just get a Cross Check. you know you want to.
I'd look for a used LHT. I had a CC and even used it on a weekend tour. The geometry just wasn't suited for touring...even with a ton of spacer that most people are running.
I'm curious as to why one of the CaadX disc models have not been mentioned. They would be close in price to the CC. Have never rode one, but a couple guys on here that own them seem to like them.
The 6 has had my interest of late.
I found this thread after 5 pages and did a bit of back reading. I'm not a shill for BD or anyone else but I'll just say I've been commuting on a Windsor Tourist for going on 4 years and its not let me down yet. Regular maintenance issues and one crappy rear wheel that I replaced last summer. The bike has been golden for me. This is actually a touring bike as the name suggests but works well as a commuter for most of the same reasons. You can run a bit wider tire and its got room for fenders. Due to back and neck issues I changed the drop bars out for a set off a hybrid bike I had and added bar extenders for different hand placement. For $599.00 with free shipping and not tax I got a steel frame touring/commuter bike and had money left over to make some changes as I saw necessary.
Yes, I think he means a level top tube, or the standard bicycle triangle. And I had the same sort of plans for my future riding as well, up to and including the D2R2. I traded for a 2012 Surly LHT last April and am having the experience of having made one of those decisions that just doesn't stop feeling great. I commute in Brooklyn NY and the only time I had an issue with the bar ends was a few times at the beginning when stopped at a light. I would occasionally knee one the shifters on the dismount and get a surprise shift when starting up again. It's the same as learning to ride clipless, if you just become very aware of it at first you then can forget about it.
I haven't bought anything from Bikes Direct, but I have bought a couple of frames from Internet retailers and then taken them in to local shops for various service. I haven't really noticed any attitude about it. When I bought my Ridley I took it in for a fitting at a shop that sells Ridleys. The fitter asked me where I got it because it's a model they don't stock. I told him where I got it and we moved on to talking about something else. The shop wouldn't have been able to come close to the price I got it for, and I couldn't have afforded the price they would have given me. The local shop got my business for the fitting, and they seemed to be satisfied with that.
Frankly, it makes me uncomfortable when the guys at the LBS give me something for free because I want their knowledge and service, not their friendship. I do value friendly interactions however, and I genuinely want their business to thrive. As such, I try to respect the relationship aspect of the business. I don't ask shop employees about parts and then go buy them online, and sometimes I do buy things there that I could get cheaper just so I can talk to them about my project and get feedback.
Totally agree with the above from Andy_K and noglider. I was just saying that in my experience buying something from an LBS for the (partial) purpose of gaining a relationship isn't always going to pan out and is probably not a very logical goal. I totally buy quick-fix and need-now components from the LBS and love chatting it up when the atmosphere is conducive. But, for big-ticket items when I have time to shop, paying double is not worth it for some supposed relationship that is going to magically appear just because I dropped some serious money.
I had a friend who bought some studded tires online this year, an exact brand/model that this LBS sells, and then took them and his bike to them for installation (I thought it was pretty bold of him). They installed them on the spot, no comments, he's now a fan of them too.
When I completed the assembly of my Windsor Tourist my shakedown ride was to my LBS. I asked them if I needed to check for anything odd and they told me to just ride it a few miles and check for loose stuff. I had a fiddly brake and some other items I just couldn't get right and I took it to them a couple of days later and they adjusted what needed to be adjusted. When the crappy rear wheel died I bought a new one from them they sure don't seem to care I bought it from BD in fact the owner looked at it and said " Hey that's a Fuji frame" I buy lots of need it now stuff from them so its not an issue where the bike came from except if you buy a bike from its free tune ups for life.
NatUp, they serve people who aren't as knowledgeable or don't want to spend as much time. As such, they can and do compete well with the online businesses. As with other purchases, there is a time/money tradeoff. If you want a good bike and you want to be told what to buy and how to use it, use the bike shop, and they'll treat you well. If you know what you want and how to build or get it, you buy online, as I do mostly. If someone who knew less than I do asked for my advice, I'd send them to a good bike shop.
alright so when is this guy buying his bike. i can only be strung along for so long here...
Also, I really appreciate the informed posts of late, specifically dealing with LBS and relationships. My goal isn't to be "friends" with them so much as it is to establish that trust and comfortability. A part of me would feel bad purchasing a bike online, after spending so much time going in and talking to and test riding bikes at my LBS. Furthermore, my LBS (not big bike shops) probably need that money more than something/someone like BikesDirect.
Another thing I've been thinking about... there are two LBS that I've been frequenting. There's one in my neighborhood, which I've only recently discovered. Good people. However, there's another directly across from my work, which is where I'm at 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I'd probably go there more often because it's more convenient. The one across from work isn't really an LBS - it's more of a chain, but they've done good work for me in the past and I trust them.
As for bikes..
The Motobecane's has better components, but lesser everything else. The Cross-Check has lesser components, but better everything else. And it's had thought and care go into why this was chosen over that. Whereas the Motobecane was probably just thrown together to match a price point.
Decisions, decisions... At any rate, I'll keep those who are interested, up to date in this thread.
Hope you all had a good holiday.
Consider the resale value as well. Moto is going to have crap resale value. You will retain better resale value with the Surly.
I'd definitely go with the Surly. They're well made. bikesdirect bikes have not impressed me. You know how the Surly will ride, and you know which size will fit.