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  1. #101
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clrux View Post
    I was actually hoping to find a 1x10.
    Converting a 2x10 to 1x10 is pretty easy. For commuting or touring it's pretty much a matter of just taking parts off since chain retention isn't really an issue for that kind of riding.

  2. #102
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
    The first thing you should know about disc brakes is that mechanical disc brakes with road levers don't give you nearly the kind of performance you usually hear associated with disc brakes. Avid BB7's do pretty good, but they aren't in the same league as even the MTB version of the BB7.
    Not in my experience. I've owned 2 DBX SuperSports,a Conquest Sport Disc,a Road Buzz,an Element,and a Ti Motobecane,plus my Dixon had road BB7's with flat bar road levers. The only issues I've had are with interrupter levers;when using just the brifters,feel and power are spot on with my flat bar lever/MTB BB7's. And my '05 BBU came with 23's and is now wearing 25's,so I can draw on a direct comparison between skinny tire setups with both MTB and road versions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
    The second thing you should know about disc brakes is that most of them squeal horrendously when they get wet. It's not always a bad thing for everyone on the block to know you're there, but it tends to be annoying for the rider.
    I put this buzzsaw-styled rotor on the front of my Ti Moto and it howled like a banshee. My Pt Reyes has BB7's with Hayes rotors for hydros and has some squeal to it. After swapping an Avid rotor onto the Ti,and with all my other disc bikes,the only noise issues I've had are the first couple stops in the rain/snow. Once the rotors get scraped clean by the pads,no issues.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/F600/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes/Novato,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  3. #103
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Not in my experience. I've owned 2 DBX SuperSports,a Conquest Sport Disc,a Road Buzz,an Element,and a Ti Motobecane,plus my Dixon had road BB7's with flat bar road levers. The only issues I've had are with interrupter levers;when using just the brifters,feel and power are spot on with my flat bar lever/MTB BB7's. And my '05 BBU came with 23's and is now wearing 25's,so I can draw on a direct comparison between skinny tire setups with both MTB and road versions.
    I'm not saying road BB7's aren't good. They are. I'm just saying that MTB BB7's with Avid Speed Dial levers were, in my experience, significantly better.

  4. #104
    bill nyecycles the sci guy's Avatar
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    just get a Cross Check. you know you want to.

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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
    just get a Cross Check. you know you want to.
    True. Haha. Still considering the Motobecane though, but researching the parts to see if the better groupset of the Motobecane is worth the other lesser parts. The toptube is a bit shorter, which I'm actually thinking may be a good thing.
    Last edited by clrux; 12-29-13 at 06:01 AM. Reason: Adding context

  6. #106
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    I'd look for a used LHT. I had a CC and even used it on a weekend tour. The geometry just wasn't suited for touring...even with a ton of spacer that most people are running.

  7. #107
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    I'm curious as to why one of the CaadX disc models have not been mentioned. They would be close in price to the CC. Have never rode one, but a couple guys on here that own them seem to like them.

    http://www.cannondale.com/catalog/pr.../category/930/
    http://www.cannondale.com/catalog/pr.../category/930/

    The 6 has had my interest of late.

  8. #108
    Senior Member DVC45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clrux View Post
    True. Haha. Still considering the Motobecane though, but researching the parts to see if the better groupset of the Motobecane is worth the other lesser parts. The toptube is a bit shorter, which I'm actually thinking may be a good thing.
    Be different.... get the Redline!


  9. #109
    stringbreaker stringbreaker's Avatar
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    I found this thread after 5 pages and did a bit of back reading. I'm not a shill for BD or anyone else but I'll just say I've been commuting on a Windsor Tourist for going on 4 years and its not let me down yet. Regular maintenance issues and one crappy rear wheel that I replaced last summer. The bike has been golden for me. This is actually a touring bike as the name suggests but works well as a commuter for most of the same reasons. You can run a bit wider tire and its got room for fenders. Due to back and neck issues I changed the drop bars out for a set off a hybrid bike I had and added bar extenders for different hand placement. For $599.00 with free shipping and not tax I got a steel frame touring/commuter bike and had money left over to make some changes as I saw necessary.
    Last edited by stringbreaker; 12-30-13 at 03:00 PM.
    (Life is too short to play crappy guitars) 2006 Raleigh Cadent 3.0, 1977 Schwinn Volare, 2010 Windsor tourist. ( I didn't fall , I attacked the floor)

  10. #110
    Junior Member kenwer's Avatar
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    Yes, I think he means a level top tube, or the standard bicycle triangle. And I had the same sort of plans for my future riding as well, up to and including the D2R2. I traded for a 2012 Surly LHT last April and am having the experience of having made one of those decisions that just doesn't stop feeling great. I commute in Brooklyn NY and the only time I had an issue with the bar ends was a few times at the beginning when stopped at a light. I would occasionally knee one the shifters on the dismount and get a surprise shift when starting up again. It's the same as learning to ride clipless, if you just become very aware of it at first you then can forget about it.

  11. #111
    Senior Member NatUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clrux View Post
    I am actually considering a Motobecane. Everything about it seems pretty ideal.. the only exception is that I don't get the rapport with my local bike shop. I'd pay them to assemble it most likely (I don't really know how to do anything other than replace brake pads) but I feel like I'd miss an opportunity for that relationship. It's not off the table though.
    Yeah, I haven't had too much luck with the whole rapport/relationship thing from LBSs. Every shop is different of course, but they are businesses and they want your money, not your friendship.

  12. #112
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatUp View Post
    Yeah, I haven't had too much luck with the whole rapport/relationship thing from LBSs. Every shop is different of course, but they are businesses and they want your money, not your friendship.
    Just because a relationship is transactional doesn't mean it's unpleasant. You get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay for something, you don't have to. If you like a bikesdirect bike, great. You can buy them. The LBS's around here are chock full of really nice people. So I pay an extra dollar for a brake cable or whatever. But I get to chat and smile and make some sort of bike joke for a minute.
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

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  13. #113
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatUp View Post
    Yeah, I haven't had too much luck with the whole rapport/relationship thing from LBSs. Every shop is different of course, but they are businesses and they want your money, not your friendship.
    If that were all there is too it then I think every shop would be happy to let you pay them to work on your mail-order bike.

    I haven't bought anything from Bikes Direct, but I have bought a couple of frames from Internet retailers and then taken them in to local shops for various service. I haven't really noticed any attitude about it. When I bought my Ridley I took it in for a fitting at a shop that sells Ridleys. The fitter asked me where I got it because it's a model they don't stock. I told him where I got it and we moved on to talking about something else. The shop wouldn't have been able to come close to the price I got it for, and I couldn't have afforded the price they would have given me. The local shop got my business for the fitting, and they seemed to be satisfied with that.

    Frankly, it makes me uncomfortable when the guys at the LBS give me something for free because I want their knowledge and service, not their friendship. I do value friendly interactions however, and I genuinely want their business to thrive. As such, I try to respect the relationship aspect of the business. I don't ask shop employees about parts and then go buy them online, and sometimes I do buy things there that I could get cheaper just so I can talk to them about my project and get feedback.

  14. #114
    Senior Member NatUp's Avatar
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    Totally agree with the above from Andy_K and noglider. I was just saying that in my experience buying something from an LBS for the (partial) purpose of gaining a relationship isn't always going to pan out and is probably not a very logical goal. I totally buy quick-fix and need-now components from the LBS and love chatting it up when the atmosphere is conducive. But, for big-ticket items when I have time to shop, paying double is not worth it for some supposed relationship that is going to magically appear just because I dropped some serious money.

  15. #115
    Senior Member arsprod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NatUp View Post
    Totally agree with the above from Andy_K and noglider. I was just saying that in my experience buying something from an LBS for the (partial) purpose of gaining a relationship isn't always going to pan out and is probably not a very logical goal. I totally buy quick-fix and need-now components from the LBS and love chatting it up when the atmosphere is conducive. But, for big-ticket items when I have time to shop, paying double is not worth it for some supposed relationship that is going to magically appear just because I dropped some serious money.
    +1, I think the good LBS's realize they can't compete with mail order and have altered their business model and attitude. I have a great relationship with several shops in my area and I've never bought any big ticket items from them. From one I get occasional service for things I either can't or don't have time to do (helps that their a block away from my office), from one I buy used parts. The folks at the first shop razz me sometimes when they recognize something new on the bike but it's all good-natured.

    I had a friend who bought some studded tires online this year, an exact brand/model that this LBS sells, and then took them and his bike to them for installation (I thought it was pretty bold of him). They installed them on the spot, no comments, he's now a fan of them too.
    I'm slow, go around

  16. #116
    stringbreaker stringbreaker's Avatar
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    When I completed the assembly of my Windsor Tourist my shakedown ride was to my LBS. I asked them if I needed to check for anything odd and they told me to just ride it a few miles and check for loose stuff. I had a fiddly brake and some other items I just couldn't get right and I took it to them a couple of days later and they adjusted what needed to be adjusted. When the crappy rear wheel died I bought a new one from them they sure don't seem to care I bought it from BD in fact the owner looked at it and said " Hey that's a Fuji frame" I buy lots of need it now stuff from them so its not an issue where the bike came from except if you buy a bike from its free tune ups for life.
    Last edited by stringbreaker; 01-05-14 at 06:33 PM.
    (Life is too short to play crappy guitars) 2006 Raleigh Cadent 3.0, 1977 Schwinn Volare, 2010 Windsor tourist. ( I didn't fall , I attacked the floor)

  17. #117
    Senior Member asmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
    personally i think the straight top tube looks better aesthetically.
    As do non-deformed testicles.

  18. #118
    bill nyecycles the sci guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmac View Post
    As do non-deformed testicles.
    psshh you can barely tell
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  19. #119
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    NatUp, they serve people who aren't as knowledgeable or don't want to spend as much time. As such, they can and do compete well with the online businesses. As with other purchases, there is a time/money tradeoff. If you want a good bike and you want to be told what to buy and how to use it, use the bike shop, and they'll treat you well. If you know what you want and how to build or get it, you buy online, as I do mostly. If someone who knew less than I do asked for my advice, I'd send them to a good bike shop.
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

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  20. #120
    bill nyecycles the sci guy's Avatar
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    alright so when is this guy buying his bike. i can only be strung along for so long here...
    Twitter@theSurlyBiker

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
    alright so when is this guy buying his bike. i can only be strung along for so long here...
    I'm waiting on a web project to clear and send me the final payment, and then I shall make my purchase. Still leaning towards the Surly Cross-Check, but haven't entirely ruled out the Motobecane.

    Also, I really appreciate the informed posts of late, specifically dealing with LBS and relationships. My goal isn't to be "friends" with them so much as it is to establish that trust and comfortability. A part of me would feel bad purchasing a bike online, after spending so much time going in and talking to and test riding bikes at my LBS. Furthermore, my LBS (not big bike shops) probably need that money more than something/someone like BikesDirect.

    Another thing I've been thinking about... there are two LBS that I've been frequenting. There's one in my neighborhood, which I've only recently discovered. Good people. However, there's another directly across from my work, which is where I'm at 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I'd probably go there more often because it's more convenient. The one across from work isn't really an LBS - it's more of a chain, but they've done good work for me in the past and I trust them.

    As for bikes..

    The Motobecane's has better components, but lesser everything else. The Cross-Check has lesser components, but better everything else. And it's had thought and care go into why this was chosen over that. Whereas the Motobecane was probably just thrown together to match a price point.

    Decisions, decisions... At any rate, I'll keep those who are interested, up to date in this thread.

    Hope you all had a good holiday.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    NatUp, they serve people who aren't as knowledgeable or don't want to spend as much time. As such, they can and do compete well with the online businesses. As with other purchases, there is a time/money tradeoff. If you want a good bike and you want to be told what to buy and how to use it, use the bike shop, and they'll treat you well. If you know what you want and how to build or get it, you buy online, as I do mostly. If someone who knew less than I do asked for my advice, I'd send them to a good bike shop.
    This is pretty good - thanks. I've learned a great deal during all this research, but I don't feel like I'd comfortably be able to make a solid online purchase (without sound advice). I only consider the Motobecane because the geometry is similar (not the same) to the Cross-Check, but has better parts. Not being able to test ride it is a big draw back though, which is why I'm still leaning towards the Surley, which I've ridden a couple of times.

  23. #123
    degeared
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    Consider the resale value as well. Moto is going to have crap resale value. You will retain better resale value with the Surly.

  24. #124
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I'd definitely go with the Surly. They're well made. bikesdirect bikes have not impressed me. You know how the Surly will ride, and you know which size will fit.
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

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  25. #125
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palu View Post
    Consider the resale value as well. Moto is going to have crap resale value. You will retain better resale value with the Surly.
    This has never factored into any of my bike purchases. If I was going to get rid of my Safari(but I never will),I'd just give it away. With all the miles I've put on it,and everything it's been put through,I've more than gotten my money's worth out of it.

    If resale is important to you,you should stick to Bromptons and Rivendells.

    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I'd definitely go with the Surly. They're well made. bikesdirect bikes have not impressed me. You know how the Surly will ride, and you know which size will fit.
    I agree with the sizing,but not with the BD comment. My Ti Motobecane was one of the best bikes I've ever owned. It's the bike besides the Safari that I would never sell(too bad some dirt bag stole it). I've got a couple friends who have CC's,and I've had a couple come into my clinic. I've also got a regular who comes to my clinic with a CXX. Since I know how bikes fit me,if I had to choose between the CC and the CXX,it would be the CXX hands down.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/F600/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes/Novato,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

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