Chainless bikes the new future?
01-27-14, 09:04 AM
#51
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Shaft drive bikes have been around for 100 years. They are not as efficient or as light as a chain. To have multiple gears one must add in the inefficiency of a internally geared hub. Relatively slow and heavy. Some owners say the weather protection is not very good.
Every once in a while someone "discovers" shaft drive, or belt drive again. Not new.
Every once in a while someone "discovers" shaft drive, or belt drive again. Not new.
Last edited by 2manybikes; 01-27-14 at 09:07 AM.
01-27-14, 09:15 AM
#52
Senior Member
They do have enormous power pulses, like a bicycle. And the belt absorbs and returns some of the pulse smoothing things out a bit.
Belts currently have to be wider for a given amount of power transmitted.
BMW uses them on their 650 and 800 models, similar lifespan as a chain, however quieter and no lubing.
Some automotive CVT's use a "belt" but not what we usually think of as a belt.
Frankly, bicycles are currently highly evolved. Progress will be, at best, incremental and along the same lines as we currently see...
Belts currently have to be wider for a given amount of power transmitted.
BMW uses them on their 650 and 800 models, similar lifespan as a chain, however quieter and no lubing.
Some automotive CVT's use a "belt" but not what we usually think of as a belt.
Frankly, bicycles are currently highly evolved. Progress will be, at best, incremental and along the same lines as we currently see...
01-27-14, 09:45 AM
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But perhaps Frank Patterson said it best.
Not new.
01-27-14, 05:30 PM
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My 95cui FXDX has more torque than a 'Busa,and my 25k mile belt has tons of life left. And there's a fair number of 120cui customs running belts with no issues.
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01-27-14, 06:20 PM
#55
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I know this will be met with the usual diverging opinions one finds in a forum, but, oh well . . .One of the problems that I had in the first gen Sussex, Dynamic seem to have rectified in the later versions. After having both, I cannot see the shaft ever wearing out in the bikes realistic life. The bevel gears in the first gen unit are it achilles heal. If the newer Sussex unit has the teeth/meshing issues resolved, I believe the shaft will outlive a chain, easily. Dynamic warranties the shaft for life on their new bikes. I would like to check a new Dynamic out. The one with the five bolt bottom end. Some of their hybrid models appear to still have the 3 bolt version which I would say is useless from the factory. I donated mine to a neighborhood bike co-op in Florida after I got out of it what I could.
I couldn't get two winters out of a chain in Vermont, but I feel I could get that with a shaftee if it was put together properly
I couldn't get two winters out of a chain in Vermont, but I feel I could get that with a shaftee if it was put together properly
01-27-14, 06:22 PM
#56
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Stock, they are way under 100hp.
600 cc stock, 117 hp last I checked. Lighter then a harley's front end.
High horse power bikes are in the 180hp range stock, epa stock.
With the dollars required to get a Harley to 100, you can get those over 300...
It's just physics...
Like comparing my Disc Trucker to a CAD 10...
But this discussion is for a different board.
Back to Bikes, there are belt drives on adventure bikes paired with Rohloffs...
https://www.google.com/search?q=belt+drive+rohloff&rlz=1C1LENN_enUS488US488&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&s a=X&ei=MPnmUv-_K4qqsQTd9IGoAw&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1821&bih=902&dpr=0.75
For rides where failure is not an option.
Last edited by Null66; 01-27-14 at 06:28 PM.
01-27-14, 06:24 PM
#57
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YepHDs also have suspensions that bikes dont have. That can intermittently stress the belt in some situations.
01-27-14, 07:15 PM
#58
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I cannot see the shaft ever wearing out in the bikes realistic life. The bevel gears in the first gen unit are it achilles heal. If the newer Sussex unit has the teeth/meshing issues resolved, I believe the shaft will outlive a chain, easily. Dynamic warranties the shaft for life on their new bikes.
Replacing the shaft-drive gears for $90 every 8000 miles would cost several times as much per mile as I'm currently spending on drive-train maintenance of a conventional derailleur system.
01-28-14, 05:31 PM
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I don't race,I live in the real world. My Harley has all the power I need to pass a line of semi's on the interstate or a camper on a hill,with a passenger,and still give me over 40MPG.
Around the DC area,using all that HP is going to get you jailed;VA in particular is clamping down on high speed. Friend of mine spent several $100's on a lawyer to plead down a reckless ticket so he wouldn't lose his clearance.
Around the DC area,using all that HP is going to get you jailed;VA in particular is clamping down on high speed. Friend of mine spent several $100's on a lawyer to plead down a reckless ticket so he wouldn't lose his clearance.
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01-28-14, 05:58 PM
#60
Banned
And that's why they win SO many races...
Stock, they are way under 100hp.
600 cc stock, 117 hp last I checked. Lighter then a harley's front end.
High horse power bikes are in the 180hp range stock, epa stock.
With the dollars required to get a Harley to 100, you can get those over 300...
It's just physics...
Like comparing my Disc Trucker to a CAD 10...
But this discussion is for a different board.
Back to Bikes, there are belt drives on adventure bikes paired with Rohloffs...
https://www.google.com/search?q=belt+drive+rohloff&rlz=1C1LENN_enUS488US488&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&s a=X&ei=MPnmUv-_K4qqsQTd9IGoAw&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1821&bih=902&dpr=0.75
For rides where failure is not an option.
Stock, they are way under 100hp.
600 cc stock, 117 hp last I checked. Lighter then a harley's front end.
High horse power bikes are in the 180hp range stock, epa stock.
With the dollars required to get a Harley to 100, you can get those over 300...
It's just physics...
Like comparing my Disc Trucker to a CAD 10...
But this discussion is for a different board.
Back to Bikes, there are belt drives on adventure bikes paired with Rohloffs...
https://www.google.com/search?q=belt+drive+rohloff&rlz=1C1LENN_enUS488US488&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&s a=X&ei=MPnmUv-_K4qqsQTd9IGoAw&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1821&bih=902&dpr=0.75
For rides where failure is not an option.
However, I've seen a Rohloff achieve 200.000km when used within specifications.
01-29-14, 07:07 AM
#61
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Here's the bike Denmark has selected for their new national bikeshare system.
01-29-14, 07:54 AM
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Here's the bike Denmark has selected for their new national bikeshare system.
01-29-14, 09:10 AM
#63
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Well, I certainly wouldn't buy one of these!
Third generation bike share has gone from almost nothing in 2006 to over 675 of the world's cities at the end of 2013. Some of the managers of those new systems are betting on shaft drive - an idea most (including me) thought died before 1920 - to deliver the best service; many others are sticking with chain drive. We get to sit back and see how it works out over the next several years. Interesting times!
Third generation bike share has gone from almost nothing in 2006 to over 675 of the world's cities at the end of 2013. Some of the managers of those new systems are betting on shaft drive - an idea most (including me) thought died before 1920 - to deliver the best service; many others are sticking with chain drive. We get to sit back and see how it works out over the next several years. Interesting times!
Last edited by tcs; 01-29-14 at 09:22 AM.
01-29-14, 03:03 PM
#64
Senior Member
I agree there is not much innovation in bicycle design. That is in large part because the buyers are conservative and generally wont buy something that is altogether different, like a shaft drive. The only way they will, is if it wins races. (Even though racing bikes are ridiculous for the average person. Its like we are all driving around in ferraris.)
I think, if dynamic are to mainstream the driveshaft, they need to win races. I doubt they can win the tour de france with a driveshaft, but they might have a chance in cyclocross. That is, if it is, in fact, a better technology. I think they should make a cyclocross model and start giving it to riders. It will be heavier, but the advantage of a clean drivetrain might give the dynamic riders the edge.
Or hell, MTB races would be an even better application.
I have to believe that the shaft drive is actually not so hot, and not able to compete on a professional level, which is why dynamic has not pursued this strategy.
I think, if dynamic are to mainstream the driveshaft, they need to win races. I doubt they can win the tour de france with a driveshaft, but they might have a chance in cyclocross. That is, if it is, in fact, a better technology. I think they should make a cyclocross model and start giving it to riders. It will be heavier, but the advantage of a clean drivetrain might give the dynamic riders the edge.
Or hell, MTB races would be an even better application.
I have to believe that the shaft drive is actually not so hot, and not able to compete on a professional level, which is why dynamic has not pursued this strategy.
01-29-14, 06:12 PM
#65
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Here's the bike Denmark has selected for their new national bikeshare system.
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04-15-14, 04:35 AM
#66
contiuniously variable
Any thoughts on N360 hub with shaft drive? Yes i know it wouldn't be THE most efficient setup, but i'm more curious about not having to coddle it like a chain with constant oiling & tension adjustments etc or the problems i've seen with belt drives. I think personally a good gearing setup and very stiff drive shaft might diminish some problems folks on here have mention with tooth wear and shaft flexing.....??
- Andy
- Andy
04-15-14, 06:00 AM
#67
Senior Member
Here's the bike Denmark has selected for their new national bikeshare system.
04-15-14, 09:54 AM
#68
Banned
XR 750 was the last motorcycle Harley tried to be competitive with , and that was flat track racing ..
now they just concentrate on making big bikes that people buy and ride , and leave the racing
to the Japanese and Italian companies .. and the Czechs ..
now they just concentrate on making big bikes that people buy and ride , and leave the racing
to the Japanese and Italian companies .. and the Czechs ..
04-15-14, 02:46 PM
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04-15-14, 02:52 PM
#70
Banned
Handicapping so they are just competing with each other .. won't see any in the IOM TT .. or Daytona..
or I dont recall any in years..
oh well , restrictor plate motorcycles .. To be more about driver skill since the mechanics had limits set .
or I dont recall any in years..
oh well , restrictor plate motorcycles .. To be more about driver skill since the mechanics had limits set .
04-15-14, 04:43 PM
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You can do your own Googling.
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04-15-14, 04:53 PM
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I know this will be met with the usual diverging opinions one finds in a forum, but, oh well . . .One of the problems that I had in the first gen Sussex, Dynamic seem to have rectified in the later versions. After having both, I cannot see the shaft ever wearing out in the bikes realistic life. The bevel gears in the first gen unit are it achilles heal. If the newer Sussex unit has the teeth/meshing issues resolved, I believe the shaft will outlive a chain, easily. Dynamic warranties the shaft for life on their new bikes. I would like to check a new Dynamic out. The one with the five bolt bottom end. Some of their hybrid models appear to still have the 3 bolt version which I would say is useless from the factory. I donated mine to a neighborhood bike co-op in Florida after I got out of it what I could.
I couldn't get two winters out of a chain in Vermont, but I feel I could get that with a shaftee if it was put together properly
I couldn't get two winters out of a chain in Vermont, but I feel I could get that with a shaftee if it was put together properly
04-15-14, 04:58 PM
#73
Banned
OK got race results ? I've not been following the FIM race season results
Qatar 23rd of last month FIM MotoGP Race Results From Losail International Circuit (Updated)
Daytona to 20th place https://www.motorcycle-usa.com/921/18...ults-2014.aspx
dont see any HDs
https://www.motogp.com/en/teams/MotoGP
no team using them
but, HD they sell a lot and they are on the street passin thru town all weekend . just touring along .
Qatar 23rd of last month FIM MotoGP Race Results From Losail International Circuit (Updated)
Daytona to 20th place https://www.motorcycle-usa.com/921/18...ults-2014.aspx
dont see any HDs
https://www.motogp.com/en/teams/MotoGP
no team using them
but, HD they sell a lot and they are on the street passin thru town all weekend . just touring along .
Last edited by fietsbob; 04-15-14 at 05:06 PM.
04-16-14, 08:12 AM
#74
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Buell were racing with some success in the US on the pro and club circuits. The Harley spec class linked to earlier was actually started in Europe and later adopted in the US. What does that have to do with anything?
OK got race results ? I've not been following the FIM race season results
Qatar 23rd of last month FIM MotoGP Race Results From Losail International Circuit (Updated)
Daytona to 20th place Daytona 200 Results 2014 - Motorcycle USA
dont see any HDs
motogp.com · MotoGP Teams
no team using them
but, HD they sell a lot and they are on the street passin thru town all weekend . just touring along .
Qatar 23rd of last month FIM MotoGP Race Results From Losail International Circuit (Updated)
Daytona to 20th place Daytona 200 Results 2014 - Motorcycle USA
dont see any HDs
motogp.com · MotoGP Teams
no team using them
but, HD they sell a lot and they are on the street passin thru town all weekend . just touring along .
04-16-14, 08:44 AM
#75
Banned
Nada, just sayin' not a company with a presence where the Grand Prix level is these days ..
in the past Hudson won Daytona , but they were racing on the beach, then ..
in the past Hudson won Daytona , but they were racing on the beach, then ..
Last edited by fietsbob; 04-16-14 at 08:48 AM.
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