unaleona

Thanks! Although it wasn't 35 miles in one ride, but in three days of riding. I'll take some credit but don't give me too much! I usually do between 9 and 15 miles in a day of commuting and extra trips.

unaleona

Thanks for the tip! I think the used bike store where I bought this replaced the brake pads, but I'll check with them. I'll also be asking them about these potential changes, see what they can do!

unaleona

Great to hear about someone else's experience getting used to drop bars. I kind of want to force myself to learn to deal with the hoods for now, but I'll keep in mind that interruptors may be a great addition for short stopping in weird city traffic situations.

PatrickGSR94

When I first started out on my road bike, I had the bars rotated too high. I thought getting the hoods higher was a good thing. But then I never could reach the drops very well. I felt like I didn't have much leverage on the brake levers from the hoods, but then I couldn't reach them in the drops very well, either.

Finally I rotated my bars down a bit, to bring the ends of the bars closer to level with the ground. Reaching the drops became much easier, as did the brake levers (and shifting since I have the combination "brifters").

Also, when I started out I tended to try to brake from the hoods using only my index and middle fingers. I believe that was part of my problem. If I apply 3 fingers on the brake lever (adding my ring fingers) I can get more force on the levers from the hoods, and braking is much easier.

e0richt

I tend to like the bars rotated high as its more comfortable to ride with, but I also have to admit that its harder to get to the drops for a strong break... with my winter bike I have riser bars with bar ends which I have grown accustomed to... I am actually considering replacing my road bars with a set of moustache bars which would give that bar end feel but also allow for a strong grip on the break levers...

unaleona

So are my bars rotated high? Can you tell from looking at the picture? I was more thinking about moving the bars higher by changing the height of the stem, or moving them closer by having a shorter stem. If I can get really comfortable on the hoods, I'm not super concerned about not being comfortable in the drops. Maybe my comfort with the drops will change as I ride more on these bars, but for city riding, or for riding on busy trails like around here, I don't often feel the need to really get down and increase speed. I'd rather be fully comfortable where I spend the most time, on the hoods.

PatrickGSR94

They look a tad high to me (rotation-wise) but that's purely subjective. Normally this type of bars is not associated with being even with or higher than the saddle. My opinion is that upright riding and drop bars don't really go together. Something more swept back is usually more suited with upright riding. But again that's just me. No one but you can tell you what is comfortable.

unaleona

Hmm, interesting. I've definitely read about/seen people using drop bars even with the saddle, and to me that doesn't feel "upright" but as you say, different people find different things comfortable. Thanks for your opinion!

PatrickGSR94

What type of stem is it? 1" threaded/quill? Threadless?

My wife's mixte came with a 1 1/8" threadless steer tube and adjustable stem, but the bars weren't quite high enough for upright riding. So I got her a stem riser which brought the bars up another 4 inches or so. Had to replace the cables in the process to make them longer, but all in all it was worth it.

I don't have a pic of it with the riser installed, but this is the bike/wife:

unaleona

Can't say that I know the answer to which kind of stem, but I'll look when I get back to the bike. I don't want to raise them as dramatically as four inches. I haven't measured, but I think they are less than an inch below the level of the seat, and I think I'd prefer if they were level. I don't want to lower the seat as it felt too low before I raised it to this height. I'm committed to the drop bar, non-upright position, but the hoods do feel kind of far away. Maybe I'll stretch out and get a bit more flexible.

Nice bike!

noglider 

The hand itself has more leverage when the fingers are closer to the palm, so tightening the brake will not help; it will make it worse.

lostarchitect 

To add a counterpoint to that, there is something of a movement to use taller stems with drop bars and get the bars up higher. Not for racing, of course, but most people don't race. If you check out the bikes on Rivendell's site, you see them almost all set up that way. Personally I like drop bars to be about even with the saddle. Here's an example from Rivendell of higher drop bars.

unaleona

Yes, exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of. Who knows, I may become a racer someday, but I'm certainly not now. And not on my commute full of unexpected drivers/bikers/pedestrians popping out of unexpected places. I guess this brings me back to the question I asked on the last page, but that got somewhat obscured in a flurry of posts: does it make more sense to fiddle around with the bar height/stem reach first, and see if that gives me more leverage on the brakes from the hoods, then think about changing for a dual caliper brake after that? Or just do the brakes first, and keep testing out the bars for a bit longer and then start experimenting with height independently from brake function. See below quote for the way I asked the question earlier.

agmetal

It really made a huge difference. I went from not liking drop bars at all, to quite liking drops with modern-style hoods and interruptor levers. I'm in the process of building up a single-speed backup to my Volpe, starting with an old 10-speed that a friend gave me, and I put a full complement of modern levers on it. I did something similar with another old 10-speed I rebuilt for a friend last summer.

My current project:


The one I did last summer:

jyl

Having your bars a couple inches higher or lower won't make much (any?) difference to your ability to brake from the hoods. Those are independent issues.

To adjust the bar position, you would use a different stem.

The classic solution is a tall quill stem like https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...6-0-clamp.html or a riser quill stem like https://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-2...FUOSfgodWHcAuQ I think the tall stem is better-looking than the riser stem and the horizontal part of the stem is a useful place to mount a light or computer, but either works.

There are also adjustable quill stems like https://www.amazon.com/Kalloy-Adjusta.../dp/B003IR73NY which have a decidedly non-classic vibe but make it easy to experiment with different handlebar positions and swap handlebars.

For determining what length stem you need (length is the horizontal dimension), an old rule of thumb for drop bars is to ride on the hoods and look down at the front hub, if the tops of the bar appear to be behind the hub axle line then get a longer stem; if it appears to be ahead then get a shorter stem. But this is just a rule of thumb, there are other rules of thumb too based on your forearm dimensions e.g.https://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/sc...-bike-fitting/

None of those are the end-all-and-be-all. The real test is how you feel after longer rides on the bike, after you've becom acclimated to riding it. If cramped for space and always pushing your butt back in the saddle, longer stem (or, sometimes, move your saddle back); if stretching to to point of fatigue and pain, shorter stem.

Drop bar or upright bar (NorthRoads, porteurs, etc)? The advantages of drops are multiple hand and wrist positions, and a range of upper body positions from low in the drops to high on the tops. When you're just riding along, your hands might be on the hoods. For upright relaxed riding, hands on the tops, perhaps with inline (interrupter) brake levers. To go faster or push through a headwind, hands in the hooks or on the drops which gets your upper body low for less aero resistance. Upright bars have one or at most two positions, and if you want to get low you have to bend your arms sharply into a tiring crouch. For shorter and easier rides, none of this matters much.

Oh, don't forget to add good lights, either on your bike or on your helmet or both. As a commuter who needs to be seen by drivers, that is really important.

JBC353

+1 to the adjustable stem for experimentation. I keep that Kalloy adjustable stem around just for fitting bars and stems to rider. Once it's dialed in I install an appropriately sized stem. Leona, just by eyeball your bars look pretty low and far away. It also looks like it would be tough for a small hand to get good purchase on those levers. BTW the bike looks great.

noglider 

Handlebar height and brakes are different experiments. You can do them independently, in either order.

jyl

The thing is, when braking from the hoods, your hand isn't doing a simple close/squeeze. At least for my brakes and hands, it is a weird combination of close/squeeze + pivoting your fingers sideways relative to your palm + twisting your wrist. To make it worse, your strongest fingers (index+ring) don't have the opportunity to do that much, your weakest fingers (ring+pinky) have to do most of the work. And your fingers are acting on the upper and middle part of the brake lever's blade, rather than the lower (tip) part where they would have greater leverage. Braking from the hooks, you can place your index + middle + ring fingers on the lower part of the blade and simply close/squeeze.

Of course, in an emergency, we can usually exert more force than we'd normally do.

Maybe we need a brake lever blade with an auxiliary, roughly horizontal, blade specifically for braking from the hoods.

noglider 

Good points, jyl. My wife and I took a couple of rides this weekend. She rode her new (to her) All-City Macho Man for the first two times, beyond the test ride. She did keep her hands on the hoods, and she braked from there. But the bike has Paul V brakes, which require very little pressure. That's why it works for her.

unaleona, you can't put V brakes on your bike because you need studs brazed on the fork and frame to install them. Dual pivot brakes also don't require much pressure, which is why I recommend them.

jyl

Tom, will centerpull Mafac racers install on unaleona's frame, and do they require less hand pressure than dual-pivots? If so, I may have a set she can have. She'd need the cable housing stops, but those are cheaper than new brake calipers.

That presumes that unaleona decides she needs better brakes, and likes the way Mafacs look. Pictures all over the web, including https://www.google.com/imgres?start=1...CKIBEK0DMDQ4ZA

CrankyOne

This is one reason, among many, that many women prefer upright bars since they place your hands in a more natural position and make it much easier to pull on the brake levers.

CrankyOne

Just curious, why?

unaleona

Thanks for the tips, especially the stem explanations. I'll run that stem length test tomorrow to see how it goes. In terms of the general feel test from riding around this week, my hands naturally fall an inch or two behind the rubber of the hoods. That makes me think I need the bars up and back. I rode the bike in the snow this morning, and it made me very convinced that the first order of business is figuring out better braking. The bike does not have adequate stopping capacity (at least not for me with my hands) at this point, and that's just dangerous.

I do have great lights, especially my fancy front Cygolite Metro 360 lumens. I feel like a car with a headlight! My rear light is mounted to the rear rack for extra visibility and is very bright.

unaleona

Good to know! Seems like brakes need to happen right away (see above snow-braking power comment), and bars are a bit less urgent. I'm not in pain from the reach, and it would be good to see how my grip on the drops feels when I'm not busy trying to contort my hand to reach the levers.

unaleona

This makes so much sense to me, and explains what I've been figuring out these past few days while experimenting. Unfortunately, the brake levers feel so far away, it's difficult to even wrap my ring and pinky fingers around the levers. And then the index and ring can barely get and leverage. Braking from the hooks is also difficult, the levers feel even further away. I'm definitely going to need to make some changes!