Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Senior Member westrid_dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    My Bikes
    Surly Ogre, Novara Express, Yeti 575
    Posts
    95
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Commuter / Touring Bike - Surly Disk Trucker or Ogre?

    Apologies in advance if this has already been covered specifically, but a search in both the Commuting and Touring forums didn't result in a lot of comparison information. And also apologies for posting this in both forums, excuse the bad form if this is frowned upon.

    Here is what I am looking for in my next bike, and I would like advice from those of you with experience with the Surly Disk Trucker and/or the Ogre.

    I will be using this bike primarily as my year-round daily commuter. I currently have a 5mi - 25 mi commute each way, depending upon how far I want to ride before and/or after work. I carry my gear in Ortliebs, and would like a bike I can outfit appropriately for winter riding, specifically with fenders and tires that can get me through some snow and ice if necessary. Here in Boise, ID we don't typically get a lot of snow in the valley that actually stays on the ground, but for example, during this holiday season there was about a 2-week period where I couldn't (safely) ride the roads with my current commuter because of the packed snow / ice in the bike lanes and MUPs. I also plan on outfitting my new bike with a dynohub / light set. Commuting will be the main purpose for this bike, however, I do also want to be able to use it for self-contained touring, requiring front and rear racks / panniers. While all of my touring in the past has been on the pavement I am definitely interested in checking out some of the many off-road trails and fire roads that are within the state. I'm not necessarily envisioning doing much touring on single-track, but definitely would like a bike that can handle rougher terrain.

    I do plan on checking out each of these bikes and test riding, of course. From what I can see on Surly's website it appears each of these could meet my needs. It looks like the Ogre could give me more versatility in terms of choices for winter / off-road tires. I'm just not sure what the downside would be in comparison to what seems to be a more tried and true model in the LHT / Disk Trucker line.

    Thoughts / comments?

    Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    328
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Disc Trucker can take 35c studded tires, which are enough for packed snow and ice. But it bugs me that all Surly's disc forks have traditional rear-facing dropouts. Consensus seems to be that disc brakes tend to pull wheels backwards, so forward-facing dropouts like Salsa & many others use are better & safer.

  3. #3
    Senior Member DVC45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    My Bikes
    Schwinn Paramount '91, Downtube Nova and I want more! :)
    Posts
    3,655
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    LHT Disc Trucker has no bosses to mount canti's or V brakes, should you need them in emergency or for whatever reason.

    Consider the Troll also. 26" tires are widely available worldwide. In case you plan to tour outside the USA.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    My Bikes
    Salsa Fargo, One-One Inbred 29er, Blue Norcross
    Posts
    312
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think the biggest question is if you pan to run drop bars or flat bars. Personally, I can't stand flat bars for any significant length of time (they tend to lock you into one hand position, which is a no-go for long distances), so all my bikes have drops, including my mountain bike which has Salsa Woodchippers. If you want drops, the trucker will be better out of the box. You would need to play with fit (and likely go a frame size down) if you want them on the Ogre. If you want flat or riser bars, then the top tube length of the Ogre would likely better accommodate you. Both bikes can fit good studded tires.

    As far as fire roads, etc, I have read of people stuffing 1.9" tires into their LHT or Cross Check (can't remember which) without fenders. That should be enough for most rough roads, as long as you aren't riding purely fire roads. Of course, if you get the itch to do extensive unimproved road (or singletrack) touring, you may wish for more space, if only for smoothing the ride a bit, if not for grippier tires. I might also throw out the Salsa Fargo as an option if you want drops and wide tires; the base model is in the price range of the Ogre.

  5. #5
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was in the same boat as you and decided upon a Salsa Vaya. Not sure if it is in the price range that you are looking in, but found that it can accommodate large tires (mine came stock with 40c, running 35 now), fenders, lots of dropouts, and go on gravel/dirt (and single track if you are daring). Been using it as my commuter for almost a year now and have 0 complaints.

  6. #6
    Senior Member AusTexMurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    South Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    2010 Origin8 CX700, 2003 Cannondale Backroads Cross Country, 1997 Trek mtn steel frame converted commuter/tourer, 1983 Univega Sportour, 2010 Surly LHT, Others...
    Posts
    615
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Troll w/ 26" wheels on Big Apples/Big Bens for 3 seasons, my vote.

  7. #7
    Intrepid Bicycle Commuter AlmostGreenGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Upstate New York
    My Bikes
    Salsa Vaya, Trek 4300, Sirrus Sport, '96 Diamondback Topanga
    Posts
    621
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm with kloe120. Broaden your horizons and look into the Salsa Vaya. I've used one for almost 6,000 miles of commuting over the last two years. It's a great long range commuter/light touring bike, that was made for racing on old fire roads and such. Tons of dropouts and mounting points and takes wide tires. A great ride.

    If I had to go Surly, I guess I'd go with the LHT. Sounds a little less lively than I'd prefer for a commuter though.



  8. #8
    Senior Member westrid_dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    My Bikes
    Surly Ogre, Novara Express, Yeti 575
    Posts
    95
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fotooutdoors View Post
    I think the biggest question is if you pan to run drop bars or flat bars. Personally, I can't stand flat bars for any significant length of time (they tend to lock you into one hand position, which is a no-go for long distances), so all my bikes have drops, including my mountain bike which has Salsa Woodchippers. If you want drops, the trucker will be better out of the box. You would need to play with fit (and likely go a frame size down) if you want them on the Ogre. If you want flat or riser bars, then the top tube length of the Ogre would likely better accommodate you. Both bikes can fit good studded tires.

    As far as fire roads, etc, I have read of people stuffing 1.9" tires into their LHT or Cross Check (can't remember which) without fenders. That should be enough for most rough roads, as long as you aren't riding purely fire roads. Of course, if you get the itch to do extensive unimproved road (or singletrack) touring, you may wish for more space, if only for smoothing the ride a bit, if not for grippier tires. I might also throw out the Salsa Fargo as an option if you want drops and wide tires; the base model is in the price range of the Ogre.
    That's a very relevant question, fotooutdoors. And one I don't know if I can answer until I can test ride both bikes. My current commuter, a Novara Express, has flat bars with bar-ends and for the most part I've been comfortable, even on some longer rides. My mountain bike has flats bars and back in the 80's I did some cross-country tours on a flat-bar mountain bike, but I do certainly understand and appreciate the benefits of drop bars.

    Quote Originally Posted by kloe120 View Post
    I was in the same boat as you and decided upon a Salsa Vaya. Not sure if it is in the price range that you are looking in, but found that it can accommodate large tires (mine came stock with 40c, running 35 now), fenders, lots of dropouts, and go on gravel/dirt (and single track if you are daring). Been using it as my commuter for almost a year now and have 0 complaints.

    I really haven't given much thought to anything other than the Surly models, for a couple of reasons, including a discount that's available to me on Surlys. I looked at Salsa's web page. The Fargo 3 and Vaya 3 are close to the Surly models spec and price-wise. It doesn't appear that there are any dealers here in Boise, though. Check that, it looks like there are a couple of local dealers. I will go take a look just to see what they have.

    Thank you for the feedback. As I said, I need to look at these in person and ride them. Any additional comments are welcomed!
    Last edited by westrid_dad; 01-22-14 at 01:58 PM. Reason: update comment

  9. #9
    Senior Member westrid_dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    My Bikes
    Surly Ogre, Novara Express, Yeti 575
    Posts
    95
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostGreenGuy View Post
    I'm with kloe120. Broaden your horizons and look into the Salsa Vaya. I've used one for almost 6,000 miles of commuting over the last two years. It's a great long range commuter/light touring bike, that was made for racing on old fire roads and such. Tons of dropouts and mounting points and takes wide tires. A great ride.

    If I had to go Surly, I guess I'd go with the LHT. Sounds a little less lively than I'd prefer for a commuter though.



    Thanks, that's a sharp looking bike. I'll take a look at the local Salsa dealer to see what they have on the floor for comparison.

  10. #10
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Beaverton, OR
    My Bikes
    2013 Kona Jake, 2008 Kona Major Jake, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, 1999 Kona Muni Mula, 2012 Ridley Excalibur, 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker
    Posts
    6,811
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by westrid_dad View Post
    I really haven't given much thought to anything other than the Surly models, for a couple of reasons, including a discount that's available to me on Surlys. I looked at Salsa's web page. The Fargo 3 and Vaya 3 are close to the Surly models spec and price-wise. It doesn't appear that there are any dealers here in Boise, though. Check that, it looks like there are a couple of local dealers. I will go take a look just to see what they have.
    Salsa and Surly are both QBP brands. I would think any dealer that would give you a discount on one would give you a discount on the other (except where the discount was limited to in stock items). At the very least I'm certain that any dealer that could sell you one could also sell you the other.

    I've got the non-disc version of the Trucker with 26" wheels. It's very nice. Also note that the 26" version (disc or not) has more tire clearance than the 700c versions (at least according to spec).

    I also have a disc-equipped Kona Jake. For daily commuting I prefer the Jake, mostly because of the gearing. The Trucker is typically geared lower and mine is geared much lower, which is great for a relaxed ride and is the reason I have the Trucker, but if you like to sprint and what not then that's not such a good thing. The bar end shifters also tend to reinforce this difference between relaxed and aggressive riding styles.

  11. #11
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    dropped and lost in Washington DC
    Posts
    5,828
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by peterw_diy View Post
    But it bugs me that all Surly's disc forks have traditional rear-facing dropouts. Consensus seems to be that disc brakes tend to pull wheels backwards, so forward-facing dropouts like Salsa & many others use are better & safer.
    Are you talking about the forks or the dropouts? The Disc Trucker has vertical dropouts.

    westrid_dad: I'd also throw the Novara Safari out there. I've got an older model that has been put through hell and it's been stone axe reliable. Multiple winters,several blizzards,grocery hauling,and even abused playing polo. You'd have to add discs to the current model,but the frame/fork have the mounts and the hubs are disc compatible,so you'd just need the calipers,rotors,and new cables. I much prefer the trekking bar to drops,you get more hand positions and can still get aero. The larger models are 700c and come with 42's which I believe is wider than the Truckers can handle. Also,if you're an REI member they offer a 20% off coupon every Spring,and if you decide you don't like it you can just take it back.
    Last edited by dynaryder; 01-22-14 at 04:12 PM.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    328
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Are you talking about the forks or the dropouts? The Disc Trucker has vertical dropouts.
    The forks. The fork dropouts ("fork ends"?) face backwards so the front brake should tend to pull the wheel out of the fork. I've seen at least one recent disc trucker blog mention that. The blogger blamed himself for not cranking the QR tighter but ISTM Surly could've avoided the problem with a design like Salsa's.
    Last edited by peterw_diy; 01-22-14 at 04:53 PM.

  13. #13
    slow and steady
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    47
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd vote for the Ogre. I have one and it used for commuting, touring, and winter riding. Once the snow melts, I tend to commute on a mountain bike, so I can ride trails after work on the way home, but if I could only keep one bike, it would be the Ogre. With the Jones loop bar, there are a lot of hand positions, and the bike really can do it all from singletrack bikepacking to fully loaded road touring, and everything in between.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Garner, NC 27529
    My Bikes
    Built up DT, 2007 Fuji tourer (donor bike, RIP), 1995 1220 Trek
    Posts
    1,165
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by peterw_diy View Post
    The forks. The fork dropouts ("fork ends"?) face backwards so the front brake should tend to pull the wheel out of the fork. I've seen at least one recent disc trucker blog mention that. The blogger blamed himself for not cranking the QR tighter but ISTM Surly could've avoided the problem with a design like Salsa's.
    I wondered about this...

    Could they no just mount the caliper on the front of the fork? Better cooling?

  15. #15
    Senior Member megalowmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    North County San Diego
    Posts
    1,542
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Vaya is really nice. Great job.

  16. #16
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    West Village, New York City
    My Bikes
    too many
    Posts
    18,866
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I say look into used bikes. There's so much you can do with them. With the money you save, you can customize it in great ways.
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

    Tom Reingold
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  17. #17
    Senior Member westrid_dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    My Bikes
    Surly Ogre, Novara Express, Yeti 575
    Posts
    95
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
    Salsa and Surly are both QBP brands. I would think any dealer that would give you a discount on one would give you a discount on the other (except where the discount was limited to in stock items). At the very least I'm certain that any dealer that could sell you one could also sell you the other.
    Thanks, Andy. I did confirm while I can order a Salsa, it wouldn't be at a discount. The Vaya and Fargo models do look really nice, though, I'd say they may be more of the "thoroughbred" class versus the "work horse" class, like what I'm looking for?


    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    westrid_dad: I'd also throw the Novara Safari out there. I've got an older model that has been put through hell and it's been stone axe reliable. Multiple winters,several blizzards,grocery hauling,and even abused playing polo. You'd have to add discs to the current model,but the frame/fork have the mounts and the hubs are disc compatible,so you'd just need the calipers,rotors,and new cables. I much prefer the trekking bar to drops,you get more hand positions and can still get aero. The larger models are 700c and come with 42's which I believe is wider than the Truckers can handle. Also,if you're an REI member they offer a 20% off coupon every Spring,and if you decide you don't like it you can just take it back.
    Dynaryder, I have looked at the Safari previously. I already have two other Novara bikes and am looking to diversify a little.


    Quote Originally Posted by mtndragon View Post
    I'd vote for the Ogre. I have one and it used for commuting, touring, and winter riding. Once the snow melts, I tend to commute on a mountain bike, so I can ride trails after work on the way home, but if I could only keep one bike, it would be the Ogre. With the Jones loop bar, there are a lot of hand positions, and the bike really can do it all from singletrack bikepacking to fully loaded road touring, and everything in between.
    Thanks, mtndragon. That is a good vote of confidence in the Ogre's capabilities. I'm eager to check out the fit and compare the feel and comfort of the Jones bar in comparison to the more traditional drop bar on the Disk Trucker.


    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I say look into used bikes. There's so much you can do with them. With the money you save, you can customize it in great ways.
    noglider, I've been checking Craigslist but haven't yet found that perfect posting that calls my name, if you know what I mean. For me, it averages about 10 years in between new bikes for me so I don't mind spending the extra money for something new, plus there are discounts available to me to help ease some of the sticker shock. btw, I just want to add that I enjoy reading your perspective on commuting in other threads on this forum. We have a daughter that is living in Manhattan and I've visited her several times this past year. I'm not sure if I'm in awe of the cyclists I see navigating the city streets or if I fear for their lives. Its definitely a different environment than what we have here in Boise! I grew up outside of Boston and did make a few bike trips into the city, but it still seems that was a lot less stressful and manageable than what I envision it is like in NYC. That feels more like orchestrated chaos on wheels?

  18. #18
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    West Village, New York City
    My Bikes
    too many
    Posts
    18,866
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Every city has its own dance. For that matter, every intersection or interchange has its own dance. NYC looks disorderly, but that's because it doesn't follow your idea of order. We cut things close, but there is body language which states intentions, if you read it carefully. There aren't many hard feelings. You'd think there are, because there's so much honking. I've come to believe that honking isn't a warning or even a statement of anger. It just goes along with breathing. Some people just do it habitually. How else can I interpret the honking that starts 37 milliseconds after a light turns green?

    As for danger, I don't think so. Counterintuitively, you're safer on a bike than in a car. No one wants to hit a bike. Drivers may come close, but they stop or slow or turn to avoid hitting us.

    There are a lot of brave delivery cyclists. The surface is very slippery with all this slush sitting in the streets this week. My fear would be the wheels sliding out and the cyclist sliding under a vehicle. I've been meaning to try riding in the slush, but the 11F temperature has dissuaded me from riding.
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

    Tom Reingold
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  19. #19
    degeared
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    480
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a Disc Trucker, Cross Check, and until about 2 months ago, a KM (same geo as Ogre). Between the two, I would definitely get the Ogre, mainly because you mentioned off-road trails. I have 43's on my CC and going down singletracks, it's not that fun. My other rigid 29er with a Surly Knard tire is a hoot and just eats up the bumps. Now, if your definition of "off-road" is fireroads, then I would favor the DT, because it will be better for all of the other commuting duties.

    Other models to consider is the Krampus/ECR. Many people tour on fat bikes:

    http://joecruz.wordpress.com/2010/09...surly-pugsley/

    But I just haven't enjoyed any of the fat bike rides, as it is just too......fat. Sluggish, slow, lethargic. Not enjoyable for me. However, the 29+ platform provides just the right amount of cush and flick. If I were to get a new bike today for dirt touring, it would be the Krampus or ECR. But my current with a Knard up front does well, too.

  20. #20
    Senior Member westrid_dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    My Bikes
    Surly Ogre, Novara Express, Yeti 575
    Posts
    95
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by palu View Post
    I have a Disc Trucker, Cross Check, and until about 2 months ago, a KM (same geo as Ogre). Between the two, I would definitely get the Ogre, mainly because you mentioned off-road trails. I have 43's on my CC and going down singletracks, it's not that fun. My other rigid 29er with a Surly Knard tire is a hoot and just eats up the bumps. Now, if your definition of "off-road" is fireroads, then I would favor the DT, because it will be better for all of the other commuting duties.

    Other models to consider is the Krampus/ECR. Many people tour on fat bikes:

    http://joecruz.wordpress.com/2010/09...surly-pugsley/

    But I just haven't enjoyed any of the fat bike rides, as it is just too......fat. Sluggish, slow, lethargic. Not enjoyable for me. However, the 29+ platform provides just the right amount of cush and flick. If I were to get a new bike today for dirt touring, it would be the Krampus or ECR. But my current with a Knard up front does well, too.

    Thanks for the reply, palu. I'm working on pricing an Ogre with various accessories. Our local Surly dealer is getting a couple of ECRs in the next week or so, I'll probably take a look at them once they are built. But, for what I'm looking for in a "jack of all trades" bike, I think the Ogre is a better match.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,706
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would have bought the Salsa Vaya but I already had the Schwinn Super Sport DBX which quite similar in that its an all-rounder bike. The only thing I didn't like about it was that it came came with drop handlebars but I was able to replace them with Origin 8 Tiki mustache bars, which gave me the upright riding position I was looking for while keeping the Shimano Tiagra STI shifter/brake levers.

    Such a bike with disk brakes isn't a road bike but then it does everything a road bike can't do.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •