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Thread: toe overlap

  1. #1
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    toe overlap

    bought a new bike , a Cinelli Hobo size 53 , and discovered It is affected by the so called toe Overlap.
    how many of you have to deal with this issue?
    is it a big problem in commuting?
    The bike is supposed to be used for commuting and touring ..
    Any comment is appreciated

  2. #2
    What, me worry? Telly's Avatar
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    Here's a article by Dave Moulton on toe overlap and why it isn't a design flaw/problem, hope this helps!

    http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com...o-problem.html

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    No problem with toe overlap at speed, but around pedestrians, riding slowly on sidewalks, and now with very difficult snow conditions I sometimes have contact between my Lake boots and studded Marathon Winter tire. Sounds and feels pretty scary but has never caused any real problem.

  4. #4
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Was it online?
    I cant believe an LBS person wouldn't point that out.
    Personally, I would sell/trade it before I put a mile on it.
    If you re a bike-only transportationist, it will be an issue at some point in time.
    Not trying to be the usual bike forum hater, just being pragmatically real.

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    Senior Member ratell's Avatar
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    My bike has toe overlap. I pretty quickly have learned to keep my feet out of the way. It's really only an issue at slow speed and you just have to get used to keeping your feet at 12 and 6.
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    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    All my bikes have toe overlap. Only notice it when weaving through low speed gates or doing a U turn on a narrow path, and I have learned to pedal half stokes at those times.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DVC45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by letibell View Post
    is it a big problem in commuting?
    Depends. If you are going to be on a mostly crowded area and frequent slow speed turns is expected, then yes.
    This is when a good folding bike with small wheels shine.

    Quote Originally Posted by letibell View Post
    The bike is supposed to be used for commuting and touring ..
    Any comment is appreciated
    Maybe split the requirements and get a different bike for each purpose? Or get a Bike Friday NWT?

  8. #8
    The Left Coast, USA FrenchFit's Avatar
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    As pointed out in the article, it comes into play making u turns or threading your way through obstacles at low speed - assuming you are cranking. Never been an issue for me on a commuter, if I wanted to weave in and out between pedestrians on an MUP I'd probably be on a beach cruiser. You may get the occasional toe strike but it's hardly a big deal, it doesn't translate into a fall or loss of control, your toe clears in a split second.

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    Senior Member moochems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=(8)=- View Post
    Was it online?
    I cant believe an LBS person wouldn't point that out.
    Personally, I would sell/trade it before I put a mile on it.
    If you re a bike-only transportationist, it will be an issue at some point in time.
    Not trying to be the usual bike forum hater, just being pragmatically real.

    Interesting perspective.

    I do not like toe overlap at all, but can deal with it on one of my bikes. I don't commute on that particular bike, though, for other reasons than toe overlap.

    I could see dealing with the overlap, if other virtues of that ride were worth the trade off. However, my commuter does not have toe overlap, and I certainly take that for granted.

    I wouldn't want a commuter with overlap; I might deal with overlap if I liked the bike enough.

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    Toe strikes can really suck with fenders. But the only way to really avoid overlap is to use small wheels (using shorter cranks and avoiding toe clips help, but nowhere near as much). For medium-to-large frame sizes, 26" is small enough. I haven't run the numbers on smaller frames. It seems that many people live with the annoyance, so even though I think overlap is something to avoid on a commuting rig if at all possible, I would not consider the shop grossly negligent for failing to discuss this with you.

  11. #11
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    they I suppose only slightly altered a race bike geometry , so the handling is sporty..

    and the 53 being small the wheels still large, 622-35. you got the result of those decisions..

    now , you just have to cope.. or sell it and look for something with smaller wheels , next.

    Maybe Italy just has too long a road racing history
    and Cinelli and touring bike are just a company with a habit of not making touring bikes..,.

    so laying out a shallower head tube angle never crossed their Minds .
    Nor making a longer top tube..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 01-26-14 at 12:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member gregjones's Avatar
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    Toe overlap is only a problem if you're racing crawling babies on a figure-8 track inside a small nursery.

    Ride a 49cc fixed gear bike for awhile. You'll figure out how to deal with it.

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    johnliu@earthlink.net jyl's Avatar
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    Toe overlap is not a big deal. It will take you by surprise a few times, always at very low speed (by definition), you might even topple over once. Then you will get used to it and it will not bother you again.
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  14. #14
    Intrepid Bicycle Commuter AlmostGreenGuy's Avatar
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    My Salsa Vaya has a small bit of toe overlap. I noticed it the first day I had the bike, playing around on my driveway at about 2MPH, barely managing to stay balanced and doing a u-turn simultaneously. I honestly haven't noticed is since, in 2 years of use. In real use, I never go that slow.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregjones View Post
    Ride a 49cc fixed gear bike for awhile. You'll figure out how to deal with it.
    +1

    My fixed gear is 46 cm. By comparison my road bike (with fenders) is 49 cm. Both have toe overlap. Usually not a problem. Last week was the the first time in a long time I was making a low-speed sharp turn and had a toe-strike with the fender of the road bike. Since I was going slow already, I just stopped and put my feet down.

  16. #16
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    my cross-check has pretty gnarly overlap, but like most people said only comes up when making a slow u-turn or a harder turn at slow speed. and like other said i just remember to position my pedals in the right spots while turning. other than that its never a problem. i wouldn't worry about it unless, like other said, you will constantly be moving at slow speeds around people for most of your commute.
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    Senior Member alan s's Avatar
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    I'm going to suggest getting a unicycle. No toe overlap, even with clown shoes.

  18. #18
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    Toe overlap is cause by stem overhang. Almost all bikes are now designed this way.
    A bike needs a 100mm stem like a hole in the head.
    A big rake helps some.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan s View Post
    I'm going to suggest getting a unicycle. No toe overlap, even with clown shoes.
    Plus they can literally "turn on a dime" (if you know how to ride them).

  20. #20
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    I crashed at low speed a couple of times while learning about toe overlap. The moral of the story: think very hard about how you will perform your low speed deep turn manoeuvres. Both my crashes were in low-speed u-turns, and they were both totally avoidable. Live and learn!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jralbert View Post
    I crashed at low speed a couple of times while learning about toe overlap. The moral of the story: think very hard about how you will perform your low speed deep turn manoeuvres.
    That is the moral of the story? Seriously? The bike's OK, you just have to "think very hard" to keep from crashing?

    Sometimes you overlap apologists crack me up!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterw_diy View Post
    That is the moral of the story? Seriously? The bike's OK, you just have to "think very hard" to keep from crashing?

    Sometimes you overlap apologists crack me up!
    Well, I would imagine basically any time you're piloting a bike you'll need to be thinking at least a bit in order to avoid crashing, unless maybe you know something I don't? I'm a short guy who likes to ride bikes with 700c wheels, so yeah, toe overlap kinda comes with the territory. I didn't realize this was an issue people felt the need to take sides on - it's been a refreshingly long while since I've been called an apologist! The things folks are willing to argue about is what cracks me up.

  23. #23
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
    Toe overlap is cause by stem overhang. Almost all bikes are now designed this way.
    A bike needs a 100mm stem like a hole in the head.
    I, uh, WTF?
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
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  24. #24
    Senior Member megalowmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    I, uh, WTF?
    I know. It makes no sense whatsoever.

  25. #25
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    As jralbert might say, think harder.

    To put handlebars the right distance from the saddle, you need to adjust stem length. To use a a shorter stem you'd want a longer top tube. Longer top tube = longer front center (BB to front axle distance). Longer front center = less toe overlap. A bike that "fits" with a 120mm stem but has 20mm of overlap might do better, at least with regard to toe overlap, to have 20mm more top tube and a 20mm shorter stem.

    At least that's how I read the fork overhang comment.

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