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  1. #76
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus View Post
    There is both a battery and dynamo powered version of the SafeRide. One posted said only the battery version was sold in the US.
    not true

    anyway, like I always say, the North American market is tiny, and if Philips pulls out, that tells one something
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  2. #77
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    their home entertainment electronics and Razor business is more lucrative..

  3. #78
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    their home entertainment electronics and Razor business is more lucrative..
    and HVAC units :-/
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    That's a very nice post, so I hate to say this, but I will...

    using batteries is missing the point and it pains me to see the US so far behind in tech (even with bikes!) because I want to see the US succeed.

    :faceplam:
    It seems like most bike shops in the US don't really deal with dynamos or dynamo lights. They tend to push battery lights, both largely USB rechargeable now, but some replaceable batteries typical at the lower end.

    There are some bikes that come with dynamo lights stock sold in the US, but its the exception.

    Do stores not generally deal with dynamo's because the consumer in the US doesn't want dynamo lights? Or do consumers not want dynamo's because stores push battery lights and they don't know otherwise?

    I think part of it is that most bikes sold in the US are for recreation, not transportation or utility: roadbikes where people try to outspend others in the ridding group for the lightest bike, mountain bikes, and hybrid/town bikes used largely for recreation/exercise. These bikes are usually used in the day, so lights are an occasional after thought for most bikers in the US, hence and add-on they can buy and remove when they don't want them.

    In some areas using bikes for transportation and utility is growing. Maybe more shops will start catering to these users and dynamo lights will start to grow in popularity, but for this to really happen more of this stuff would need to be in stock and standard on bikes. My guess is that this will not happen quickly so dynamo lighting will remain more niche in the US.

  5. #80
    afraid of whales Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    and HVAC units :-/
    Phillips is one of the largest lighting manufacturers in the world and is well known for their industry leading ballasts and other lighting products. They also own one of the largest LED brands, Lumileds.
    IGH's, Dyno Hubs, LED lights and old frames

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    not true

    anyway, like I always say, the North American market is tiny, and if Philips pulls out, that tells one something
    What is not true? That there is both a battery and dynamo version of the Saferide light? Or that one poster said that only the battery version was available in the US. I didn't say that it was only the battery version, someone else did. I really don't know.

    I do know there was a battery version and you could buy it in the US, at least until recently.

    I actually had heard philips was killing the saferide light entirely, not just pulling out of the US. Maybe this isn't true, but if it is then they are pulling out of every market for that product, not just US. This sort of killing of products entirely or in markets is very common for a company the size of Philips. I can't imagine it was a big money maker for them.

  7. #82
    afraid of whales Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus View Post
    It seems like most bike shops in the US don't really deal with dynamos or dynamo lights. They tend to push battery lights, both largely USB rechargeable now, but some replaceable batteries typical at the lower end....
    The USA is behind when it comes to city bikes, so what else is new? Dyno hubs will be big in the USA when electric shifting takes over. The idea of riding a bike that isn't a goofy 15lb dropbar doesn't make sense to the high end market, 99% of bike shops couldn't care less about the commuter market.

  8. #83
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus View Post
    What is not true? That there is both a battery and dynamo version of the Saferide light? Or that one poster said that only the battery version was available in the US. I didn't say that it was only the battery version, someone else did. I really don't know.

    I do know there was a battery version and you could buy it in the US, at least until recently.

    I actually had heard philips was killing the saferide light entirely, not just pulling out of the US. Maybe this isn't true, but if it is then they are pulling out of every market for that product, not just US. This sort of killing of products entirely or in markets is very common for a company the size of Philips. I can't imagine it was a big money maker for them.
    upgrading ... not killing

    the dynamo is always "accessible" in the NA market, whether or not it's "officially" for sale is irrelevant.
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  9. #84
    afraid of whales Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus View Post
    I actually had heard philips was killing the saferide light entirely, not just pulling out of the US. Maybe this isn't true....
    LOL, just keep making it up as you go along, it sounds great, as if you actually have a clue....

  10. #85
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    Phillips is one of the largest lighting manufacturers in the world and is well known for their industry leading ballasts and other lighting products. They also own one of the largest LED brands, Lumileds.
    Believe me, I know.
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  11. #86
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus View Post
    It seems like most bike shops in the US don't really deal with dynamos or dynamo lights. They tend to push battery lights, both largely USB rechargeable now, but some replaceable batteries typical at the lower end.

    There are some bikes that come with dynamo lights stock sold in the US, but its the exception.

    Do stores not generally deal with dynamo's because the consumer in the US doesn't want dynamo lights? Or do consumers not want dynamo's because stores push battery lights and they don't know otherwise?

    I think part of it is that most bikes sold in the US are for recreation, not transportation or utility: roadbikes where people try to outspend others in the ridding group for the lightest bike, mountain bikes, and hybrid/town bikes used largely for recreation/exercise. These bikes are usually used in the day, so lights are an occasional after thought for most bikers in the US, hence and add-on they can buy and remove when they don't want them.

    In some areas using bikes for transportation and utility is growing. Maybe more shops will start catering to these users and dynamo lights will start to grow in popularity, but for this to really happen more of this stuff would need to be in stock and standard on bikes. My guess is that this will not happen quickly so dynamo lighting will remain more niche in the US.
    Nope.

    The NA bike market will always be behind/different than the rest of the globe.

    I assume it will always be like the NA auto market (different/minor).
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    That's a very nice post, so I hate to say this, but I will...

    using batteries is missing the point and it pains me to see the US so far behind in tech (even with bikes!) because I want to see the US succeed.

    :faceplam:
    I assume you noticed that I mention they make both a dynamo and battery powered version.

    So I'm curious - what point do you think they're missing here in the US? There's a few of reasons why a battery power version is useful:
    1. Smaller upfront cost - d. Dynamo wheels in the US cost $135, $220, or $400 depending on the model and wheel. Obviously a $120-$150 light is cheaper than the wheel + the $110 for the dynamo light itself.
    2. If you own and ride multiple bikes the cost is exponentially less.
    3. Easier to resell a battery light if you end up realizing it's not for you (shipping costs are much lower than shipping a whole wheel)
    4. If you own a race bike, it's unlikely you want to put a relatively heavy dynamo hub and wheel, along with some very slight drag on it. For most bikes it's a non-issue, but if you spend thousands of dollars to drop weight it's not something you'd want to do. A battery light works better as you can remove it for racing/day training.

    I mean - I agree that the US is behind in even hearing that dynamo light has gone from being silly (with tungsten lights) to useful (with LED lighting). I've heard that supposedly dynamo stuff is much much cheaper is Europe. But I think there will always be some reasons to have battery lights...

  13. #88
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I assume you noticed that I mention they make both a dynamo and battery powered version.

    So I'm curious - what point do you think they're missing here in the US? There's a few of reasons why a battery power version is useful:
    1. Smaller upfront cost - d. Dynamo wheels in the US cost $135, $220, or $400 depending on the model and wheel. Obviously a $120-$150 light is cheaper than the wheel + the $110 for the dynamo light itself.
    2. If you own and ride multiple bikes the cost is exponentially less.
    3. Easier to resell a battery light if you end up realizing it's not for you (shipping costs are much lower than shipping a whole wheel)
    4. If you own a race bike, it's unlikely you want to put a relatively heavy dynamo hub and wheel, along with some very slight drag on it. For most bikes it's a non-issue, but if you spend thousands of dollars to drop weight it's not something you'd want to do. A battery light works better as you can remove it for racing/day training.

    I mean - I agree that the US is behind in even hearing that dynamo light has gone from being silly (with tungsten lights) to useful (with LED lighting). I've heard that supposedly dynamo stuff is much much cheaper is Europe. But I think there will always be some reasons to have battery lights...
    Same things that North America is always missing...

    quality-of-life...

    why save a few $ when you can reduce stress when the bicycle is the primary means of transport.

    this can be extended to work:life balance, healthcare, childcare, free tuition, etc...

    the North American market distills everything to a finite amount of $ ... in that regard it's just like China, but with a different baseline.

    edit: your prices are way too high, I can easily beat those prices shipped to your door.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus
    I actually had heard philips was killing the saferide light entirely, not just pulling out of the US. Maybe this isn't true....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    LOL, just keep making it up as you go along, it sounds great, as if you actually have a clue....
    Earlier today I was telling one of the battery-light fanboys that I thought he was full of it, now I'm telling a dynamo-fanboy he's full of it. I guess it's been a balanced day...

    Phillips light is gone!

    Dear business partner, dear customer,

    On March 31, 2014, Philips will permanently discontinue its line of LED BikeLights. This includes the sale of the products belonging to the Philips LED Saferide®, Philips LED Activeride® and Philips LED RearLight product lines. All products and accessories will be retired from the market.

    After that date, the products will be no longer for sale, and orders will no longer be accepted. We will continue to provide aftersales and support services for the products that have been sold in the last years, according to the terms and conditions that you may expect from a Philips solution.

    We strongly suggest that you liaise with your local sales partner, to discuss a last-buy option accommodating your business’ needs.

    Should you have additional questions, we encourage you to learn more about the details through your direct customer contact.

    We sincerely appreciate your support and regret any inconvenience this necessary action causes you.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    LOL, just keep making it up as you go along, it sounds great, as if you actually have a clue....
    Wow, hostile group today. I said I heard, not I know...actually read in in these forums at some point, but didn't pay to much attention to it at the time. I even said it may not be true, as I realize half of what I read in these forums is likely not true. Looks like it still being sold in the US too, at least the battery version, not sure if its a new model or the same.

    Edit: Thanks to PaulRivers, you can see I don't just make this stuff up as I go, I read it here.
    Phillips light is gone!

  16. #91
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Earlier today I was telling one of the battery-light fanboys that I thought he was full of it, now I'm telling a dynamo-fanboy he's full of it. I guess it's been a balanced day...

    Phillips light is gone!
    lol ... rename and release in 12-18 months ... feel free to quote me.
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    Same things that North America is always missing...

    quality-of-life...

    why save a few $ when you can reduce stress when the bicycle is the primary means of transport.

    this can be extended to work:life balance, healthcare, childcare, free tuition, etc...

    the North American market distills everything to a finite amount of $ ... in that regard it's just like China, but with a different baseline.
    I don't think battery vs dynamo lighting is going to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    edit: your prices are way too high, I can easily beat those prices shipped to your door.
    Ok, I'll bite, how would I do that? I'm curious...

  18. #93
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I don't think battery vs dynamo lighting is going to change that... :-P



    Ok, I'll bite, how would I do that? I'm curious.
    dynamos hubs run around $30 shipped to the US ... wheels from around $100 ... would you like links?
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    Nope.

    The NA bike market will always be behind/different than the rest of the globe.

    I assume it will always be like the NA auto market (different/minor).
    Nope? nope to what?

    I think for the most part I actually AGREE with you, the NA/US market is unique, and dynamo lights will probably never be a big mainstream item here. I am not saying I like that, but thats how it is.

    I question if its accurate to describe the NA auto market as minor, as auto companies create a ton of special vehicles to chase this market you call "minor". I would guess that most people in the US own cars, spend a lot of money on cars, and buy new cars more frequently then many other parts of the world. Probably all good reasons so many auto makers spend a lot on the NA market.

    Honestly have no idea how the US bike market is compared to other countries, but it seems like bikes are generally not considered a primary form of transit and to many bikes are a form of recreation.

  20. #95
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus View Post

    I question if its accurate to describe the NA auto market as minor, as auto companies create a ton of special vehicles to chase this market you call "minor".
    That's the definition of minor, or?
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    That's the definition of minor, or?
    I just don't understand how you can call the US auto market minor, and not have any facts to back that up.

    Check out this article
    Global auto sales hit record high of 82.8 million

    Some quick excerpts:
    The firm tallied year-end sales numbers from around the world and came up with a total of 82.84 million vehicles, a 4.2% increase compared to 2012
    ...
    Sales growth in China and the United States – the world's two largest auto markets – underlies the record surge in new cars and trucks.
    ...
    In the U.S., 2013 auto sales climbed 7.6% to 15.6 million



    So you consider 15.6 million out 82.8 million to be minor? I am guessing its a good % of money too.

  22. #97
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstraus View Post
    I just don't understand how you can call the US auto market minor, and not have any facts to back that up.

    Check out this article
    Global auto sales hit record high of 82.8 million

    Some quick excerpts:
    The firm tallied year-end sales numbers from around the world and came up with a total of 82.84 million vehicles, a 4.2% increase compared to 2012
    ...
    Sales growth in China and the United States – the world's two largest auto markets – underlies the record surge in new cars and trucks.
    ...
    In the U.S., 2013 auto sales climbed 7.6% to 15.6 million



    So you consider 15.6 million out 82.8 million to be minor? I am guessing its a good % of money too.
    I see that this conversation is becoming prototypically American ... as in if I call a market "minor" based on your definition, you're insulted.

    You claimed special "cars" for your market.

    Now, you're showing the entire market.

    Logically fallacy.

    Distill all of the Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys/Crowns/Corollas out of those numbers ...

    then get back to me with the "special vehicles to chase this market you call 'minor'?"

    then we can discuss like adults
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  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    dynamos hubs run around $30 shipped to the US ... wheels from around $100 ... would you like links?
    Yeah, definitely!

  24. #99
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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    Thanks for the links, but - according to that last link, that last wheel would cost $147.61 when shipped and converted to US dollars. That's cheaper for a Shimano hub, but more expensive than the cheapest option I mentioned above....

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