The weight of adding a shimano dynamo hub?
#151
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Then LED lighting came along. Even the first ones weren't that great, but every couple of years they got more efficient for the same power. While this greatly improved battery lighting, it revolutionized dynamo lighting. It was only a few years ago that the Lumotec Cyo came out, which in my opinion (having tried the 40 lux version of their other light), was the first dynamo light that actually put the kind of light that you needed on the road.
My explanation is simply that the SON used to be able to get a high price because it was a niche market, and nowadays they just haven't changed their pricing. It's like the Lexus of dynamo hubs - it's cool, but for many people it's not worth the price premium. If you're interested, Peter White lists out efficiencies on his page here -
Shimano DH-3N70 Dynohub from Peter White Cycles (Those figures may be old, all I can say is that they seem to be done at the same point in time.)
Shimano DH-3N70 Dynohub from Peter White Cycles (Those figures may be old, all I can say is that they seem to be done at the same point in time.)
I don't know that much about the Supernova or Shutter Precision hubs, other than that I never hear about them, so I assume they're not revolutionary or anything. I've had trouble even finding either for sale in the US - I heard about them a couple of weeks ago, but could only find them for sale in Europe.
Novatec dynamo hub. Novatec makes quality lightweight sealed bearing road hubs (have one), but their dynamo seems to be on par with the Sanyo, haven't tried it.
#152
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The thing is - I've 4 Dinnotte lights and 2 Light and Motion lights. They range from $100 to...I don't recall exactly, $400? $600? The problem is - the beam patterns are usually "sufficient" for riding at night. But for actually being able to see? My Cyo (my dynamo light) is about tied for the #1 spot vs using both my Light and Motion lights - the Seca 900 on high, and the Seca 1400 on medium at the same time. They both have their ups and downs - the Seca combination will blind anyone coming towards you. That's 1600 lumens, 750 of which is with a specifically wide angle lens. The Cyo on the other hand, specifically doesn't blind anyone - including pedestrians and other bikers on the MUP I ride. It doesn't affect my night vision (I ride in a city, the trail is unlit but you get ambient lighting), so my eyes still see more - something no other regular beam light does.
For $130-$140, you can get a battery version of the Cyo Premium, same shaped beam but no additional dynamo cost required.
I have no interest in claiming that the dynamo or battery lights are superior to one another - they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Cheap china lights are undoubtedly cheaper at $16-$50. They're also less reliable, there's a little more worry about the battery overheating while charging because it's so cheap, they don't seem to be waterproof, they're more likely to break, etc.
For around $100 you can get a well made, waterproof, american light with a decent beam pattern - still cheaper than the dynamo.
With the dynamo, you get a worry-free light. It's never accidentally left at home when you needed it (happened to me). You never forget to charge the battery (happened to me). You never charge the battery last week, but the light drains it even though it's off because you didn't realize you had to disconnect it (happened to me). You never have your lights shut off in the middle of the ride because your batteries got old and don't hold much of a charge, without warning, leaving you in the middle of an unlit bike path (happened to me - luckily the moon was out). It's totally waterproof. You battery life doesn't go down when it's cold outside, or go into low power mode because it's cold. And of course - you never just plain end up on a ride that's longer than your battery life.
And of course if you're touring, you may not have the possibility of recharging light batteries at all, and a dynamo lets you charge other small items like a phone.
They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Niterider sells a $560 mountain bike light. Light and Motion sells a $500 battery light. I see full carbon bikes all the time, and those start at $2,000. It's like iPhone vs Android - there's plenty of reasons to go with one or the other, neither is the "winner" or has a clear consistent advantage.
Peterwhitecycles doesn't list the efficiency of shimano hubs because he wants to sell schmidts. I had the disc version of the 3N70 (3D70) for 7 years, it died due to freezing weather, it had a good run. The newer shutters, deore lx, and deore xt dynamo hubs I'm using are lighter and more efficient.
Supernova is a rebadged Shutter precision with a different shell, they are online only. Shutter precision is online only, no distribution in the us. Great hubs, highly recommended over Schmidt SONs, uses the same connectors as Shimano (the shape is different but the entry snaps in just the same).
Novatec dynamo hub. Novatec makes quality lightweight sealed bearing road hubs (have one), but their dynamo seems to be on par with the Sanyo, haven't tried it.
Novatec dynamo hub. Novatec makes quality lightweight sealed bearing road hubs (have one), but their dynamo seems to be on par with the Sanyo, haven't tried it.
#153
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I use both systems extensively, you said many things that have been said before and doesn't need repeating, you are also overexaggerating the benefits of dynamo system greatly.
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You're the same guy who said Peter White doesn't list the efficiencies of Shimano hubs on his page because he wants to sell SON hubs, in reference to me posting a direct link to his site where he directly listed out the efficiencies of the Shimano hub - right?
#155
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[PEDANT MODE]What's the difference between exaggeration and overexaggeration?[/PEDANT MODE]
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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#157
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You can also order online from INTELLIGENT DESIGN CYCLES WEB or All | Sinewave Cycles
The second set of links was definitely better...wish there was more info out there on them. All dynamo hubs put out the same amount of power - the differences are in efficiency (which is for a very small load to being with anyways, etc.
#158
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Intelligent Design site is really cool. The guy from the site is really helpful and responsive on e-mail.
I purchased the Herrmans H-Track tail light and the Herrmans H-One S head light from them for my first dynamo set up (the result of my original post)
Herrmans H-Track - Herrmans - Dynamo Taillamps | Intelligentdesigncycles
Herrmans H-One S - Herrmans - Dynamo Headlamps | Intelligentdesigncycles
While I don't have any other dynamo lighting experience - I have used a decent amount of headlights and tail lights over the past few years - and both of these are VERY bright. This video I made shows it somewhat - but I feel very confident riding with these in the dark. (The blinking light is not one of the dynamo lights)
I purchased the Herrmans H-Track tail light and the Herrmans H-One S head light from them for my first dynamo set up (the result of my original post)
Herrmans H-Track - Herrmans - Dynamo Taillamps | Intelligentdesigncycles
Herrmans H-One S - Herrmans - Dynamo Headlamps | Intelligentdesigncycles
While I don't have any other dynamo lighting experience - I have used a decent amount of headlights and tail lights over the past few years - and both of these are VERY bright. This video I made shows it somewhat - but I feel very confident riding with these in the dark. (The blinking light is not one of the dynamo lights)
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Last edited by Lex Fati; 03-26-14 at 11:13 PM. Reason: distinctions to model vs series
#160
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This isn't entirely accurate, though 6v 3w has been the standard for a long time. Though most dynamos are designed to output 6v 3w, wheel size is a factor. With Schmidt, for instance the Son 28 is rated 6v 3w on a 700c wheel at a given speed, whereas the SonDelux is designed to output the same at near the same speed on a 20" wheel. This means that the SonDelux produces less output at the same RPM. Peter White has a discussion about this in the SonDelux section on his website. Similarly, with the Shutter Precision hubs 8 series, the P model hubs output more than the S models on the same size rim. I believe its 3w for the P models and 2.4w for the S on a 700c wheel. Also, there is a Shimano 1.5 watt hub out there. I don't doubt there are other non-standard designs out there as well.
#162
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Technically that's true, but my point was about dynamos with the standard and common design. Sometimes people think that a better quality dynamo will get them light or something, and that's not how it works. Pretty much all (I'm sure there's an exception somewhere) of the dynamo lights assume a 6v 3w hub.
BTW, there is an even wimpier Sturmey dyno, 2.4W. Be careful when purchasing discount Sturmey dynos, some of the 'bay offerings have been the 2.4W version. The very old steel Sturmey dyno hub is only good for ~1.8W.
Here's a website with good info on how extra power is pulled from the better dynos:
Dynamo LED Light Systems for Bicycles (electronic circuits)
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I bought off the 'bay from the Intelligent Design guy and it included the adapter. There's also a ebay seller that makes an adapter:
Headset Tools, Wheel Adapters items in mtbtools store on eBay!
Headset Tools, Wheel Adapters items in mtbtools store on eBay!
Last edited by Mr IGH; 03-28-14 at 09:24 AM.
#164
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Cool, that's totally fine, I just didn't want the idea to degenerate into a bunch of niche and edge points. For most people thinking about getting a dynamo, they all put out the same amount of power, you don't have to worry you'll get a less expensive unit and your light won't be as bright or something - they all power the lights the same.
Technically, there are other dymamos out there somewhere that put out different amounts of power - don't buy them. :-)
Technically, there are other dymamos out there somewhere that put out different amounts of power - don't buy them. :-)