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Old 02-06-14, 04:30 AM   #51
imi
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Vehicle chased me yesterday morning...

Well done avoiding a dangerous situation with no-one ending up hurt!

fwiw, I've spent the most part of my life trainig and teaching japanese Ju-jitsu, where there are many techniques for unarmed defense against knives. This has taught me that knives are extremely dangerous! Do not underestimate a knife wielding attacker!

The philipino martial arts are arguably the most developed as to knife defence.

Take a rubber knife, coat it in red chalk powder and get someone to "go crazy" on you. Good luck!

Last edited by imi; 02-06-14 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 02-06-14, 05:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs View Post
Carrying a weapon is nothing more than insurance if you find yourself outside the bounds of the common sense Utopia you proffer as so exceedingly attainable. You're ironically waxing poetic over what ain't reality.
Statistics would disagree with you. If one looks at the hard numbers, concealed carrying results in a higher probability of death by firearm. Statistics are similar when looking at households that contain weapons.

Now, it should be noted, that I am not saying a possessing a weapon makes one more dangerous. What I am saying, is that a gun isn't an answer. In fact, to have any proficiency with a weapon and to keep trained (to the Swiss standard of mandatory 2 year tests, where households are required to have a weapon) is a very expensive proposition.

My argument is that money would be better spent in rectifying the situation (i.e. moving or altering one's circumstances to statistically reduce interactions such as those describe by the OP).

Personally, I think it's very attainable. For example, just about anyone with a BS can move to Denmark (CPH in fact if you like bikes, and look for employment ... you'll even get taught Danish for free!)

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/comin...encard-scheme/

My guess is that you're not in touch with what's actually available for average low to middle class American citizens (I am assuming that the OP is an American citizen living in America). I've moved around a lot (!) and I employee people from around the globe on a regular basis, so I'm quite "in tune" with what is actually possible (i.e. it is reality that I move people on a global basis most days.)

I'm currently looking at hiring someone from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzh...on_Mega_Center

Yes, that is not a typo ... that's indoor classroom and research space for 400k students/people. Yes, that is 40 million square feet of learning space ... or roughly 700 NFL fields!

My perspective is quite broad and not so "waxfully poetic", so to say.
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Old 02-06-14, 05:10 AM   #53
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Carrying a weapon is nothing more than insurance if you find yourself outside the bounds of the common sense Utopia you proffer as so exceedingly attainable. You're ironically waxing poetic over what ain't reality.
In urban areas, weapon is about 100 times more likely to cause jail or injury to people who have nothing to do with violent crimes: i.e. gun owner themselves, gun owner's kids, friends etc. Those are, at least, the stats for my country.

It is a lot wiser to not have a gun on you and avoid problems. Of course, there can occur a situation you really need a gun in spite of all the precautions, but you could also be hit by a car, or a piano may drop on your head - you can't predict and control everything. Still, carrying weapons is, IMO, more likely to cause, than to prevent trouble/injury/death. This comes from a decent shooter and lover of guns, with a carry permit.

OT: The OP probably did the smartest thing possible in that situation. Just leaves for the future - find a safer route, or neighborhood.

Last edited by Slaninar; 02-06-14 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 02-06-14, 07:14 AM   #54
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Is pepper spray legal in your area?
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Old 02-06-14, 08:45 AM   #55
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Statistics would disagree with you. If one looks at the hard numbers, concealed carrying results in a higher probability of death by firearm. Statistics are similar when looking at households that contain weapons.

Now, it should be noted, that I am not saying a possessing a weapon makes one more dangerous. What I am saying, is that a gun isn't an answer. In fact, to have any proficiency with a weapon and to keep trained (to the Swiss standard of mandatory 2 year tests, where households are required to have a weapon) is a very expensive proposition.

My argument is that money would be better spent in rectifying the situation (i.e. moving or altering one's circumstances to statistically reduce interactions such as those describe by the OP).

Personally, I think it's very attainable. For example, just about anyone with a BS can move to Denmark (CPH in fact if you like bikes, and look for employment ... you'll even get taught Danish for free!)

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/comin...encard-scheme/

My guess is that you're not in touch with what's actually available for average low to middle class American citizens (I am assuming that the OP is an American citizen living in America). I've moved around a lot (!) and I employee people from around the globe on a regular basis, so I'm quite "in tune" with what is actually possible (i.e. it is reality that I move people on a global basis most days.)

I'm currently looking at hiring someone from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzh...on_Mega_Center

Yes, that is not a typo ... that's indoor classroom and research space for 400k students/people. Yes, that is 40 million square feet of learning space ... or roughly 700 NFL fields!

My perspective is quite broad and not so "waxfully poetic", so to say.

Yes, and statistically speaking there would be far less injuries an fatalities resultant of motor vehicle mishaps if no one was allowed to drive cars.

i guess these same statistics also indicate a victim is better off not being armed when confronted violently.
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Old 02-06-14, 08:52 AM   #56
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Probably just kids messing with you, but who knows? Move to a better part of the world, that's the answer.
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Old 02-06-14, 08:52 AM   #57
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In urban areas, weapon is about 100 times more likely to cause jail or injury to people who have nothing to do with violent crimes: i.e. gun owner themselves, gun owner's kids, friends etc. Those are, at least, the stats for my country.

It is a lot wiser to not have a gun on you and avoid problems. Of course, there can occur a situation you really need a gun in spite of all the precautions, but you could also be hit by a car, or a piano may drop on your head - you can't predict and control everything. Still, carrying weapons is, IMO, more likely to cause, than to prevent trouble/injury/death. This comes from a decent shooter and lover of guns, with a carry permit.
Yes, statistically speaking most possessors of weapons are wreckless morons.

None of this is directly pertinent to the scenario where if one is confronted violently, and all avenues of recourse have been exhausted, one still stands a better chance if they're armed and proficient with their weapon.

The OP was lucky he got away.
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Old 02-06-14, 09:00 AM   #58
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I'm amazed that you were able to ride away faster than an SUV could go. Clearly they were just messing with you. If they were intent on actually causing you harm they would have caught you. Not saying what they did was right...
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Old 02-06-14, 09:12 AM   #59
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a gun is always the answer!
In this case-he would actually have had time to bring it into play
Most of these deals-someone runs you over-or sneak ambushes you
Here-these SOBs were BOLDLY stalking him-no fear at all that they would get caught
or better yet get shot
Yeah-this episode-rare episode where a CC permit would be just the ticket
something with decent capacity-Glock 27 with a 23 mag-or 26 with a 19 mag -or just a plus 2 finger grip 10 rd 27 mag
Yeah I would have been scared spit-less
these thugs were going to hurt him-rob him- beat him to a pulp-steal everything-
this might not have been just a robbery-not with that "knock out" game
they saw him as an easy mark-bike riding geek-no chance he would be adequately armed
"god didn't make men equal-Col Colt did" lotta' truth to that
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Old 02-06-14, 09:59 AM   #60
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In this case-he would actually have had time to bring it into play
Most of these deals-someone runs you over-or sneak ambushes you
Here-these SOBs were BOLDLY stalking him-no fear at all that they would get caught
or better yet get shot
Yeah-this episode-rare episode where a CC permit would be just the ticket
something with decent capacity-Glock 27 with a 23 mag-or 26 with a 19 mag -or just a plus 2 finger grip 10 rd 27 mag
Yeah I would have been scared spit-less
these thugs were going to hurt him-rob him- beat him to a pulp-steal everything-
this might not have been just a robbery-not with that "knock out" game
they saw him as an easy mark-bike riding geek-no chance he would be adequately armed
"god didn't make men equal-Col Colt did" lotta' truth to that
is this English?

i speak a few languages and am confused.
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Old 02-06-14, 10:10 AM   #61
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Common sense is usually in order.

Why ride in a "bad part of town" at night?
Why live where you have to ride through a "bad part of town at all?"
Why live in area that has "bad parts of towns?"
Why live in countries that have such large wealth disparities?
Why not live somewhere where violence is reduced because the wealth is more evenly distributed?
If one can't move, why not change one's lifestyle such that one could move?

IMHO, carrying a weapon isn't the answer unless you're asking the wrong, usually short-term, short-sighted questions.
I think the answers are pretty easy on this one.

Maybe because it would be very difficult or impossible to ride around the "bad part of town".
Maybe because certain situations prevent him from moving or finding a different job at this time.
ALL cities have bad parts of town, at least in America they do. That's just the way it is.
Because we're in America (most people in this topic, including the OP), and that's just the way it is.
Because that's Socialism, and Socialism is NOT the answer! Despite what some of these left-wing nut jobs may think.
Changing one's lifestyle is often quite difficult if not impossible given certain circumstances like family, children, etc.

Seriously, why even ask these mundane questions?
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Old 02-06-14, 10:38 AM   #62
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...
Because that's Socialism, and Socialism is NOT the answer! Despite what some of these left-wing nut jobs may think.
Changing one's lifestyle is often quite difficult if not impossible given certain circumstances like family, children, etc.

Seriously, why even ask these mundane questions?
My take on his question boils down to "If you don't like your circumstances, then change them!"

It's a good point, good advice, and I didn't take it as political or socialist. Yes it can be extremely hard, but often it's not nearly as difficult as we may anticipate. Maybe not as extreme change as he suggests is warranted, but there is usually some way out if we have the determination and imagination and there's no harm in giving a close look at it. In my opinion.
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Old 02-06-14, 10:50 AM   #63
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Well let's take my situation for instance:

I live in a town just south of Memphis, a very bike UN-friendly town. I work in a slightly more bike friendly (very slightly) even farther south from me. I try my best to bike to work twice a week, 31 miles round trip.

Memphis has made HUGE strides in recent years in bike facilities all over town. And IMHO it's simply an EASIER place to cycle than where I live. Things aren't so spread out, roads aren't so small, hills aren't so large (riding a hilly 2-lane 45 MPH back road with constant traffic SUCKS!), and so on. Memphis is routinely in the news for being a "dangerous" place to live, but really there are many GREAT areas of town to live. Midtown for example, downtown, most parts of East Memphis, and so on.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to live in and bike to work in Memphis. But to make that happen I would first have to sell my house, likely for a loss, and find a place up there. Home prices are somewhat comparable depending on the area, but property taxes are THROUGH THE ROOF. 2-3 times what I'm currently paying annually, for an even smaller house than what we have now. I would also have to find a different job, because Memphis is even farther from my current job.

I have an architecture degree and work at this small town architecture firm where I've been 10 years this May. I love my job and the people, and it would just kill me to leave. I love the position and the things that I do here. Not to mention there probably aren't even any jobs available like my current position.

My parents are moving very near us soon, and that will put all my family with a few miles of us, except for my brother. When that happens it wouldn't make much sense, financially, or family-wise to try to relocate to Memphis. We may one day move here in town to a place that puts me a few miles closer to work, like 12 instead of 15. But even that is a LONG ways off.

So you see, changing your circumstance are not so easy for many people, especially with the current economy. Having a job you love is something VERY hard to come by, and if you have one (or for some people just being employed period) you really don't want to risk giving that up.
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Old 02-06-14, 11:18 AM   #64
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I love how this thread has moved from the OP looking for some support and a place to vent, to a politically motivated argument for socialism and fear. The twisting of "FACTS" and the references to "wealth equality" are laughable (go bow to your queen). Why should we have to be scared? Why should we have to drive around a bad part of town? Why should we have to move?

The fact that the OP works at a college is probably the only reason he was not carrying his weapon and therefore his only protection was to run. This was a good move and I am astounded anyone would argue it. I would have done everything the same even if I had my gun in my hand (although it would prove difficult to bunny hop a curb holding a gun). Pepper spray or a stun gun my have been nice as a back up but again, my first choice is get away.

I am glad you got away safe and did not become a statistic.
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Old 02-06-14, 11:27 AM   #65
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I love how this thread has moved from the OP looking for some support and a place to vent, to a politically motivated argument for socialism and fear. The twisting of "FACTS" and the references to "wealth equality" are laughable (go bow to your queen). Why should we have to be scared? Why should we have to drive around a bad part of town? Why should we have to move?

The fact that the OP works at a college is probably the only reason he was not carrying his weapon and therefore his only protection was to run. This was a good move and I am astounded anyone would argue it. I would have done everything the same even if I had my gun in my hand (although it would prove difficult to bunny hop a curb holding a gun). Pepper spray or a stun gun my have been nice as a back up but again, my first choice is get away.

I am glad you got away safe and did not become a statistic.
Ditto this.

I only recently started riding from my house to places in Memphis, where previously I might have driven with the bike on the car bike rack. I have to go through a bit of a sketchy area, but mostly just industrial areas. I don't feel unsafe and have never had any issues, thought I've only done it in daylight. Not sure I'd want to do it after dark, though.
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Old 02-06-14, 11:33 AM   #66
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My take on his question boils down to "If you don't like your circumstances, then change them!"

It's a good point, good advice, and I didn't take it as political or socialist. Yes it can be extremely hard, but often it's not nearly as difficult as we may anticipate. Maybe not as extreme change as he suggests is warranted, but there is usually some way out if we have the determination and imagination and there's no harm in giving a close look at it. In my opinion.
You hit the nail on the head unlike a few others who cannot look at a situation objectively.

Isn't America the land of the free?
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Old 02-06-14, 11:37 AM   #67
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Isn't America the land of the free?
It used to be.
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Old 02-06-14, 11:44 AM   #68
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Why should we have to be scared? Why should we have to drive around a bad part of town? Why should we have to move?
One needn't be scared (not in advance for sure), but it is wise to be cautious and aware of the surroundings. If a neighbourhood is such that a slow moving car is probably someone trying to rob you, it does make sense to move to a safer part of town/country/planet. One can choose to stand up for oneself, but unless it is a joint move of most residents, it is futile - one can't change the town by themselves and going into risky situations (with or without a gun) is a way to live a shorter life.
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Old 02-06-14, 11:46 AM   #69
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Now it's the land of the freeloader.
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Old 02-06-14, 11:57 AM   #70
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is this English?

i speak a few languages and am confused.
My bad -you are a BRIT- require a "USA-E-IN" to English translation
USA-E-INS are very fond of handguns-we shoot one another with great regularity-accidently and intentionally(maybe 100,000/yr shot 10,000/yr killed)
A Glock 27 -very popular handgun-it shoots a 10mm -11 gram projectile- roughly 280 meters per second-
It holds 9 "bullets" usually-but we-USA-Like LOTS of "bullets"-so a higher capacity magazine-13 rounds- is commonly used.
Or he could modify the bottom of the magazine to hold 2 more bullets
USA-E-INS even gun dislikers-would be familiar with a GLOCK-
Rap stars prominently feature Glocks in their music

Oh-Glocks- are thanks to you Europeans- Austrian designer-same story with another Rap Favorite-Sig Sauer(Swiss or maybe german design)
Beretta too- of course.

Big aside-Italian guns-much prettier-no surprise to bike fans-Italians make stylish metal
The Glock-is painfully UGLY -but the Glock 27 is compact and light -good choice for a bike rider
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Old 02-06-14, 12:21 PM   #71
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Actually I think he is American who relocated to Europe some time ago... could be wrong.
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Old 02-06-14, 12:44 PM   #72
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Look, don't get me wrong. Obviously I wasn't there, so I don't know what kind of neighborhood you were in when it all started. Perhaps you did the right thing.

Your story has all the earmarks of a situation where it appears (to me anyways, but I'm an old guy) that whoever was driving the Explorer was just ****ing with you. Once the chase started he/she/they were just having a ball freaking you out. Probably laughing their butt off.

As an old guy I've always thought that one of the benefits of riding a bike are that nobody usually wants to rob you because they figure that if you're riding a bike you likely don't have any money, or else you'd be driving. It seems unlikely that someone wanted to accost someone riding a bicycle, in 6 degree winter weather no less, to rob them of whatever they have on them.

Again, perhaps if I had been there it would make more sense to me. But I still think that there's a good chance that by running you gave them the opportunity to mess with you that they couldn't pass up.
Hmmm I'm also oldish-62-
Not sure what variety of AH you have dealt with in NY-but this doesn't read to me-or anyone who isn't approaching senility-as a prank.
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Old 02-06-14, 01:00 PM   #73
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Anything involving American culture and acidfast has a field day posturing himself as superior to us Yanks.
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Old 02-06-14, 01:05 PM   #74
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I do all of the time except at work as I work for a college.
Wow-that would make it even spookier for me-normally armed-but not armed the one time it would have been helpful!
I rarely actually carry a gun anymore-just when I drive in sketchier areas of NOLA at night
Colleges -almost universally don't allow guns on campus-pointless of course-crazed shooters or criminals not worried about losing their job or being kicked out of school.

You played it smart-close call
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Old 02-06-14, 01:12 PM   #75
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Anything involving American culture and acidfast has a field day posturing himself as superior to us Yanks.
He isn't the only expat Yank on BF who routinely makes "posturing" and/or snide remarks about American culture and/or stereotypes of the product of that culture.
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