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-   -   Do You "Filter"? (http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/934704-do-you-filter.html)

rumrunn6 02-19-14 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1nterceptor (Post 16507115)
"Do You "Filter"?"

Yes, New York City tradition. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0slPl...6zPoymgKaIoDLA


DOOOOOOD! you're not gonna live long doin' that!

Dave Cutter 02-19-14 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aunt Roady (Post 16506994)
Am I not understanding something here? Cutting between two lanes of cars to get to the front of the left turn lane is illegal in my state (Illinois), incredibly rude to drivers and entirely unsafe. What possible justification is there for this behavior? We are to follow the same rules as cars. Period.

I understand the OP's point..... there is no correct answer. Or... rationalize everything. Aunt Roady is correct! Illegal most places, Rude behavior... EVERYWHERE. And... sadly not uncommon for cyclists.

Walter S 02-19-14 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 16509807)
A bit hyperbolic, don't you think? If toxic, teratogenic or carcinogenic chemicals are there when you are sandwiched between motor vehicles, they are there when you are moving. On the other hand, modern motor vehicles (which means anything built after 1975) have catalytic converters that oxidize and greatly reduce the concentration of chemicals coming from car exhaust that fit into those categories.

Fumes are way more concentrated when you're sitting in a cluster of running cars vs. going down the road where everybody is spread out. Catalytic converters probably help. But my nose says it's not safe. And unpleasant too.

spare_wheel 02-19-14 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 16509807)
A bit hyperbolic, don't you think?

Not at all. There is plenty of evidence that proximity and time have a huge effect on vehicle emission risk (and despite some mitigation the risks of this pollution are very significant).

Walter S 02-19-14 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16509889)
I understand the OP's point..... there is no correct answer. Or... rationalize everything. Aunt Roady is correct! Illegal most places, Rude behavior... EVERYWHERE. And... sadly not uncommon for cyclists.

When done correctly filtering gets everybody home faster and is safer for the cyclist. I see nothing rude about that. The cyclist may not be appreciated by motorists that don't understand. But they're still being done a favor by and large.

Giant Doofus 02-19-14 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan (Post 16507659)
if the bike is on the far right or, less likely, far left, there is no lane splitting, you are just a plain vanilla nuisance. :)

Nuts, I was shooting for a mint chocolate chip nuisance. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 16509354)
I think you are misunderstanding my point. When making a right turn in a car or on a bike, moving to the right and proceeding to the light is a perfectly acceptable practice. But if a car driver were to move to the right to the head of the line then jump out in front of the line to proceed straight, how do you think the other drivers would react? If a car were to drive up the right side of a line of cars waiting to turn left and then turn left in front of the line, how would the other drivers react? Road rage would be a mild reaction.

I accept your point about the left turn, but going straight seems different to me. If I can move to the front of the line, staying on the right side of the lane, and then proceed through the light without disrupting the flow of traffic, I can't see how that should incite road rage. I don't think the comparison to what a car would do works in this instance because, well, cars are bigger than bikes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter S (Post 16509927)
When done correctly filtering gets everybody home faster and is safer for the cyclist. I see nothing rude about that. The cyclist may not be appreciated by motorists that don't understand. But they're still being done a favor by and large.

It's funny how many cyclist practices that used to bother/befuddle me before I started riding have become part of my standard practice as a bike commuter. The first time I took the lane because there were too many potholes on the far right, I remember thinking "ah, so that's why they do that!"

wilfried 02-19-14 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 16509843)
http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by 1nterceptorhttp://www.bikeforums.net/images/but...post-right.png"Do You "Filter"?"

Yes, New York City tradition. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0slPl...6zPoymgKaIoDLA





DOOOOOOD! you're not gonna live long doin' that!

Welcome to life in the big city. Filtering is a God given right. Like jaywalking. That said, I generally would not filter between two lanes of traffic. It's kinda scary if traffic decides to move while you're there, particularly if you're wedged next to a bus. I've learned to give buses and trucks respect, and a wide berth. However, filtering to the on the left or right side is a given.

The city has started to put bike boxes at some intersections, so they expect bicycles to move to the front of the line at a stoplight. I don't know how effective these are, and some cycling advocates say they're a bad idea.

Dave Cutter 02-19-14 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter S (Post 16509927)
When done correctly filtering gets everybody home faster and is safer for the cyclist.

An excellent example of a rationalization. I've never seen better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter S (Post 16509927)
I see nothing rude about that.

It's an adjective, means discourteous or impolite. Here's a link

spare_wheel 02-19-14 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilfried (Post 16510060)
That said, I generally would not filter between two lanes of traffic.

IME, it's safer than filtering curb side since you are less likely to be doored or hooked. Gaps are the things I watch out for since they may allow a lane change by an upstream vehicle. In practice, the risk of traffic beginning to move again is low since you should have plenty of advance warning and time to re-insert.

spare_wheel 02-19-14 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16510115)
It's an adjective, means discourteous or impolite. Here's a link

Helping make the commutes of motorists more rapid and pleasant by getting out of their way is rude? You clearly need to re-read the definition you posted.

Dave Cutter 02-19-14 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spare_wheel (Post 16510127)
Helping make the commutes of motorists more rapid and pleasant by getting out of their way is rude? You clearly need to re-read the definition you posted.

You mean.... you know better than the laws? That you, or cyclists in general... should just make-up highway laws as we pedal? PLEASE explain... how putting oneself above the law... is NOT rude (at least).

1nterceptor 02-19-14 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 16509843)
DOOOOOOD! you're not gonna live long doin' that!

I won't? I've been riding in NYC for over 6 years now.This was before all of the bike lanes;
some routes don't have any bicycle infrastructure. Here's another ride from about 4 years ago :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jkf_...6zPoymgKaIoDLA

Giant Doofus 02-19-14 04:06 PM

1nterceptor - that was completely terrifying! I'm clearly not cut out for NYC bike commuting.

Walter S 02-19-14 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16510141)
You mean.... you know better than the laws? That you, or cyclists in general... should just make-up highway laws as we pedal? PLEASE explain... how putting oneself above the law... is NOT rude (at least).

The laws have been made by people without much awareness or sensitivity to the needs of cyclists. I regularly break the law in the interest of safety.

bhop 02-19-14 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1nterceptor (Post 16510144)
I won't? I've been riding in NYC for over 6 years now.This was before all of the bike lanes;
some routes don't have any bicycle infrastructure. Here's another ride from about 4 years ago :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jkf_...6zPoymgKaIoDLA

Sometimes traffic gets like this (and the previous video) in L.A. and I ride the same way. It's really not as scary or dangerous as youtube videos make it seem IMO. Just don't do anything stupid and you'll be fine.

megalowmatt 02-19-14 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 16509838)
OP - good vid - wutz your camera and mount?

I'm using a Contour Roam with the standard mount. I'll try to get a picture of how I mount it on the bars.

It's a pretty good little camera and a bit more low profile than the GoPro.

Dave Cutter 02-19-14 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walter S (Post 16510188)
The laws have been made by people without much awareness or sensitivity to the needs of cyclists. I regularly break the law in the interest of safety.

I am sure you know better than the traffic engineers, police, elected officials, voters ... and all the other polite but otherwise unaware and insensitive people... [that] you share the roads [and everything else] with.

megalowmatt 02-19-14 04:43 PM

Guys - I think one thing to point out is we know what's best for us in a given situation. I mentioned it earlier but there's a different approach I sometimes take to avoid that intersection completely but it involves maybe 200' of salmoning. Depending on traffic that's a much safer approach for me.

We all feel differently about the what we do & how we do it and I have enjoyed hearing the different opinions and explanations.

For those freaking out about the filtering - it's legal here - nobody bats an eye over it. Whether it's safe in the given situation is another story. I felt safe while riding through that intersection, had my eyes on the front wheels of the cars on the left. I do think the perspective of the video adds some drama.

Walter S 02-19-14 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16510141)
That you, or cyclists in general... should just make-up highway laws as we pedal?

Who said anything about making up "rules" as we pedal?? My rules are not rules usually. They're "policies". They form part of a menu of carefully developed strategies that can be selected to fit a given situation. Most intersections I kind of categorize when I glance at it and that immediately has me select my default action for that kind of intersection. The plan is modified by traffic, weather, hills, etc. Then I ride with that working assumption but also reevaluate as I get closer. Always trying for policies that keep me out of harms way or just make for a more pleasant time.

I'm making decisions based on a catalog of policies as I pedal, not "making up laws" as I pedal. Laws are for people to control other people. I'm just concerned with my own behavior. You ride your ride.

Learning in this area is constant. So there is no Law Book. I left that in the dust while I was still a teenager. I'm 53 now and pursuing a direction that I know to be safer and more pleasant not only for me, but for drivers out there too.

I strive to filter in a way that's good for everybody. Filtering can be done in a less thoughtful manner. I don't get it right 100% of the time. If I filtered and then had 20 cars I had just passed get held up in a narrow lane waiting for a way around, that would make me feel bad inside. If something like that happens, as it does once in a while, I pay attention and generally avoid getting caught like that. Especially on my regular commute.

Walter S 02-19-14 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16510274)
I am sure you know better than the traffic engineers, police, elected officials, voters ... and all the other polite but otherwise unaware and insensitive people... [that] you share the roads [and everything else] with.

Correct. Some things are obvious.

Dave Cutter 02-19-14 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megalowmatt (Post 16510279)
Guys - I think one thing to point out is we know what's best for us in a given situation. For those freaking out about the filtering - it's legal here - nobody bats an eye over it.

It's best when different states and/or localities try different things. Then other places can follow when better solutions are found.

I do agree... we all must do what is safest for ourselves. Although... that doesn't always mean fastest or most convenient. Rarely... in my experiences has fastest been the safest. But I'll break the law... and gladly accept a ticket.... if that is what it takes to make it home safe and sound.

dynaryder 02-19-14 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterw_diy (Post 16507669)
If not, hey, who would have expected such attitude from DC? Shocking!

First,filtering is legal in DC,VA,and MD. IOW,'the DC area'.

As for attitude,DC area cyclists are pretty regularly subjected to both ridicule and harassment,both online and IRL. We get blamed for everything,even by the cops;people have been struck by cars and then ticketed in the ER for not wearing a helmet,when the law states you don't need one over 16. And at the end of the day,no-one's been killed by a cyclist since 2009,yet every year drivers kill almost twice as many people as the murder rate. So yeah,we do have some 'tude.

mstraus 02-19-14 06:45 PM

I have to take one of two intersections with a turn lane that offers a similar choice for me on my way home.

I have "filtered" between the turn lane and straight lane, gone in front of the other cars turning, and waited behind cars. It depends on how many cars are there, where in the light cycle when I arrive, if the straight or turn lane goes first, etc.

I tend to evaluate based on what seems safest at the time, and what gets me out of the way of cars the quickest. I have anecdotally observed that drivers are less angry when I go in front and quickly get out of the way enough for them to proceed vs be in the line of cars and slow them down longer.

spare_wheel 02-19-14 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter (Post 16510141)
You mean.... you know better than the laws? That you, or cyclists in general... should just make-up highway laws as we pedal? PLEASE explain...

what you call *LAWS* (biblical clap of thunder) i call minor traffic statutes punishable by nothing (current policy in portland for scofflaw cyclists), a warning, or at most a small financial penalty.

Quote:

how putting oneself above the law... is NOT rude (at least).
in a democratic nation with civil rights putting oneself above unnecessary and/or flawed laws is a civic duty.

Dave Cutter 02-19-14 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spare_wheel (Post 16510646)
..... in a democratic nation with civil rights putting oneself above unnecessary and/or flawed laws is a civic duty.

I sometimes forget that not everyone here at the forum is American. Of course America is a republic. I am sure they do things much differently in your "democratic nation". So nice that in you country they still study civics! So few Americans even remember what "civic duty" actually means.


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