trailmix

You still didn't explain your blatant self contradiction, are you for or against lane sharing?

alan s 

You can point out illogical statements and blatant contradictions, but attempting to get the person to explain themselves coherently is hopeless waste of time.

I-Like-To-Bike

You haven't yet experienced a Close Encounter of the Smug Kind while riding a bicycle passing everybody at warp speed; afterwards, you too might proudly proclaim the same smarmy baloney.

JoeyBike

I am against the TERMINOLOGY, not the concept.

To a cyclist, Lane Sharing means: Motorists and cyclists have EQUAL RIGHTS to the entire lane. If I am there first, it's my lane and motorists should change lanes to get around me. But we don't ride side-by-side in the lane EVER.

To a motorist, Lane Sharing means: When I overtake a cyclist they should SHARE THE LANE meaning, in their minds, I should ride in the gutter or on the sidewalk when they approach me from behind. This is what a non-cyclist would naturally think and evidence shows itself when someone gets "stuck" behind me and upon finally being able to pass they brush me and yell out the window "You're supposed to share the lane!"

I think "Motor Vehicles Change Lanes Completely To Pass" spells out the concept much better than "Share The Lane" which is unclear in meaning to a non cyclist.

I am fine with the cyclist definition of Lane Sharing, and the concept. Does no good unless EVERYONE understands it. And BTW...lane splitting is not lane sharing. If I am on the painted line I am not in a lane.

If you ask the question again I will try to pick different words again.

Cheers!

Sorta like explaining Share The Lane to a motorist.

JoeyBike

May I ask WHY? Or WHY NOT just leave a little earlier? I drive exactly the speed limit on Interstate highways and just stay in the right lane. Been doing that for 40 years with no problems. You get paid by the load or something?

alan s 

Sorry, but you're wrong...if you ride down the line between two lines of cars, your body and bike are actually occupying both lanes. So lane splitting and lane sharing are synonymous. Try again.

Rcrxjlb

You haven't had a car since 1989? You still have a driver's license?

JoeyBike

Yeah, never gave it up. Also keep liability insurance so when I rent cars I don't have to pay extra. My Visa covers any damage the rental car up to full replacement value. So if someone is running a $19.95/day rental special I pay $19.95 a day and no more.

Non-owned vehicular liability insurance is cheap. About $180 every six months in New Orleans which is the most expensive city in the USA to get car insurance.

noglider 

What leads you to ask the questions you're asking me? Do you want me to stop?

noglider 

Smart! I think I'll do the same. I've been meaning to sell my car. I'm hesitating. Or scared. Or something.

JoeyBike

California (legal for motorcycles to split lanes) words it this way:

The term lane splitting, sometimes known as lane sharing, filtering or white-lining, refers to the process of a motorcyclist riding between lanes of stopped or slower moving traffic or moving between lanes to the front of traffic stopped at a traffic light.

In Cali, a motorcyclist can split/share a lane legally. An automobile can not pass a motorcycle the same way by law. Passing a motorcycle is the same as passing another car - change lanes completely. So again, the term Share The Road (or Shared Lanes) is ambiguous, dangerous, and confusing even where it is legal. This is my gripe. "Change lanes completely to pass bicyclist" or "Bicycle may use full lane" are much clearer notions to non-cyclists.

JoeyBike

Not exactly. The reason for speed limits on Interstate highways is to attempt to keep all of the traffic moving at a common relative speed. If everyone drove EXACTLY the speed limit it would be easier to change lanes, merge, and reduce collisions. If some are driving 70mph and others 85mph more lane changes occur which results in more accidents. So if you start driving the speed limit then there will be TWO of us creating a more dangerous situation on the highway driving slower than everyone else!

If we want to change the world for the better, everyone should commit to using their turn signals. I would much prefer that to everyone obeying the posted speed limit.

I do wonder the motivation for all of the wanton speeding on major highways. If you do the math it really does not save significant time, only creates more danger, less time to react, and bunched-up traffic lane changes. NASCAR drivers know what each other are thinking, have mad skills, and willingly take on the risks. The rest of us mortals need posted limits that work for the "least common denominator" of motorists.

SnowJob

Awesome!

When I use our car share I drive the exact same way. Also, tailgating seems like it's pretty much a normal way to drive now. Personally, I can't wait for the robot cars to take over.

noglider 

How do people in Louisiana drive on the highways? In NJ and NY, it's pretty disorderly. There's not a lot of signaling of lane changes going on. There's not a lot of attention paid to who else is on the road. When there is a two lane roadway, one person might pull up beside another at then march speeds, creating a blockade. Then a third person comes up from behind, and the two creating the blockade are unaware of the wishes of the third person. I think this is a lot more dangerous than speed differences.

In fact, I think a certain amount of speed difference acts as lubrication for a roadway. It becomes easier to see what others are likely to do, and it also makes it easier for you to indicate to others what you want to do. Not only that, if drivers practiced lane discipline, a greater number of drivers could go at the speeds of their choosing, whether slow or fast. This reduces stress and increases throughput on the road.

With all of that said, I feel I am safer when I create this kind of lubrication. I think I can see others on the road better and Evy can see me better when I am NOT driving the average speed. On a big highway such as an interstate, I prefer to be one of the fastest or one of the slowest. I sometimes drive at around the speed limit in the right lane. Or I drive faster than about 80% or 90% of the drivers. If I'm going fast, stay as far to the right as I can, leaving room for others to pass me on my left.

JoeyBike

Louisiana Interstate drivers are pretty decent and many are considerate. Most go 10mph over the limit when they can. I find it random really. One day everyone acts amazingly cool, the next day totally hateful

alan s 

So you now agree lane splitting and lane sharing are the same thing. You are opposed to lane sharing, but in favor of lane splitting. Interesting.

JoeyBike

Lane splitting puts the more vulnerable vehicle in total control of the situation. He/she can split or choose not to split. "Lane Share" as most motorists understad it puts the least skilled operator and most dangerous vehicle in control. I dont like the second part.

I feel like I am a fairly skilled driver. I am certainly alert, awake, sober, and not looking at a phone. Yet I never pass a cyclist without completely changing lanes or giving him/her 10 feet if the lanes are really wide. It's not that hard to leave a cyclist some space.

loky1179

Wow - that's both funny and depressing. A 65 year old cartoon nails driver mentality, right down to the "I pay for these roads" justification.

Thanks for sharing!

alan s 

Brick wall, meet head.

spare_wheel

despite your fixation on trivial semantics, joey's point about lane splitting by two wheeled traffic vs lane sharing by 4 wheel traffic makes complete sense to me. the fact that so many motorists believe that they must/can stay in a lane when passing a cyclist is, imo, the epitome of failed bike advocacy. the "share the lane" slogan has likely contributed to quite a few unnecessary deaths.

Booger1

In California, if you split lanes on a motorcycle and get hit,YOUR at fault.It's legal to split lanes but your fair game to automobiles.

CenturionIM

On highways, I have observed that cars travel in packs. For example I often see a very tightly packed group of cars driving at ~80mph fighting with each other to get ahead, but rarely do the "winner" pull away, at 90mph for example. So what happens is they just fight and fight to be in front while in reality they are sticking pretty close to each other; these packs creating hazardous road conditions and I try to avoid them. Majority of drivers cannot seem to recollect in driving 101 you are supposed to maintain speed and keep your distance.

I usually try to drive 5mph slower than the packs. After the "pack" goes through, I can drive in peace in this "vacuum zone" (where I am the only car) for about 5mins until the next group comes through.

City driving is simpler. Go with the flow, stay close to speed limit; watch out for other crazy drivers, peds, cyclists as so I will not hit anyone. And most importantly: f- the guy behind you, safety first.

JoeyBike

Not exactly. There are laws forbidding motorists from throwing their doors open or in any way interfering - on purpose - with someone splitting lanes. It's right there in the vehicle code.

JoeyBike

Thanks SW...I was treading water best I could on this thread. Now that a third party has proven my words were readable and my thoughts understandable I can go do something else.

Cheers!

imi

I'm with Joey on this one.
It's all about safety.
The way he drives a car should be the ONLY way that anyone ever drives a car.
To speed, tailgate, drive recklessly etc should be treated as serious crimes, same as DUI as they endanger other people's lives

Given the reality of all the irresponsible, incompetent car drivers on the roads, choosing to ride a bike the way Joey does is a way to stay safe.

Personally I ride more law-abiding, but utterly understand someone with the legs for it riding such in heavy traffic.

Funny seeing people get their knickers in such a twist about this