alan s 

I had a bike commuter blast me with an air zound while trying to pass me at the same time I was passing another cyclist. That's right, 3 wide on a MUP. Now that ticked me off a bit. If I had known he was going to pass and had taken appropriate action to make room, no problem, but to blast someone out of the blue was just ridiculous.

kickstart

How do you know what others are thinking?
"drivers who purposefully pass me too closely"?

I suppose there may be drivers who feel compelled to "punish" cyclists for some real or imagined wrong doing by passing with minimal space, but its far more likely those "drivers who purposefully pass me too closely" just have different spatial perceptions than you, after all is said and done, they didn't hit you.

That said, I'm only human, I've used a horn or high beam to "voice my displeasure" with other road users too. To answer your question, it goes back to my other post, what's ones motivation for having it in the first place, to punish, or communicate?

FWIW, My Robin Hood has a Klaxon horn, and I'm probably going to put an air horn on my Ross porteur.

PatrickGSR94

When a motorist comes up behind very closely, lays on the horn, then roars by with inches to spare, it's pretty clear that the close pass was on purpose.

Leisesturm

The real straw man is that this was ever about safety. Multiple posts in this very thread allude to horn use as "punishment" which is exactly as I suspected.

Leisesturm

When vehicular cyclists are eventually banned from mixing with motorized road traffic wholesale, I hope some of you will remember this period of relative tolerance. There will NEVER be as extensive a network of MUP's and/or barrier protected cycling paths to rival the existing networks of surface streets that carry motorized traffic. To ride in traffic on roads without striped off bicycle lanes is to frequently find oneself in close juxtaposition with motor traffic. 3' ... ... if you need cars to pass you with 3' .. IMO you are not cut out for vehicular cycling in large metropolitan areas. You just aren't. That isn't bad, it isn't good. It is what it is. Cars pass each other with much less than that thousands of times a day. I GET that it feels uncomfortable! But it is... what it is. PLENTY of people make the decision NOT TO RIDE in those conditions. I cannot fault them. I don't fault them. For myself, however, and for quite a number of others, we DEAL with the conditions as they are and do not spend a lot of time advocating for a utopian infrastructure which is unsupportable. Very few cyclists are hit by parallel traffic! The majority of cyclists are hurt in crosswalks. I am not really sure what they were doing in the cross walk in the first place! They probably did not feel safe in the road so they took their chances with the peds. A quick look at the pedestrian injury statistics shows the failure of that strategy. Just ride. Or not. It really is that simple.

H

PatrickGSR94

The large majority of car traffic passes each other with WAY MORE than 3 feet of space, because each car uses their own lane and doesn't try to crowd into another lane with another car. 4-5 feet of clearance, or more, is typical in most places.

Since I ride center or just left of center in the right lane, cars change lanes to pass me with 6+ feet of clearance, all day every day.

3FP laws wouldn't be needed if not for stupid FTR/FRAP laws.

Annnnnnd this is now venturing into A&S territory.

kickstart

That's such a rare occurrence its not worth worrying about.

Medic Zero

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Okay, after lots of fun issues with my camera and computer I've got a couple of not very good photos for the photo request. Hopefully I can size these reasonably, they are still acting funny.
If they are too huge or something, someone say something and I'll attempt to fix them.

Couple things first, when I set this up almost three years ago, it was perfect. I could trigger the Airzoundz button by moving only my thumb from where it was already resting on the handlebar grip or the rapid fire trigger shifter. No repositioning of my hand, just thumb movement. Late this summer the shifter pod died while we were out of town on a short bed and breakfast tour. A local bike mechanic was able to have me on the road again quickly and inexpensively, but what he had in stock for shifters for me was a separate unit. This added another clamp to my handlebar, pushing the horn towards the center of the handlebars a little ways. It was basically right where the shift pod clamp is now. Frustrating for me as it now isn't quite so handy to reach, but this bikes replacement is in the stand being built up, so I'm just putting up with it. The horn is also more effective if the bell is upright, but it's kind of wedged where it's at now, and it's still plenty loud, just not quite as loud as it could be.




The other thing you should know about this picture is that rubber band. Because I've mounted the horn upside down in order to get it as close as possible to where my thumb naturally is, any time I flip the bike over upside down to rest it on the saddle and handlebars, the horn needs to come off. The horn unit itself kind of clips into place onto a plastic clamp similar to many bike headlights use. Over time, the lips of the clamp became worn and the clamp is now loose, the rubber band works well to keep it in place. I'd just get a new one, but this bike is about to be retired anyway, I'll just ride it this way another month or so until I finally finish its replacement. This is the first time I've had this little issue with Airzoundz clamps, but I blame myself. I know that instead of popping the horn unit free before flipping the bike over, many times I just trusted that it'd pop free on its own or just forgot about it there. I'm pretty sure that if you are just careful to manually dismount the horn (very quick and easy, a little leverage and it pops free) before setting the bike on top of it (!) you won't have any issues with the mount.





Because my other water bottle cages are usually occupied, I added a cage on my downtube. The air horn's vessel weighs essentially nothing so just about any method of affixing another cage here works. I've done it with zip ties on a beater bike. Here, I tried the Zefal plastic zipper-like clamps made for this purpose. They were inexpensive, but I'm not sure they would've worked if I didn't glue them together. On my new build, I went with the classic minimalist aluminum bands (very inexpensive) and found them to mount up very easily and firmly. I haven't put any miles on that method of mounting yet, but it seems very secure and looks good. Oh, and the black clamp closest to the headtube isn't associated with the accessory cage, that's for the front wheel stabilizer, ignore it as far as Airzoundz style horns are concerned.



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kickstart

The use of lights, bells, and horns on vehicles predates bicycles and motor vehicles by a long shot which demonstrates beyond question their validity as useful communication devices. That a few choose to misuse them has no bearing on that fact.

Medic Zero

I'd be pissed. That is ridiculous!

In more than a decade of riding with an air horn, I've never blasted a pedestrian (yet, occasionally it is tempting), and the only times I've ever blasted another cyclist was people I knew when I was a courier. It was a gag between us and still rather rude. Oh, I take that back, I did use a short toot on it at fairly long distance on some darkwads blocking the bridge path who weren't responding to my bell and lights. That's it. The horn should basically be reserved for communicating with automobiles.

Medic Zero

My (and many others) experience differently.

Leisesturm

The very same could be said of ****. And? What? I'm not disputing this, I'm just saying that until this thread I had never actually heard anyone admit that they use their horns to "startle", "punish", "alarm" or otherwise do anything beyond preserve their 'safety' in the face of a developing crisis. After 45 years in NYC and 5 in Oregon I had reason to drive through California year before last. As it happens I hit the 405 right at the start of rush hour. OMG... nothing could have prepared me for this. I was driving a substantial rental truck and the incredible display of violations of right of way, lane splitting, speeding and illegal occupation of the HOV lane... ... OMG... it was all I could do to keep moving and not pull over and call roadside assistance. Only later did it occur to me that in all that time, in all that mayhem and madness... I didn't hear a single horn!!! In NYC drivers lay on the horn for minutes at a time for lapses and offenses by other drivers that the California drivers simply responded to by moving out of the way! Even though wreckers were perched on the service lane like vultures waiting for something to die I never did see any actual wrecks. Dozens of near misses... OMG... do you get how deeply this brief experience of L.A. traffic affected me? Two years later its like I lived it yesterday. But what I KNOW, is that horn use is very much a voluntary function. Places like NYC, and NJ where horn use is almost constant have simply incorporated horn use into the overall road-culture. I doubt accident rates are any better in NYC for all that horn use.

H

Medic Zero

Never going to happen. I wouldn't even bother to argue this one with you. Your behavior is strikes me as trollish and you are derailling a thread about a piece of equipment that commuters use with your ridiculous statements and arguments.

Medic Zero

I have no idea what your post has to do with bicycling, but an Airzoundz requires pumping up, and isn't nearly as effective after you've used a blast or two until you refill it, which is best accomplished with a floor pump. No one using an Airzoundz style horn is going to be too cavalier with using it, because you quickly don't have a good blast available if you need it in an emergency.

kickstart

I'm surprised our experiences seem to be different considering we're so close to each other.

I'm about ready to get a airzound, my one concern is if it leaks down quickly or holds pressure over time.
I don't want to have to pump it up every couple of days even if I don't use it. I don't foresee using it very often, and if all I get is a weak squeak because I didn't charge it recently, it kinda defeats the purpose of having it.

Medic Zero

I reread the quote and have to say I missed the part about the honking horn. I don't experience that part almost ever, but I get buzzed daily. I find my experiences vary quite a bit by neighborhood. When I lived in Greenwood and commuted to First Hill I don't recall it being a problem. About a year ago I moved to just south of West Seattle and I've found that some of the outlying areas are either very car centric and not used to seeing bikes on the road, or industrial areas that have high speed limits and no bike facilities. I'm pretty much forced onto a 35 MPH road that everyone drives 45+ on and then have a mile and half or so through an industrial area, right when everyone is getting off work at 5PM. That leg of it also includes having to ride through a freeway offramp and staying in the left hand lane of traffic as cars want to merge through it to the left (appearing turn lane) and/or continue going 50+ MPH. Here is where I get the most jerks, but after this area I'm often traversing 1st Ave South/4th Ave S and briefly on Airport Way at its northern terminus, and up Jackson, all at rush hour. In all of these areas I experience drivers being aggressive, including being buzzed. I also experience a whole lot of people being quite courteous, but in these areas and the high speed residential areas around my home I encounter WAY more people acting like jerks than in the city's core and neighborhoods more used to bikes or with slower speed roadways. Before anyone suggests another route, I've poured over the maps for hours, and I happen to live in between a freeway, a high speed road, a river and a bluff, and limited rail and river crossings, with only one road leading to the north, and that's the road through the highway offramp. I'll be moving as soon as we can save enough...

Mine still holds air just fine after almost three years of being continuously charged. I keep it pumped up to 120 PSI. I usually top it off every other or third day if I haven't used it, but that's because I want the most amount of blast available. IIRC, even at 85 PSI, you still get one decent blast out of it and I think this about the level mine hovers around it if the bike actually sits for a week or two. Two quick strokes with my floor pump is usually all I need to top it off though, and since the filler is under the button, it's very convenient to reach/access as long as your floor pump has a long enough hose. Just top it off when you top off your tires, unless you are running fat tires and letting them run down from 60's to 30's.

I haven't ever had any problems with the vessels and I've got another Airzoundz in a box somewhere that was on another bike for several years about a decade ago, I expect it still works.


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kickstart

My favorite bike shop is Aarons bike repair in White Center, I often ride the south Seattle area, and find it more bike friendly than the Covington/Maple Valley area where I live, but still, overall I have very few incidents of being buzzed.
I suspect that I may be far more tolerant of being passed closely than average, if they don't hit me and I don't need to take evasive action its a good pass in my book.


I ordered one today, so I guess I'll find out.
I have a compressor so really its not a big deal, but its in the shop, and the bikes are in the house.........in a hurry in the morning......tired when I get home at night.....

unterhausen

I only rarely use my horn in my car and actually having one on the bike seems like it would be more useful. I have more people start to pull out in front of me on my bike than in my car, just as one example. I used to ride with a guy that had one, and I always hated it when someone would cut us off because I knew I was going to get to listen to the airzound. OTOH, he reported saving himself from a couple near-misses as well.

Leisesturm

I suspect that you have a fair amount of skill at this biking in traffic thing. I am sure that when someone does pull out in front of you that, no matter what you are driving, bike or car, your immediate response is to brake hard. Insurance companies are pretty much in agreement that it doesn't matter much how it happened, if you were the vehicle that was behind, you are at greater fault (as much as 100% at fault) in an accident. Of course, the blast of your horn made the other guy swerve back into his lane. But you also grabbed double handfuls of brake, and if he had been completely deaf (a greater percent of drivers are deaf than you know, as much as 8%) or listening to Crosby, Stills and Nash at top volume, he would totally cut you off and be on his merry way none the wiser. Your horn didn't save you, your reflexes did. I'll bet money that your friends reflexes have saved him much more (as much as 100% more) than his air horn.

H

Leisesturm

How do you reconcile the existence of tens of thousands of other cyclists, who have commuted as long as you, in your very locale, without major incident, and without even the assistance of a dingy bell . After 10 years you should not even need the bell, statistically the longer one is a cyclist the better their outcomes with respect to accidents. Admit it, you use your horn as much as you do, because you can. Not because you actually NEED to. That's alright. Just own it. My only issue is that cyclists have so thoroughly poisoned the general public to the cause by the incessant whining that they do and the over the top visual displays and the escalating use of high decibel horns, some of which are not air powered and can be used repeatedly without fade. All in some beknighted quest for 'safety'. Safety which is already present (or not), but is ignored mainly because of contrarian viewpoints which paint safe maneuvers as unsafe and vice versa.

H

kickstart

And then there's those of us who have done many years without said devices without major issues, but have an open mind and are willing to try new yet old ideas, and find they do serve a useful function, improving the overall riding experience.

I also won't melt in the rain, but choose to wear a rain jacket anyway........

PatrickGSR94

Leisesturm I am tiring of your antagonistic posts. Do you really have to find fault with everything anyone posts on here?

Leisesturm

Says the man who is openly contemptuous of the way 90% of the cycling public rides. What is upsetting you is that I have a point and you can't stand that. So sorry for you. But I am not attacking you personally.

scroca

The horn somehow allows one to experience rage? You are not saying the horn causes one to experience rage, but that they couldn't experience it without a horn. Incredible.

So you don't have a horn in your car? Or you don't have a car, but if you did, you would disable it?

The worth of your post speaks for itself.

Medic Zero

I don't know what your problem is, but for someone who tried to impune others for knowing what is in drivers heads, you sure seam to enjoy making a lot of assumptions about why other people do things.