Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Commuting (http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/)
-   -   How do I get quicker on acceleration? (http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/940319-how-do-i-get-quicker-acceleration.html)

caloso 03-27-14 01:10 PM

Just like the 41, where everyone wants to argue about the transmission when the much bigger factor is the engine.

RPK79 03-27-14 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16617157)
Just like the 41, where everyone wants to argue about the transmission when the much bigger factor is the engine.

Maybe the issue is the fuel and the OP should eat more bananas.

Or

Maybe the issue is the oil/lubrication and the OP should use Chain L.

DunderXIII 03-27-14 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moochems (Post 16617212)
Don't forget, presta valves are faster!

Stickers with flames :-)

fietsbob 03-27-14 01:35 PM

Rocket assist in the back pack ..

I-Like-To-Bike 03-27-14 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moochems (Post 16617212)
Don't forget, presta valves are faster!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DunderXIII (Post 16617218)
Stickers with flames :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 16617223)
Rocket assist in the back pack ..

All these replies to the OP's question are just as useful as recommending a fixed gear single speed as the answer. But at least these 3 posters are not serious.

All that is lacking is a 'bent fan-boy to suggest that getting bent is the answer.;)

acidfast7 03-27-14 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan s (Post 16617132)
For now, but when your knees are shot, you'll be much slower.

my knees won't shoot.

44/16 fo' life

mstraus 03-27-14 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acidfast7 (Post 16616989)
Because human nature is to take the easy way out.

Not having the ability to access the easy option is excellent training as the last few reps count the most.


Agree people will often take the easy way out and a single speed is great for training, but that does not change that geared bike without shifting can emulate a single speed.

Regardless, I really don't think the OP wants to buy a new bike just to accelerate faster, I think he is more interested in technique or training tips for faster acceleration.

duckbill 03-27-14 02:14 PM

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.6080...=10_30&pid=1.7

CharlyAlfaRomeo 03-27-14 02:21 PM

Deadlifts, squats, box jumps, standing starts.

Giant Doofus 03-27-14 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrickards (Post 16616904)
What you're talking about is power vs strength. Strength will keep you going faster both on flat courses as well as up hills and also over the distance whereas power will allow for increased acceleration. (Technically, going up a hill is acceleration too but, depending on the slope, it would be a blend of strength and power). I'm reading about weight training for cyclists and it includes routines to improve power (if you're interested, I can get the info to you but you'll have to wait until tomorrow).

This makes sense to me. I'm able to sustain myself for long rides and up hills just fine. The issue is when I need a quick burst of power. I'd be grateful to see the material you have when you have time. I ordinarily only do body weight type exercises (yoga, lunges, etc.), but I'm curious to see what you have.

alan s 03-27-14 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acidfast7 (Post 16617311)
my knees won't shoot.

44/16 fo' life

By the time you notice, it'll be too late, but you can always get knee replacements.

acidfast7 03-27-14 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan s (Post 16617450)
By the time you notice, it'll be too late, but you can always get knee replacements.

lol ... you're underestimating me ... i'm as tough as they come!

Giant Doofus 03-27-14 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16616929)
We call this improving your jump. Here is a set that my coach has me do as crit season heats up.

From a standing start (or as close as you can manage), do 10 sets of 15" intervals. Five from the small (or middle ring), say 39x16 or so. Hit it hard and wind it up as fast as you can go. Don't shift. You should feel like you're spinning as fast as possible at the end of the 15".

Now do five from the big ring, say 53x15 or so. Again, hit it hard and don't shift. On these you'll really struggle to turn the pedals over for the first five or so revs. Then focus on getting on top of the gear and turning the mash into spin.

These are inherently high intensity intervals so I wouldn't do these more often than twice a week, at least to start.

I'll try this on my next recreational ride. What do you mean by 15"? Is that 15 seconds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgw4jc (Post 16616982)
Don't forget about a strong push off too. Don't just lift the planted leg and start pedaling. Lean into it a bit and push off with the planted foot like a runner would on a starting block.

Another thought - don't sweat it. If you're talking about stop lights, you have the right of way on the green. If you're having to cross at stop signs and have narrow windows, consider turning right, and then taking the lane to turn left somewhere for an eventual U-turn. Better to be safe than rely on a quick start where your foot could slip off the pedal or something.

I didn't think of using my foot on the ground to push off! "Don't sweat it" is pretty good advice too. I had my foot slip off the pedal once because I was trying so hard to mash down. It really rattled me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhbernhardt (Post 16617119)
If you want to do REALLY fast standing starts, ride the track. Get a track coach to show you how to do a real standing start. There is a definite technique to it. Watch youtube videos of standing starts on the track to see how it's done. You need to use your whole body. The biggest secret is to drive your hips forward, like you're humping the stem of your bike. With this technique, you can start just as fast in a big gear as someone trying to spin up a smaller gear. You can also use this technique on steep climbs, so it's worth knowing.

Luis

Thanks. I'lll look at a couple of videos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlyAlfaRomeo (Post 16617369)
Deadlifts, squats, box jumps, standing starts.

Thanks.

Thanks for the good advice, everyone. I'll keep working on it, but I'm not going with a single speed. I'm a wimp on hills :/

spare_wheel 03-27-14 03:10 PM

i was going to pontificate but caloso and lbernhardt pretty much nailed it.

caloso 03-27-14 05:25 PM

15" means 15 seconds. Sorry for the shorthand. Note that these will put a fair amount of stress on both the bike and the rider so make sure both are in good working order first.

I also neglected to mention that these are meant to be done out of the saddle and in the drops. If you don't have drop bars, just get as low as reasonably possible.

cogdriven 03-27-14 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstraus (Post 16616879)
How is this any faster then just starting a geared bike in a similar gear ratio to your single speed instead of downshifting? With gears at least you have the option. Understand single speed is less maintenance, moving parts, etc. but I don't see how this will make it faster in this case.

You can do it that way on a geared bike, but that's not how most people accelerate with gears. On a single speed you are in that situation all the time and are going to be faster than you would be with gears. This is especially true on a fixed gear. You never spin out until you're going a lot faster than you'll get in an intersection. There is always resistance to your pedal stroke and you don't get that chain slap that you might expect if you tried this on a geared bike in too low a gear.
Don't take my word for it. See if you can borrow a fixie and try it yourself. The advantages really show in traffic, when you need to get from 20 to 30 ASAP.

jrickards 03-27-14 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant Doofus (Post 16617448)
This makes sense to me. I'm able to sustain myself for long rides and up hills just fine. The issue is when I need a quick burst of power. I'd be grateful to see the material you have when you have time. I ordinarily only do body weight type exercises (yoga, lunges, etc.), but I'm curious to see what you have.

According to "Weight Training for Cyclists, Eric Schmitz and Ken Doyle, 1998", the best method, but is recommended only for people who have been weight training for at least a year (for the sake of knowledge and experience), is the Power Clean routine. However, they also recommend plyometric routines: bounding (30m/yd, 5), single-leg hops (30m/yd 5x/leg), stadium hops (10-20 steps, 5x), single-leg push-offs (5-10x/leg) and squat jumps (5-10x). The basic idea is that you put explosive effort into pushing with your legs, just like the training that @caloso suggested for on the bike. Also, according to the book, the power phase of the training is to occur during the month of March (GET TO IT!!!!) prior to a month of endurance training and then maintenance training through the cycling season. Power training, from the sounds of it, is tough on your legs.

Good luck with it.

mstraus 03-27-14 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogdriven (Post 16617966)
You can do it that way on a geared bike, but that's not how most people accelerate with gears. On a single speed you are in that situation all the time and are going to be faster than you would be with gears. This is especially true on a fixed gear. You never spin out until you're going a lot faster than you'll get in an intersection. There is always resistance to your pedal stroke and you don't get that chain slap that you might expect if you tried this on a geared bike in too low a gear.
Don't take my word for it. See if you can borrow a fixie and try it yourself. The advantages really show in traffic, when you need to get from 20 to 30 ASAP.

Interesting (but still not what the OP is looking for). I have a number of friends that ride fixies and single speeds, but I haven't since I was a kid (single speed). Unfortunately my normal routes involve way to many hills to make a single speed practical, but I guess I could always pick up a cheap one for recreation and round town riding and then use it for some training.

PatrickGSR94 03-27-14 07:31 PM

Yeah I almost always end up starting from a dead stop in the 34x17 gear, and clipping in causes the biggest delay. If you can learn to trackstand that's the fastest way to get off the line.

Check this out:


Giant Doofus 03-27-14 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16617907)
15" means 15 seconds. Sorry for the shorthand. Note that these will put a fair amount of stress on both the bike and the rider so make sure both are in good working order first.

I also neglected to mention that these are meant to be done out of the saddle and in the drops. If you don't have drop bars, just get as low as reasonably possible.

Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll try to do this one day this weekend. My bike has flat handlebars, but I'll see what I can do.

Giant Doofus 03-27-14 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrickards (Post 16618211)
According to "Weight Training for Cyclists, Eric Schmitz and Ken Doyle, 1998", the best method, but is recommended only for people who have been weight training for at least a year (for the sake of knowledge and experience), is the Power Clean routine. However, they also recommend plyometric routines: bounding (30m/yd, 5), single-leg hops (30m/yd 5x/leg), stadium hops (10-20 steps, 5x), single-leg push-offs (5-10x/leg) and squat jumps (5-10x). The basic idea is that you put explosive effort into pushing with your legs, just like the training that @caloso suggested for on the bike. Also, according to the book, the power phase of the training is to occur during the month of March (GET TO IT!!!!) prior to a month of endurance training and then maintenance training through the cycling season. Power training, from the sounds of it, is tough on your legs.

Good luck with it.

Interesting. I'll Google to get some instructions on those plyometric moves and might add a few of those to my routine. I don't need to worry about "the cycling season" because I'm a year rounder. Thanks for the specifics.

oops - I just realized that you provided links to you tube videos. Thanks!

gregf83 03-27-14 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moochems (Post 16617130)
Racers of the sprinting variety use fixed gear, no?

Only if they're forced to, i.e. racing on a track. A fixed gear bike might be a good training aid but a rider will never be faster or more efficient on a fixed gear bike. A geared bike provides more variety and better training options than a fixed gear bike. You can do on the bike strength training by doing big gear standing starts or riding up a hill at high power and 50RPM. You can do this with a fixed gear if the hill is just right but you have far more flexibility with a geared bike.

stanleyl 03-28-14 12:02 AM

Here is what I "power start" at intersections: Start at 1 gear lower than my usual starting gear. Keep spinning up and shifting quickly until getting to the desired speed. I found hill climbing helpful in gaining more core and muscle strength to help my start.

AlTheKiller 03-28-14 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogdriven (Post 16617966)
You can do it that way on a geared bike, but that's not how most people accelerate with gears. On a single speed you are in that situation all the time and are going to be faster than you would be with gears. This is especially true on a fixed gear. You never spin out until you're going a lot faster than you'll get in an intersection. There is always resistance to your pedal stroke and you don't get that chain slap that you might expect if you tried this on a geared bike in too low a gear.
Don't take my word for it. See if you can borrow a fixie and try it yourself. The advantages really show in traffic, when you need to get from 20 to 30 ASAP.

Coming from a guy who commuted solely by fixed gear for two years... Um, you are wrong. You are imagining a perceived benefit which does not exist. Yes, that style of riding, staying in a decent gear and either mashing or spinning can be quite useful. However you can do it on a geared bike. Good riders on a geared bike who understand both their bike and themselves will always be more efficient and faster in street scenarios compared to a fixed gear. There is simply no basis for the assumption that fixed gears are somehow better even though they extremely limit your ability to adapt to the scenario.

cyccommute 03-28-14 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16617907)
15" means 15 seconds. Sorry for the shorthand. Note that these will put a fair amount of stress on both the bike and the rider so make sure both are in good working order first.

I also neglected to mention that these are meant to be done out of the saddle and in the drops. If you don't have drop bars, just get as low as reasonably possible.

"...And oh how they danced
The little children of Stone'enge..."

I think you are having a Spinal Tap moment...unless you are really slow getting off the line. My grandmother was faster than fifteen inches in 15 seconds...and she was using a stroller!;)

You are off on the distanced covered in 15 seconds. It would depend on the rate of acceleration and time. Consider: If you were crossing a 4 lane intersection, that's about 60ft. If the final speed is 15mph, the acceleration is 4 ft/sec and the distance is covered in 3.7 seconds. That's a leisurely pace. Assuming that you stop accelerating once you hit 15mph, in 15 seconds you will have reached 112 feet. If you accelerate at 7 ft/sec to 20 mph, you'd cover that distance in around 2 seconds and you'd have reached 150 feet in 15 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cogdriven (Post 16617966)
You can do it that way on a geared bike, but that's not how most people accelerate with gears. On a single speed you are in that situation all the time and are going to be faster than you would be with gears. This is especially true on a fixed gear. You never spin out until you're going a lot faster than you'll get in an intersection. There is always resistance to your pedal stroke and you don't get that chain slap that you might expect if you tried this on a geared bike in too low a gear.
Don't take my word for it. See if you can borrow a fixie and try it yourself. The advantages really show in traffic, when you need to get from 20 to 30 ASAP.

mstraus has it right. A single speed bike has no advantages over a multigeared bike in terms of acceleration or speed. A single speed is limited to what speed you can get out of that single gear. Once the rider hits a maximum rpm at the cranks, they don't have any more ability to accelerate. On a geared bike, I can change gears and accelerate even further. I could do the same as you can on a single speed and not shift but why would I want to do that?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:08 AM.