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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by TransitBiker View Post
    It's actually illegal to flip someone off & you can be cited for simple assault where i live.
    Nonsense.

    http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/th...ddlefinger.pdf

    The digitus impudicus is protected speech. In fact, the easiest way to 50-100 grand of free cash is to be arrested by a LEO for giving them the finger. It happens all the time and governments keep on paying massive fines. Then again LE is not known for its intelligence or its comprehension of the law...


    I think it's along the same lines legally as no swearing in front of minors (citation).
    These laws are not constitutional and the ACLU always wins when they are challenged in court. Of course this does not stop small-minded people from trying to limit free speech.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  2. #127
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    How many times? More than twenty, fewer than two hundred.

    When I was younger I would save my energy, chase the offending motorist down and give him/her a piece of my mind. And now that I'm in my fifties, and I'm a pastor in a fairly small city I usually have the good sense to think before I flip. Sometimes I don't think quickly enough to stop and I just react.
    "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." Emerson

  3. #128
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Nonsense.

    http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/th...ddlefinger.pdf

    The digitus impudicus is protected speech. In fact, the easiest way to 50-100 grand of free cash is to be arrested by a LEO for giving them the finger. It happens all the time and governments keep on paying massive fines. Then again LE is not known for its intelligence or its comprehension of the law...




    These laws are not constitutional and the ACLU always wins when they are challenged in court. Of course this does not stop small-minded people from trying to limit free speech.
    Touche... With a bit of digging i found that up till 2011 public swearing and flipping the bird was a class 3 misdemeanor in PA. Boy, i gotta keep up on these things!

    But.. regardless of that, or what is deemed legal, people should have enough sense & respect to act civilized...

    - Andy
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    please provide a link where a cyclist was assaulted specifically because they gave a motorist who did something dangerous/illegal the finger.
    If you don't believe that flipping a bird pisses people off, and that some people get violent when they are pissed off, I suggest you just reflect on that position a little bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    the finger is protected free speech. i have even given LE officers the finger a few times (and very deservedly so on both occasions).
    Ooooh. I'm impressed

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    If you don't believe that flipping a bird pisses people off, and that some people get violent when they are pissed off
    honking pisses people off too. and yet...somehow...i almost never hear scary stories about someone having a *** pointed at them because they honked at someone who drove in a dangerous manner.

    and that some people get violent when they are pissed off
    if every cager who is pissed off became violent natural selection would rapidly make our roads safer for cycling.


    I suggest you just reflect on that position a little bit.
    done.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    honking pisses people off too. and yet...somehow...i almost never hear scary stories about someone having a *** pointed at them because they honked at someone who drove in a dangerous manner.
    You hear scary stories because flipping a bird is more insulting.

    Honking has an ambiguous meaning, as mild as "attention please". Flipping a bird is generally understood to mean FU. That excites people more.

  7. #132
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    Never. I value my life and there are far too many nutjobs out there.
    Currently riding a 2013 Handsome Devil custom build and an 80's Takara Highlander (MTB built in the style of an 82-84 Stumpjumper).

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    Flipping a bird is generally understood to mean FU.
    I'll remember that the next time I visit GA (e.g. never).
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  9. #134
    Senior Member Pliny the Elder's Avatar
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    I haven't done that in a long time but did it last week on my bike. Was in the left lane about to get in the left turn lane and a driver behind me started honking. He then went to the right lane and cut right in front of me almost hitting me, that's when I flipped him off. We were both stopped at the light both about to turn left. I was staring at him and he was too scared/ashamed(?) to even look at me. Normally I wouldn't do that but when you have little time to think/react sometimes that happens.

  10. #135
    Tawp Dawg GriddleCakes's Avatar
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    Honesty time? Oh my, here goes...

    I have flipped off and cussed out motorists countless times, as in I never kept track and, looking back, I can only guess; definitely dozens, possibly hundreds. I started bike commuting in my early 20s, in a not very bike friendly city (I love you Anchorage, in part because you've come so far), rode very aggressively, usually with an earbud full of heavy metal music, fully aware of my rights but totally ignorant of my responsibilities as two wheeled road user, and utterly dismissive of the consequences of my actions. If you honked at me, I gave you the bird (I once utterly perplexed a buddy of mine after he gave me a 'Hello!' honk from his car, and I automatically flipped him off). If I slapped your car (a formerly regular occurrence), and you honked at me, I gave you the bird. If we came close to colliding, and it was your fault, I gave you the bird, as soon as my hands were done braking; and even if it was my fault, I probably still gave you the bird, because **** you, you planet killing *******, I'm on a bike.

    At some point, I grew up. I stopped listening to aggressive, angry music, not just on the bike, but everywhere; it just has no place in my life anymore. I began to consider the consequences of my actions, and, more importantly, the emotional response of others to my behavior. As an antisocial, angry introvert, by acting out my emotions onto the traffic flow, I was helping make traffic a more miserable place for everyone, including myself. My negative emotional responses to the stresses of bike commuting were feeding the negative perception I was developing of bike commuting, and I had no one but myself to blame. You'll encounter *******s no matter how you commute, it's how you deal with it that shapes your experience.

    So I began to reflect on what being a urban cyclist meant to me, and just what it was that I wanted out the experience. I thought on what I disliked about biking: the feeling of being ostracized or hated by the vast majority of road users, the negative emotional feedback of resentment to the those feelings, and the insulation caused by wrapping myself in a self-righteous, anti-motorist anger as a defense mechanism from those feelings. I thought about what it was that I loved about biking: the regular exercise, the occasional adrenaline rush, the open air, the increased awareness of the world around me, and the generally positive mental state the these feelings brought me. I decided that if I focused on the positive and did my best to shrug off the negative, I'd become a more mentally healthy person. If someone honked, I'd wave, like I misunderstood that they were just saying 'hi'. I rode more defensively, with less emphasis on "push it" and more on "flow with it". When, later in life, I came across Robert Hurst's "The Art of Cycling", it was a combination of "**** yeah, I figured it out!" and "why didn't I discover this five years ago?".

    Anyway, it totally worked, in every way imaginable. I had way fewer close calls (mostly because I changed my riding style), I shrugged off things that used to make my blood boil (so my blood boiled less), and, an unforeseen benefit, I became more aware of the positive interactions that I regularly incur as I pedal through my town. I now thrilled at every time a motorist backed up to make way for me, whether or not it was necessary, or waved me through a four way stop even though it was their turn; I recognized the profound level of interaction that is direct eye contact, and even more so the the nod, smile, or lifted finger that signified recognition as a fellow tribe member in the vast, distracted clutter of modern humanity.

    In my experience, people are much more inclined to interact with a cyclist than a motorist, from kids playing in the street to adult pedestrians and cyclists and even motorists; when I drive, almost no one acknowledges me the human, they just pay enough attention to know where the car will go. When I bike and people acknowledge me, it's eye to eye, because I am a person on a bike, not a car wrapped around a person. I wave, they wave back. I smile, they smile back. I wave the city bus through a four-way, and driver throws me a shaka, because he's cool like that. I'm happy to say that by now, for every middle finger or hand-to-elbow-with-upraised-fist (the be-mittenned winter cyclist's birdie) I've thrown, I've thrown at least ten times as many peace signs, thumbs up, shakas, and straight up waves. Because for every ******* out there, there are at least ten totally decent fellow humans, needing recognition from and wanting connection to another decent human.

    Be that human, and you will never be in the wrong.

  11. #136
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriddleCakes View Post
    In my experience, people are much more inclined to interact with a cyclist than a motorist, from kids playing in the street to adult pedestrians and cyclists and even motorists; when I drive, almost no one acknowledges me the human, they just pay enough attention to know where the car will go. When I bike and people acknowledge me, it's eye to eye, because I am a person on a bike, not a car wrapped around a person. I wave, they wave back. I smile, they smile back. I wave the city bus through a four-way, and driver throws me a shaka, because he's cool like that. I'm happy to say that by now, for every middle finger or hand-to-elbow-with-upraised-fist (the be-mittenned winter cyclist's birdie) I've thrown, I've thrown at least ten times as many peace signs, thumbs up, shakas, and straight up waves. Because for every ******* out there, there are at least ten totally decent fellow humans, needing recognition from and wanting connection to another decent human.

    Be that human, and you will never be in the wrong.
    154635349876541253253% agree. I think getting my permit then driver license a few years ago, and reading the bicycle section in the driver manual really opened my eyes to not only how others need to drive arond me, but how i need to follow the same rules as every other vehicle operator. It also drove home (no pun intended) the fact that i, as a cyclist, have rights on the road. Before then, I had no idea what the law said, and acted kind of rogue... but since then I've been more likely to involve police, and i try to set an example not just for motorists ("those people"), but other cyclists as well. I think after reading your spiel, i'm not just going to be neutral, but going to "kill them with kindness". Who knows what life has thrown at anyone you see, and who knows what kinda day they are having.... Gotta be the change you want to see happen...

    As for the bus, i always let the bus go, because i know what its like being passenger, and that bus is doing everyone a favor by taking some cars off the road and helping people get around.... Plus, it'd be kind of hypocritical to have my username and NOT let the bus go first haha.

    - Andy
    Last edited by TransitBiker; 04-16-14 at 11:59 PM.
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  12. #137
    Senior Member Pliny the Elder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriddleCakes View Post
    Honesty time? Oh my, here goes...

    I have flipped off and cussed out motorists countless times, as in I never kept track and, looking back, I can only guess; definitely dozens, possibly hundreds. I started bike commuting in my early 20s, in a not very bike friendly city (I love you Anchorage, in part because you've come so far), rode very aggressively, usually with an earbud full of heavy metal music, fully aware of my rights but totally ignorant of my responsibilities as two wheeled road user, and utterly dismissive of the consequences of my actions. If you honked at me, I gave you the bird (I once utterly perplexed a buddy of mine after he gave me a 'Hello!' honk from his car, and I automatically flipped him off). If I slapped your car (a formerly regular occurrence), and you honked at me, I gave you the bird. If we came close to colliding, and it was your fault, I gave you the bird, as soon as my hands were done braking; and even if it was my fault, I probably still gave you the bird, because **** you, you planet killing *******, I'm on a bike.

    At some point, I grew up. I stopped listening to aggressive, angry music, not just on the bike, but everywhere; it just has no place in my life anymore. I began to consider the consequences of my actions, and, more importantly, the emotional response of others to my behavior. As an antisocial, angry introvert, by acting out my emotions onto the traffic flow, I was helping make traffic a more miserable place for everyone, including myself. My negative emotional responses to the stresses of bike commuting were feeding the negative perception I was developing of bike commuting, and I had no one but myself to blame. You'll encounter *******s no matter how you commute, it's how you deal with it that shapes your experience.

    So I began to reflect on what being a urban cyclist meant to me, and just what it was that I wanted out the experience. I thought on what I disliked about biking: the feeling of being ostracized or hated by the vast majority of road users, the negative emotional feedback of resentment to the those feelings, and the insulation caused by wrapping myself in a self-righteous, anti-motorist anger as a defense mechanism from those feelings. I thought about what it was that I loved about biking: the regular exercise, the occasional adrenaline rush, the open air, the increased awareness of the world around me, and the generally positive mental state the these feelings brought me. I decided that if I focused on the positive and did my best to shrug off the negative, I'd become a more mentally healthy person. If someone honked, I'd wave, like I misunderstood that they were just saying 'hi'. I rode more defensively, with less emphasis on "push it" and more on "flow with it". When, later in life, I came across Robert Hurst's "The Art of Cycling", it was a combination of "**** yeah, I figured it out!" and "why didn't I discover this five years ago?".

    Anyway, it totally worked, in every way imaginable. I had way fewer close calls (mostly because I changed my riding style), I shrugged off things that used to make my blood boil (so my blood boiled less), and, an unforeseen benefit, I became more aware of the positive interactions that I regularly incur as I pedal through my town. I now thrilled at every time a motorist backed up to make way for me, whether or not it was necessary, or waved me through a four way stop even though it was their turn; I recognized the profound level of interaction that is direct eye contact, and even more so the the nod, smile, or lifted finger that signified recognition as a fellow tribe member in the vast, distracted clutter of modern humanity.

    In my experience, people are much more inclined to interact with a cyclist than a motorist, from kids playing in the street to adult pedestrians and cyclists and even motorists; when I drive, almost no one acknowledges me the human, they just pay enough attention to know where the car will go. When I bike and people acknowledge me, it's eye to eye, because I am a person on a bike, not a car wrapped around a person. I wave, they wave back. I smile, they smile back. I wave the city bus through a four-way, and driver throws me a shaka, because he's cool like that. I'm happy to say that by now, for every middle finger or hand-to-elbow-with-upraised-fist (the be-mittenned winter cyclist's birdie) I've thrown, I've thrown at least ten times as many peace signs, thumbs up, shakas, and straight up waves. Because for every ******* out there, there are at least ten totally decent fellow humans, needing recognition from and wanting connection to another decent human.

    Be that human, and you will never be in the wrong.
    Great post. I actually just ordered the Art Of Cycling because of this. Looking forward to the read.

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