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-   -   SRAM hydro update (http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/942168-sram-hydro-update.html)

alan s 04-07-14 08:07 PM

SRAM hydro update
 
SRAM Road Hydraulic Brake Recall

For those looking forward to commuting on hydro disc brakes on their road bikes, looks like SRAM is sorting out the problems. I'll definitely not be riding outside the temperature parameters. Got to say they are really making a great effort at communicating.

tjspiel 04-07-14 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan s (Post 16651054)
SRAM Road Hydraulic Brake Recall

For those looking forward to commuting on hydro disc brakes on their road bikes, looks like SRAM is sorting out the problems. I'll definitely not be riding outside the temperature parameters. Got to say they are really making a great effort at communicating.

They are only testing them to -4 F which just isn't cold enough for year round commuting in these parts. Does that mean I'm forever stuck with mechanicals on my winter bike?

The other thing is that video. I'm not sure if I find it refreshing or disturbing that they didn't put out something a little more polished. Maybe that lack of attention to detail is part of the problem?

It's just anecdotal I know but I was riding with a friend who had almost brand new SRAM Red shifters on his bike and one just plain broke when he tried to shift. There was no crash. A piece inside just snapped.

alan s 04-08-14 08:03 AM

Yeah, they would definitely only be for your fair weather bike. In MN, that means above 0F, if I'm not mistaken.

jmilleronaire 04-08-14 08:05 AM

If "above 0F" makes someone a fair-weather commuter, what am I? I've been waiting for 50F!

Do I need to go shopping for skirts?

AlTheKiller 04-08-14 08:09 AM

Lol sram...

IMO just wait for Shimano's to drop, should be any day now.

tjspiel 04-08-14 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan s (Post 16652047)
Yeah, they would definitely only be for your fair weather bike. In MN, that means above 0F, if I'm not mistaken.

There were lots of mornings this winter (like 50 or so) where I would have been thankful for even 1 degree above zero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmilleronaire (Post 16652054)
If "above 0F" makes someone a fair-weather commuter, what am I? I've been waiting for 50F!

Do I need to go shopping for skirts?

I don't think skirts will keep you any warmer. Anyway, you should be golden tomorrow. 73 will feel pretty good, skirt or not. Even safe for SRAM hydros ;)

FWIW, I do appreciate their candor about the problem. Knowing that the seals have issues with cold though is a problem. I imagine when new the improved design be fine even below -4, but once they've aged a bit?

lhbernhardt 04-08-14 11:17 AM

I only use the front disc when I switch forks for the winter commuting season, so I've got all summer for SRAM to get its act together, and for Shimano to start selling its R785 lever/caliper combo separately (and without the shifter part, as it will go on a fixie). Looking forward to seeing how much better hydraulic is over mechanical.

Luis

fietsbob 04-08-14 12:05 PM

Ah, the Challenger space shuttle cold O ring problem rises again..

http://pirate.shu.edu/~mckenndo/pdfs...20Disaster.pdf

dynaryder 04-08-14 05:07 PM

TRP has some dual-action mechs that give you more of the advantages of hydros. I've read some good reviews on them,and would choose them over hydros for a drop bar.

alan s 04-08-14 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhbernhardt (Post 16652818)
I only use the front disc when I switch forks for the winter commuting season, so I've got all summer for SRAM to get its act together, and for Shimano to start selling its R785 lever/caliper combo separately (and without the shifter part, as it will go on a fixie). Looking forward to seeing how much better hydraulic is over mechanical.

Luis

SRAM works with mech shifting, but Shimano is electronic. Can't see ever having electronic shifting on a commuter, but who knows? Like that the rear spacing is 135.

Andy_K 04-08-14 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhbernhardt (Post 16652818)
I only use the front disc when I switch forks for the winter commuting season, so I've got all summer for SRAM to get its act together, and for Shimano to start selling its R785 lever/caliper combo separately (and without the shifter part, as it will go on a fixie). Looking forward to seeing how much better hydraulic is over mechanical.

Retroshift has announced that they'll be shipping 1x9/10 and 2x9/10 hydraulic systems soon. Of course, if you don't have a disc in the rear you might end up with mismatched levers.

Andy_K 04-08-14 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan s (Post 16654057)
SRAM works with mech shifting, but Shimano is electronic. Can't see ever having electronic shifting on a commuter, but who knows? Like that the rear spacing is 135.

Shimano just announced mechanical shifting hydraulic levers.

grolby 04-08-14 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynaryder (Post 16653809)
TRP has some dual-action mechs that give you more of the advantages of hydros. I've read some good reviews on them,and would choose them over hydros for a drop bar.

I wouldn't. Hydraulic discs are much superior to cable discs, SRAM's manufacturing problems with their Hydro R system notwithstanding. The major benefit of the TRP hybrids is that they can be used with any normal drop bar brake lever, while lever options for hydraulics are currently much more limited.

alan s 04-09-14 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_K (Post 16654165)
Shimano just announced mechanical shifting hydraulic levers.

That's great news. Did they also announce when they'll become affordable?

dynaryder 04-09-14 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grolby (Post 16654331)
The major benefit of the TRP hybrids is that they can be used with any normal drop bar brake lever, while lever options for hydraulics are currently much more limited.

And that's why I said what I did. When they get things figured out,I'd totally rock hydros on a drop bar bike. But right now,I'll take the mechs.

pdthiem 04-09-14 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynaryder (Post 16657065)
And that's why I said what I did. When they get things figured out,I'd totally rock hydros on a drop bar bike. But right now,I'll take the mechs.

The BB7s's on my Fuji Sportif 1.1 with Jagwire Ripcord compressionless housings don't feel any different to me than hydraulics, and I prefer the ease of maintenance I get with mechanicals.

Eventually I'll upgrade the calipers on my Soma Double Cross Disc to the TRP mechanicals (if I win the lottery).

fietsbob 04-10-14 09:51 AM

the TRP Hydro with the master cylinder in the body of the lever seems to have been working , read of no recalls .

the shifter mech is displaced by the hydraulic mech. so shifting is done elsewhere.

retroshift 04-14-14 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 16658788)
the TRP Hydro with the master cylinder in the body of the lever seems to have been working , read of no recalls .

the shifter mech is displaced by the hydraulic mech. so shifting is done elsewhere.

TRP system is SUPER clever. They have a patent pending for the implementation of a stand alone master cylinder inside the brake lever body. What this does is allow you an easy and inexpensive replacement of the brake lever and or body if you should crash one. You simply pull master cylinder out of broken parts (its inside so well protected) and then replace broken parts.

Due to this we will be offering our crash replacement service on this new hydraulic shifting system. Not sure on pricing yet but might be as little as $50-$75 to get a complete rebuild for a front or rear units should it get run over by a herd of elephants.

Goats

fietsbob 04-14-14 09:26 AM

Quote:

They have a patent pending for the implementation of a stand alone master cylinder inside the brake lever body.
Guess Magura's patent lapsed .. Or the TRP has the, disc common, fluid expansion chamber made small enough.. to fit.

The M previous design was a closed system

the massively popular HS33, is Still in production.. I think the HS77 was a road hydraulic rim brake

just now, their reintroduced set , goes pure aero bar . for the TRI bike market I suppose ..

spare_wheel 04-14-14 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlTheKiller (Post 16652071)
Lol sram...

IMO just wait for Shimano's to drop, should be any day now.

Shimano's road hydros dropped last year. They are the best road hydraulics available but they still suck.

spare_wheel 04-14-14 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdthiem (Post 16657533)
The BB7s's on my Fuji Sportif 1.1 with Jagwire Ripcord compressionless housings don't feel any different to me than hydraulics, and I prefer the ease of maintenance I get with mechanicals.

Errrrrm...how much experience do have with maintenance of decent hydros? I switched to hydraulics, in part, because mechanicals are so fussy and expensive to maintain.

Andy_K 04-14-14 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spare_wheel (Post 16669593)
Shimano's road hydros dropped last year. They are the best road hydraulics available but they still suck.

In what way?

fotooutdoors 04-14-14 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spare_wheel (Post 16669615)
Errrrrm...how much experience do have with maintenance of decent hydros? I switched to hydraulics, in part, because mechanicals are so fussy and expensive to maintain.

Curious about this statement. I have 0 experience with hydros, so am pretty clueless, but I thought it was a pain in the butt if/when you overhauled them, especially when it comes to bleeding them. Perhaps this depends on the design/maker? BB7's do take a bit of care to keep adjusted in abrasive conditions, but I would not describe them as fussy or expensive; I replace the pads when they wear low ($15/set, roughly yearly), and occasionally adjust the pads so that they are close to the rotor. I spend perhaps 5 minutes per month on my daily commuter's brakes, and I ride year-round.

spare_wheel 04-14-14 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_K (Post 16670071)
In what way?

The pistons are probably not the issue since they are basically re-badged xt 785s but the lever action is far too all or nothing. I got very little engagement until I really pressed down on the levers. Moreover, for me the ergonomics of the r785s were terrible (especially from the hoods). Given that I have 6700 ultegra levers on my road bike and love the ergonomics this was particularly disappointing.

spare_wheel 04-14-14 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotooutdoors (Post 16670078)
Curious about this statement. I have 0 experience with hydros, so am pretty clueless, but I thought it was a pain in the butt if/when you overhauled them, especially when it comes to bleeding them. Perhaps this depends on the design/maker? BB7's do take a bit of care to keep adjusted in abrasive conditions, but I would not describe them as fussy or expensive; I replace the pads when they wear low ($15/set, roughly yearly), and occasionally adjust the pads so that they are close to the rotor. I spend perhaps 5 minutes per month on my daily commuter's brakes, and I ride year-round.

I ride significant elevation gain in terrible gritty wet conditions and had to fuss with my bb7s at least once a week -- sometime more often. Moreover, pad changes are, IME, more time consuming and annoying (alignment issues) with mechanicals than a decent hydraulic. Mechanicals also require more re-adjustment when you swap wheels (see my handle). I now run XT hydraulics and have 5 wheelsets that I can swap onto my two commuters with no more than a couple lever squeezes worth of adjustment.

Mid-level or better Shimano are set up and forget for 5-10 years (depending on your paranoia about mineral oil stability). Moreover, since both pistons auto adjust there is, IME, very little problem with scraping/noise. My brakes basically never need adjustment and only rub/squeal when the pads are extremely low. I tend to agree that low end shimano hydraulics are not much better than mechanicals but once you get to SLX ($70-$80 online) or better there really is no comparison, IMO.

And anther thing: shimano/magura mineral oil is dirt cheap -- compressionless brake cables not so much.


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