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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Thanks for the mention - I actually ordered it and have it, just didn't get around to putting it on yet. :-)

    P.S. They also make a mount to mount the light using the front brake bolt - going to try that out to, hopefully avoid the light annoyingly hitting the cables on the handlebars.
    where did you order one?

    I'm thinking in order one IQ from rosebikes.fr (have a friend there now), but I have no idea if that comes with the light.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by yankhor View Post
    where did you order one?

    I'm thinking in order one IQ from rosebikes.fr (have a friend there now), but I have no idea if that comes with the light.
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    How I ordered mine was I called Harris Cyclery, then they told me to submit my request using this form -
    https://securecart.net/page.cfm?doma...AEBCF21821B4AF

    Keep in mind if you're thinking about ordering one that:

    1. You should probably order the "oversized" mount along with it -
    Busch & Müller IXON Handlebar Mount for Oversized (31.8 mm) Handlebars - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts

    Because the "regular" sized mount the light comes with doesn't fit on any of my 4 bikes.

    2. You only get the plug-into-the-light charger if you either order it separately or order the light+batteries+charger.

    3. Apparently if you do order the charger, you'll also need the adapter for US wall sockets -
    Busch & Müller Plug Adaptor for IXON Charger - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts

    4. They don't seem to list it on their website, but they sent me the glare shield with my order, and I think it's worth it as well.

    5. You might consider the fork crown mount, though it's not necessary -
    Busch & Müller IXON Fork Crown Mount - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts
    http://harriscyclery.net/

    It's in the US, though. I've gotten the impression it should be a lot easier to find in Europe actually.
    Last edited by PaulRivers; 04-09-14 at 04:15 PM.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    That looks awesome. Pity it's still using AA cells or I'd order one right this second.

    I'm thinking I'm going to have to order a dyno version and wire it up to LiIon cells myself.
    P.S. I noticed on the Amazon page for Eneloop cells -
    Amazon.com: eneloop AA 1800 cycle, Ni-MH Pre-Charged Rechargeable Batteries, 8 Pack: Electronics

    That they have a chart that shows this:
    - Eneloop "1000 Cycle" batteries - Low Temperature Capacity - +14 degrees fahrenheit
    - Eneloop "1500 Cycle" batteries - Low Temperature Capacity - -4 degrees fahrenheit
    - Eneloop "XX" batteries - Low Temperature Capacity - -4 degrees fahrenheit

    So someone making Nimh AA batteries is somewhere at least paying attention to keeping them working in cold weather, and the newer ones might be better in cold weather than the older ones (it is of course marketing material, so one has to take it with a grain of salt). Fyi.

  4. #29
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    @PaulRivers, thanks for re-answering that. I was on the job and didn't read all the thread. Sorry for that.

    I'm gonna check the french stores for those accessories, but it's good to know I can find it on Harris.

  5. #30
    Señior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    LiIon packs cost $0 - I already have several, with chargers. Worst case, pay $20 for a cheap assed light with a LiIon pack and charger, throw away light head.

    I absolutely, positively, without any question or doubt whatsoever, have no interest in any way of putting a dyno on my bike. I hope that's clear enough. God, my winter bike (the one that would have the dyno wheel) already feels like pedalling a lead brick through molasses in January. I'm not adding even more drag. I don't need someone to explain to me how "it's not that bad". My bike is ALREADY far worse than "that bad" with studded low pressure tires, 40+ pounds of weight, internal geared hub, etc.

    If dynos put out AC, then why do the lights say to be sure to hook the polarity up right? If they were AC then it wouldn't matter. Besides, even if they did put out AC, the very first thing they'd do would be to run it through a rectifier and capacitor to turn it right back to DC, and it wouldn't matter if you fed it DC. Old filament bulbs might run off AC, but LEDs need DC. If you feed them AC, they turn it immediately into DC.
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  6. #31
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    Dynamo zealots, you like your dynamo lights. Great. For folks like ItsJustMe, battery lights work fine. Battery lights are also 1/10th of the cost of dynamo setup and brighter (comparing $20-30 magicshine clone with $200 dynamo setups).

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    I'm not adding even more drag.
    The drag on my sp dynamo is not noticeable at all, but then again, it's $130, I could by 3 sets of dual xml2 lights for over 3000 lumens of light.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbubbles View Post
    Dynamo zealots, you like your dynamo lights. Great. For folks like ItsJustMe, battery lights work fine. Battery lights are also 1/10th of the cost of dynamo setup and brighter (comparing $20-30 magicshine clone with $200 dynamo setups).

    The drag on my sp dynamo is not noticeable at all, but then again, it's $130, I could by 3 sets of dual xml2 lights for over 3000 lumens of light.
    Do you have anything meaningful to add to this thread, or did you just want to talk about your battery zealotry/fanboyism? This thread is actually about a battery light.

  8. #33
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Looking at your top picture ... Did you know? B&M makes a rubber stick on glare shield

    for the top of their lights so it doesnt shine up at your eyes like that?
    I was thinking actually about seeing if I could make a reasonable one myself with alu foil and a rubber band.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    I was thinking actually about seeing if I could make a reasonable one myself with alu foil and a rubber band.
    Fyi, Peter White does sell the Busch and Mueller glare shield that specifically fits the light for $6.92. There's no doubt one could make one themselves...if the shipping was standard postal (like $0.50 or something) it looks nice on the light and is more likely to stay attached.

  10. #35
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I recently ordered the new Ixon IQ Premium bike light....
    What hub are you using?
    IGH's, Dyno Hubs, LED lights and old frames

  11. #36
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Fyi, Peter White does sell the Busch and Mueller glare shield that specifically fits the light for $6.92. There's no doubt one could make one themselves...if the shipping was standard postal (like $0.50 or something) it looks nice on the light and is more likely to stay attached.
    That's a good value for a bike-specific product; if I had that light I would get it. But I'm working with a regular CREE XML T6 double-18650 flashlight, firmly secured to my handlebar with two interlocked hose clamps. I find I can get really a pretty good beam pattern by playing around with the mount angle and the flashlight's 'zoom', but my options would increase with a glare shield on the top.

  12. #37
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    ...If dynos put out AC, then why do the lights say to be sure to hook the polarity up right? If they were AC then it wouldn't matter. Besides, even if they did put out AC, the very first thing they'd do would be to run it through a rectifier and capacitor to turn it right back to DC, and it wouldn't matter if you fed it DC. Old filament bulbs might run off AC, but LEDs need DC. If you feed them AC, they turn it immediately into DC.
    Dynos are AC, every dyno (sidewheel, BB and HUB) puts out unrectified AC. I've measured it with oscilloscopes on every type of dyno and almost every brand.

    The issue about polarity is about shorting DC ground to one side of the dyno's output. Back-in-the-day, when dynos drove light bulbs, one side of the generator was shorted to the frame and one side of the light bulb was shorted to the frame. Everything was good and only one wire was needed.

    Then LED lights came out and things got complicated. If you short one side of the generator to the frame, then rectify it to make DC, it's important not to short DC ground to the frame. My older Shimano hub has one side of the dyno shorted to the axle, my newer Alfine is floating.

    Another complication factor is that some tail lights have an internal rectifier and others don't.

    edit: Sunup add-on hub dyno is DC output.
    http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tes.../index_en.html
    Last edited by Mr IGH; 04-11-14 at 08:21 AM.
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  13. #38
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I recently ordered the new Ixon IQ Premium bike light. If you're familiar with dynamo lights, Busch and Mueller came out with a new Lumotec Premium dynamo light this year, the Ixon IQ Premium is it's battery equivalent....
    This guy reviews the Ixon and finds the beam pattern lacking:
    from: Bicycle lighting, mostly powered via dynamo, and USB power from dynamo
    Bad point is the strong hotspot and those daytime lights are not what I would want to see (see my suggestions elsewhere for what the optimal daytime light should look like, namely more like a good taillamp), but at least those daytime LEDs give white light and not blue/purple as with the awful Cyo RT that I tested and you don't get the direct light from the LEDs, which gives the problem of far too high luminance. But they are still of variety 'visibility by being annoying' which I don't like. Especially at night these are very annoying (and yes, they light at night because they don't just serve as daytime lights). The beamshape is very wide. In the rain the near field's exposure gives a big problem as it is far too bright in that case due to the rest of the beam not showing much from the road due to wetness and the light colour (see also the review of the H-one S). The artefacts near the bike also become very distracting in that case.
    Additions: 1. My Luxos U died end of October... 2. I forgot to add from a test long ago: The glare from the Luxos seemed OK only when just the main LED was lit. It was really bad with the DRL lamps lit, which do light up at night ('panorama' light)...
    This was why I went with the Phillips SafeRide60.
    from:Bicycle lighting, mostly powered via dynamo, and USB power from dynamo
    This headlamp is one of the best currently available dynamo lamps with cutoff. Strong light beam up to ca. 45m, so it has a throw similar to the Edelux, too much light near the front wheel (but you only really notice this when switching to another headlamp while riding), no automatic on/off, the original mounting bracket is not stiff enough, the later one is much better, the lamp lets light go upward to your eyes (can be fixed with some black tape or paint). Conclusion at the end of 2010: Due to the low price compared to the 2 main competitors (Edelux and E3-pro-StVZO) and as it's about as good as those 2, this lamp for me is the best value for money. End of 2012 this conclusion was still true after testing the Luxos B.
    IGH's, Dyno Hubs, LED lights and old frames

  14. #39
    Señior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    Dynos are AC, every dyno (sidewheel, BB and HUB) puts out unrectified AC. I've measured it with oscilloscopes on every type of dyno and almost every brand.
    OK, then, the lights should take DC just fine. The DC will just pass through one leg of the bridge rectifier.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  15. #40
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    OK, then, the lights should take DC just fine. The DC will just pass through one leg of the bridge rectifier.
    When you short one of the generator outputs to the DC gnd, half the bridge is gone. That's called a half wave rectifier, you'll get half the power. Add in an internal rectifier on the tail light and it's another diode drop....
    IGH's, Dyno Hubs, LED lights and old frames

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    P.S. I noticed on the Amazon page for Eneloop cells -
    Amazon.com: eneloop AA 1800 cycle, Ni-MH Pre-Charged Rechargeable Batteries, 8 Pack: Electronics

    That they have a chart that shows this:
    - Eneloop "1000 Cycle" batteries - Low Temperature Capacity - +14 degrees fahrenheit
    - Eneloop "1500 Cycle" batteries - Low Temperature Capacity - -4 degrees fahrenheit
    - Eneloop "XX" batteries - Low Temperature Capacity - -4 degrees fahrenheit
    I have a bad habit of doing product research AFTER I submit an order (post decision justification). There are several generations of eneloop batteries. The 3rd / 4th generation perform similarly with the 4th being branded Panasonic instead of Sanyo and having 2100 cycles. I got the 2000mAh 3rd generation version which have 1800 cycle (even though the website and product image showed the 2nd generation 1500 cycle package). The 3rd generation has been out since 2011, so the product description on websites might just be out of date unless they love sitting on old inventory. They also come in 1500mAh, so its good to pay attention to what version is being sold.

    The XX version have a higher capacity but only 500 charge cycles.

    An interesting thing I came across is that a non low self discharge nimh battery can lose up to 4% capacity a day and up to 20% in the first day after charging. Which would explain why the backup set of batteries for my digital camera always seemed to drain fast despite rarely being used.
    Last edited by gecho; 04-11-14 at 10:11 AM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    That's a good value for a bike-specific product; if I had that light I would get it. But I'm working with a regular CREE XML T6 double-18650 flashlight, firmly secured to my handlebar with two interlocked hose clamps. I find I can get really a pretty good beam pattern by playing around with the mount angle and the flashlight's 'zoom', but my options would increase with a glare shield on the top.
    Aaaaah, gotcha...good luck then. :-)

  18. #43
    Senior Member tarwheel's Avatar
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    Looks like a nice light. How does the rated power (50 lux) compare to other LED lights that are rated in lumens? I don't know why B&M doesn't just rate their lights in lumens like most light manufacturers.

    I am intrigued by the shaped beam after being disappointed by my latest LED light purchase. My Light & Motion TAZ 1000 is rated at 1000 lumens, which I don't doubt, but much of the available light is wasted due to its overly broad, "floody" beam. My L&M Urban 500 has half the lumens but appears just as bright because it has a more focused beam.

    For those who don't like AA batteries, Peter White sells an Ixon Core model with a rechargeable Li battery that can be charged with a standard USB cable.

    I won't get into the battery vs dynamo debate, but let's just say that their are pros and cons to either method and individual needs will determine which system i s better for you.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    This guy reviews the Ixon and finds the beam pattern lacking:
    from: Bicycle lighting, mostly powered via dynamo, and USB power from dynamo

    This was why I went with the Phillips SafeRide60.
    from:Bicycle lighting, mostly powered via dynamo, and USB power from dynamo
    ....so...I don't understand, why is that relevant? You quoted my review of the Ixon IQ Premium, to post a review from Dec 2012 of the Ixon IQ (non-premium, as the premium did not even exist then). The Premium version has a redesigned beam pattern. (I said earlier in this thread myself that I owned the Ixon IQ non-premium and thought so little of it I resold it after using it a few times)

    The Phillips Saferide was a terrible light for exactly 1 reason - it's awful battery life. With stock batteries it got < 1 hour, with the best batteries it got 1-2 hours (but not 2 or more). You also couldn't even plug in an external power source, because the light would turn itself off (built in timer) after a fixed period of time, despite having the ability to charge and run with usb power connected.

    Since the Ixon IQ Premium has a fantastic beam pattern, and it's batteries lasts 4-5 hours, I think it's just plain a superior light. :-)

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    OK, then, the lights should take DC just fine. The DC will just pass through one leg of the bridge rectifier.
    I'd say it will take DC from a battery just fine because a previous poster posted a response pointing to the manual which says that it's fine to hook up a battery to the Cyo (as long as it's the right voltage of course).

    It's from the Cyo manual, not the Cyo premium manual, once might want to hunt down the Cyo Premium manual to verify, but it seems very unlikely that would have changed.

  21. #46
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    ...The Phillips Saferide was a terrible light for exactly 1 reason - it's awful battery life....
    Aren't you running a dyno? Who uses batteries these days?
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by gecho View Post
    I have a bad habit of doing product research AFTER I submit an order (post decision justification). There are several generations of eneloop batteries. The 3rd / 4th generation perform similarly with the 4th being branded Panasonic instead of Sanyo and having 2100 cycles. I got the 2000mAh 3rd generation version which have 1800 cycle (even though the website and product image showed the 2nd generation 1500 cycle package). The 3rd generation has been out since 2011, so the product description on websites might just be out of date unless they love sitting on old inventory. They also come in 1500mAh, so its good to pay attention to what version is being sold.

    The XX version have a higher capacity but only 500 charge cycles.

    An interesting thing I came across is that a non low self discharge nimh battery can lose up to 4% capacity a day and up to 20% in the first day after charging. Which would explain why the backup set of batteries for my digital camera always seemed to drain fast despite rarely being used.
    Right, though keep in mind that that should be 500 full recharge/discharge. With 365 days in a year, you'd have to ride and fully drain the battery every day - and you'd still get almost 1.5 years of life out of the battery before buying another $15 set of batteries.

    Of course since you get 1/3rd the battery lifetime with XX's, you could also just get the regular eneloop's - you "only" get 2000mah's rather than 2500mah's, but you'd get 3 times the battery lifespan. Just depends if you need the light to last 4 hours or 5 hours at a time I would guess...

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarwheel View Post
    Looks like a nice light. How does the rated power (50 lux) compare to other LED lights that are rated in lumens? I don't know why B&M doesn't just rate their lights in lumens like most light manufacturers.

    I am intrigued by the shaped beam after being disappointed by my latest LED light purchase. My Light & Motion TAZ 1000 is rated at 1000 lumens, which I don't doubt, but much of the available light is wasted due to its overly broad, "floody" beam. My L&M Urban 500 has half the lumens but appears just as bright because it has a more focused beam.

    For those who don't like AA batteries, Peter White sells an Ixon Core model with a rechargeable Li battery that can be charged with a standard USB cable.

    I won't get into the battery vs dynamo debate, but let's just say that their are pros and cons to either method and individual needs will determine which system i s better for you.
    The IQ Premium is 80 lux, not 50 lux.

    I personally own a multitude of other battery powered lights - Dinotte 200l, 2 Dinotte 400l's (with lens kit), Dinotte 600l, Light and Motion Seca 900, Light and Motion Sec 1400, and a dynamo powered Lumtoc Cyo.

    I can tell you from experience that you cannot meaningfully compare a good shaped beam light to a non-shaped beam light (including the semi-shaped beams of the Light and Motion lights). Even within non-shaped beam lights, the beam pattern is extremely important. The Dinotte 600l was crap. Just absolutely terrible for road riding. I could have lived with it if it was free, but frankly, my much cheaper 200l was a better light on the road. The 600l would throw out a bunch of light and brightly light up right in front of the bike - but that would leave you not being able to see well outside of where it lit up. And it's throw in what it lit up was terrible. The Light and Motion 900 had much much better throw, but wasn't wide enough. My Light and Motion 1400 was actually to wide - it was ok, but could have used more throw down the middle. My 2 Dinotte 400l's were what I actually used on my road bike because they got the closest to being decent.

    I used to say - and this is still true - that my 2nd best light for commuting was my Lumotec Cyo. Despite it's much lower total light output, it's lack of a hotspot and it's even shaped beam, in real world effect, let me see better down the road than any of my other lighting systems. Less light - but with no hotspot and an even beam - was definitely better than much brighter lights that didn't have as good of a beam pattern. It's main drawback was that it was a dynamo light (so needed a dynamo front wheel, something I had no problem putting on my computer but was hesitant to put on my fast-handling road bike), and that it didn't light up the side very well.

    My first best combination was the only one that beat the Cyo, and that was using both my Light and Motion 900 (on high) and my Light and Motion 1400 (on medium) at the same time. 1,650 lumens - in the specific beam pattern those lights made - was the only thing that provided better light. It just finally put out enough light to straight up light everything up. But it had it's own drawbacks - using 2 lights, it's prohibitive cost, carrying 2 batteries, and most importantly - it was absolutely blinding to anyone coming towards me. Pedestrians and other bikes it was awful for (and I ride on a MUP a lot), even cars seemed to have a problem (whereas usually it's not an issue as cars are on the other side of the street).

    I could go on and on, but you'd have to try it out yourself to really understand - a lights beam pattern has a much larger effect on your ability to see than the lumen output does once you get to a respectable # of lumens (like...200 lumens or something).

    The Ixon IQ even solves the Cyo's main drawback (lack of light to the sides for turning, stuff off to the side of the trail, etc).

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx

    Thanks for posting about the Taz - that's dissapointing (but not unexpected, marketing departments tend to lie unfortunately) as this is what Light and Motion claimed about the Taz -
    The Taz features high-output amber side-lights and a powerful beam pattern comparable to the required specs of motorized vehicles.

    I was dubious, and it sounds like they (Light and Motion) are full of it. I could post a pic of the Ixon IQ beam pattern - it has an actual cutoff, that's actually just like a modern car headlight. It's a fully and totally shaped beam, unlike how the Taz sounds (and looked like in beam shots) with a kinda-shaped beam. The Ixon IQ only puts out tiny amount of light above the horizon, enough to light up reflective road signs. I'll try to remember to take a beam shot pattern against my wall tonight.

    I personally wouldn't recommend the Ixon Core models when the Ixon IQ is available - Peter White's beam shots show a narrower beam, and as I said in another post I personally found that 50 lux wasn't enough light for this kind of beam pattern. It's to bad they don't have usb charging and a lith-ion battery option for this model (though I would also hate to see the AA option go away). Since they do offer another model (30 lux, so really not enough light imo) that uses AA's and has usb charging, I wonder if we'll see a usb charging option in some future model.

    Thank you for not getting into a dynamo vs battery light debate in this thread - the Ixon IQ is a battery light, the dynamo version is the Cyo Premium with the same bulb and reflector pattern, but dynamo powered instead.

    There are pluses and minuses to battery vs dynamo - I personally don't think there's a "winner" any more than there's a "winner" between road vs mountain bike. It just depends on your setup and uses. I find the convenience of not having battery stuff to spend time on or have fail on my commuter bike very very useful. But there are arguments for battery lights to - cheaper upfront cost, cheaper if you're switching the light between different bikes, etc etc.

    I mean if someone wants to create another different thread listing out practical advantages of dynamo vs battery lights (that lists the practical differences, not just one-sided hyperbole from one side or the other), and link to it here that's cool. But as I said - this thread is actually about a battery light (that also happens to have a dynamo equivalent), so the debate is just not really relevant here. :-)

    P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    Aren't you running a dyno? Who uses batteries these days?
    I own 4 bikes - my summer commuter and winter bike both have dynamos, my mountain bike does not (though mountain biking is one place where a shaped beam would not work), and my high end road bike does not as well.

    There are advantages and disadvantages to battery vs dynamo, but as I said - since this thread is actually about a battery light, perhaps we can not do that debate here. Feel free to create another thread on the topic if you want, though as I said elsewhere I think right now it's like arguing road bike vs mountain bike - there's no "winner", it depends on your situation which one is better.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    What hub are you using?
    Sorry, I missed seeing your post before.

    The Ixon IQ is a battery light, not a dynamo light, here's a pic -

    IxonIQ-Batteries.jpg

    The Lumotec Cyo Premium is the dyamo version of what is apparently otherwise the exact same light - same reflector (so exact same beam pattern), same led, just powered by a dynamo instead of batteries -
    DSCF0897-v2.jpg

    (here's the link to the blog post that lists that second image if anyone is curious - http://thelonewheeler.blogspot.com/2014/03/ive-seen-light.html )
    Last edited by PaulRivers; 04-11-14 at 11:40 AM.

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