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  1. #51
    Senior Member tarwheel's Avatar
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    Trust me, we have had plenty of debates over dynamos vs batteries on this forum. Just do a search if you are interested.

    Regarding AA batteries, I can testify that Eneloops are incredible. My Dinotte 140 taillight uses AA batteries, and I have tried various brands over the years. Eneloops are my favorites by far. Altho not rated as high in raw power as some AAs, they hold a charge better than any other AAs that I've used. Plus, they hold their charge while stored.

    There are advantages for headlights using AA batteries. In addition to their low cost vs lithiums, you can easily carry extra batteries to extend run time or for emergency backups. Almost anyone who uses lights regularly for commuting will eventually forget to charge their batteries and run low. With AA batteries, particularly Eneloops with their long storage time, you can easily carry a set of spares in your seatbag.

    Lithium batteries also can catch fire or explode in rare circumstances.

  2. #52
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    The Ixon IQ is a battery light, not a dynamo light
    Who cares about a shaped beam when you're running batteries? What's the point? I like the shaped beamed LED headlamps for their efficiency when powered from a dyno. If I was running a battery, I'd buy a magicshine 1400 and light up the ride. If you read the German headlight reviews, the German standards are left over from Nazi Germeny (~1930) and haven't been updated since. They're not happy they can't run a nice bright light like the Dutch are allowed.
    IGH's, Dyno Hubs, LED lights and old frames

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    Who cares about a shaped beam when you're running batteries? What's the point? I like the shaped beamed LED headlamps for their efficiency when powered from a dyno. If I was running a battery, I'd buy a magicshine 1400 and light up the ride. If you read the German headlight reviews, the German standards are left over from Nazi Germeny (~1930) and haven't been updated since. They're not happy they can't run a nice bright light like the Dutch are allowed.
    Like I said, I'm not getting into a debate over that on this thread. See my multiple other responses in this thread for my opinions on that.

  4. #54
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Like I said, I'm not getting into a debate over that on this thread. See my multiple other responses in this thread for my opinions on that.
    Why would you bother with a shaped beam if you're running from batteries? How does it make good sense to spend a bunch of $$ on a low performing light that is limited due to antiquated German bike laws left over from 1930? Even cars have high beams now...Nobody uses these lights outside of Germany, unless they're using a dyno....
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  5. #55
    Gammal cyklist Reynolds's Avatar
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    I didn't expect Godwin to appear here!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
    I didn't expect Godwin to appear here!
    Lol.

    There needs to be an equivalent theme about people trying to ramble on about that's also unrelated to the thread as well...I swear, a thread on mountain bike tires will devolve into a debate about carbon fiber frames, a thread on carbon fiber frames will eventually devolve into a debate on pedal choices, and a thread on pedal choices will event eventually somehow devolve into a debate on mountain bike tires...

  7. #57
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, you have several threads going, one of them is for this light in dyno version. I incorrectly assume you were running a dyno for reasons stated. IMO, this light isn't very good compared to other, lower cost battery powered lights.
    IGH's, Dyno Hubs, LED lights and old frames

  8. #58
    Señior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    When you short one of the generator outputs to the DC gnd, half the bridge is gone. That's called a half wave rectifier, you'll get half the power. Add in an internal rectifier on the tail light and it's another diode drop....
    I would HOPE that in a situation that is as tight on power as this is, that they're using Schottky diodes. It would be inexcusably cheap to use a regular diode and throw away 0.6 volts.

    Unless I'm reading it wrong, I think your understanding of a bridge rectifier is incorrect. It doesn't cut the power in half when you feed it DC, all of the voltage still goes through minus the diode drop.. You ARE getting the power through two diodes, that's not ideal but if they're using schottkys it's only a 0.2v drop total. The bridge rectifier in this situation acts exactly as if there were just two diodes in the circuit, one on the positive side facing one way and one on the negative side facing the other. It's not a voltage divider.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    I'm sorry, you have several threads going, one of them is for this light in dyno version. I incorrectly assume you were running a dyno for reasons stated. IMO, this light isn't very good compared to other, lower cost battery powered lights.
    Ok.

    If you want to about just battery lights and beam pattern between them, in my opinion I do not agree. I wrote a long earlier response here -
    Ixon IQ Premium Bike Light may be the best Bike Light I've ever seen (Lumotec Cyo Pr)

    There's an argument that I would not disagree with that if money and getting something that "does the job" is your top priority, then a $16 light off of amazon might be better (or their might be stuff that's slightly more expensive but more waterproof, durable etc). If I was on my broke college student budget, would be hard to disagree with that.

    I think - from experience - that a good shaped-beam bike like is flat out superior to any of the round beam or kind-shaped beam lights (like from Light and Motion) that I've tried. As I wrote in my other thread, I own numerous other lights that range from the cheap to the most expensive in my search for a bike light.

    If you want the hyperbole you were getting into, why are car headlights shaped then since they aren't restricted by power requirements? Avoiding blinding oncoming traffic is only one of a multitude of reasons (and on my bike, not even in the top reasons) I've found a genuinely-shaped-beam light to be better.

    These are the bike-specific reasons:

    1. Night vision - Shaped beam lights have been the only lights that do not kill my night vision. Have you ever ridden your bike at night in the city without a light, and thought "you know, I almost don't even need a light - almost". With my round-beam lights, the moment I moment I turn on my light I get tunnel vision - my ability to make out the landscape around me (if it's not directly lit up by streetlights and such) disappears. This doesn't happen with my shaped beam light.

    It's just really fantastic. A genuinely shaped beam light is the only kind of light I've found that puts out enough light on the road to be useful, but also does this.

    2. Hotspots - I've found eyeballs adjust to whatever the brightest light source in your field of vision is. Every round-beam light I've owned (even a light and motion Seca 1400) has a hotspot, and that hotspot means my eyes adjust and I'm throwing away light the light is putting out because my eyes have adjusted to seeing something brighter. The difference between what my eyes think they see with my round-beam lights at 200, 400, and 800 lumens is only about 10% different between each step. I would run 2 Dinotte 400l's on medium because switching to high only made a tiny perceived difference in ability to actually see more.

    This hasn't been the case with the genuinely shaped-beam lights I've used. There's no hotspot, my eyes don't adjust, it just lights things up the road like it's supposed to.

    3. Even Beam Pattern - related to hotspots, some round beam lights like to put a hotspot right in front of the bike making things even worse. Some - like my 400l's or 200's - just need to be aimed better. But others - like my 600l - just suck, lol. Even for those that can be adjusted, they're better, but it's still a problem - the further away from the bike you get, the less the road is lit up.

    A shaped beam is specifically engineered so that your eye gets the same amount of light from the road far away from you that it gets from the road close to you. They do this by being brighter at the top, which results in an even distribution of light on the actual road itself. Again, I could not find a round-beam light that did this, some were much better than others, but a genuinely shaped beam light has consistently been the best.

    4. Finally, I do ride a lot on MUPs, and on local trails around lakes, where there are oncoming pedestrians and bikers that I would prefer not to blind with my light. A shaped beam with a cutoff does this, none of my round beam lights ever did, even my relatively low powered 200L. You'll notice that this is #4 though, it's not as important to me as the first 3.

    What battery lights do you think are better? I personally think this is the best battery light I've ever owned for road biking (mountain bike lights have different requirements).

  10. #60
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    Why would you bother with a shaped beam if you're running from batteries? How does it make good sense to spend a bunch of $$ on a low performing light that is limited due to antiquated German bike laws left over from 1930? Even cars have high beams now...Nobody uses these lights outside of Germany, unless they're using a dyno....
    Shaped beams on battery lights are a good idea when riding on MUPS or in cities, because blinding people with a retina searing Magicshine light is considered rude many places. Shaped beams also make sense in that they light up the road where needed instead of wasting photons trying to light up the sky above.

    Suggesting that the German bike lights laws are antiquated 1930 leftovers is simply wrong. The German StZVO laws regarding bicycle lights have been changed again quite recently, allowing for eg. 1.5W generator hubs (see Shimano's new 2014 collection). They have been changed many times over the years to reflect changes in technology.

    B&M battery lights with shaped beams are actually quite popular outside Germany, especially in Northern Europe where the winter season means that most bicycle commuters will have to use lights. B&M simply have the best and most advanced bicycle light optics in the world now. Only the light giant Philips could compete on optics, but they have just announced they are pulling out of the bicycle light business.

  11. #61
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    The Plankton has spoken.. out of what ever orifice it has ..

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by interested View Post
    Shaped beams on battery lights are a good idea when riding on MUPS or in cities, because blinding people with a retina searing Magicshine light is considered rude many places. Shaped beams also make sense in that they light up the road where needed instead of wasting photons trying to light up the sky above.

    Suggesting that the German bike lights laws are antiquated 1930 leftovers is simply wrong. The German StZVO laws regarding bicycle lights have been changed again quite recently, allowing for eg. 1.5W generator hubs (see Shimano's new 2014 collection). They have been changed many times over the years to reflect changes in technology.

    B&M battery lights with shaped beams are actually quite popular outside Germany, especially in Northern Europe where the winter season means that most bicycle commuters will have to use lights. B&M simply have the best and most advanced bicycle light optics in the world now. Only the light giant Philips could compete on optics, but they have just announced they are pulling out of the bicycle light business.
    Yeah, though as I wrote on about above - in my experience, not being rude to oncoming traffic isn't the top reasons to get a good shaped beam. Not wasting energy is even lower on the list, though a nice benefit. There are several purely self-centered reasons that come before that. :-)

    Fyi, see this thread on dynamo's (though again, please don't get into a debate about dynamo's on this thread that's about a battery light), it looks like there might be a company called AXA-Stenman that's started competing with B&M -
    Saw Luxx70 dynamo light + usb charging available on Amazon US (Luxos U alternative)

  13. #63
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    What is "good" for a battery light is very subjective - max brightness, consistent, optics, beam pattern, battery life, modes, features, recharging options, etc.

    Now owning, and having tried, a number of battery powered bike lights I am realizing that optics is a very important feature. Throwing less light but exactly where its needed will be more efficient then a light that throws more light but "wastes" it in one spot or in places its not needed, like up high (for road riding at least).

    But optics isn't just about a beam shape with a good cutoff. It is width of beam, even spread of light without hot spots, etc. I have seen lights with good optics but lower lumens more effective then lights with higher lumens but poor optics.

    I haven't used a B&M light personally, but would like to move to one (or something with similar optical quality) in the future from the research I have done (likely with a dynamo setup but not because I am anti-battery lights, as to date I only have battery lights).

  14. #64
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    ...Unless I'm reading it wrong, I think your understanding of a bridge rectifier is incorrect....
    Draw the circuit, then short one side of the floating AC to the rectified ground and you'll see it's killing off one side of the bridge. With only one half of the AC signal rectified, you only get half the power. It's the law.
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  15. #65
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interested View Post
    ...Suggesting that the German bike lights laws are antiquated 1930 leftovers is simply wrong....
    When I use batteries, I light up the world. Go read some of the German blogs, they hate the crappy mandated lights. As far as beam shape and high beams, they are controlled by German law and the basic frame is a leftover from 1930. Cops will ticket you. Pretty funny if it wasn't so stupid.
    IGH's, Dyno Hubs, LED lights and old frames

  16. #66
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    The Plankton has spoken.. out of what ever orifice it has ..
    that's how ya get to 35k posts....
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    When I use batteries, I light up the world. Go read some of the German blogs, they hate the crappy mandated lights. As far as beam shape and high beams, they are controlled by German law and the basic frame is a leftover from 1930. Cops will ticket you. Pretty funny if it wasn't so stupid.
    Yeah, but as soon as anyone mandates anything there's someone complaining about it. There's blogs about how "crappy" cd's supposedly are over records, mp3's over cd's, lossy over lossless, etc etc.

    Here in the US I'm delighted about their "crappy" mandated lights because no US manufacturer has bothered to do more than play around with slightly changing the beam (Light and Motion). Obviously shaped beams work well with car headlights, but the "free market" has yet to produce a US produced light that does the same thing, while Busch and Mueller have done a really good job.

    P.S. I forgot, Supervova may have done it, so maybe 1, but it seemed to be in response to Busch and Mueller.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Fyi, see this thread on dynamo's (though again, please don't get into a debate about dynamo's on this thread that's about a battery light), it looks like there might be a company called AXA-Stenman that's started competing with B&M -
    Saw Luxx70 dynamo light + usb charging available on Amazon US (Luxos U alternative)
    Axa-Stenmann is a old company that has absorbed several other EU bicycle component manufacturers. They have a really strong OEM relationship with many EU bicycle manufacturers and a strong retail presence. They compete on price, not quality. I have owned several battery operated AXA lights and they have all been crap that stopped working after a while.

    Their new LED line is only competing on price, not quality. Their build quality, beam pattern and light output is rather disappointing and far below B&M's quality. Also, their after sale support and repair service is non-existent unlike B&M's. Some of AXA's frame locks, like the AXA Click III, are good (for what security a frame lock gives), but I would personally avoid their lights like the plague.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by interested View Post
    Axa-Stenmann is a old company that has absorbed several other EU bicycle component manufacturers. They have a really strong OEM relationship with many EU bicycle manufacturers and a strong retail presence. They compete on price, not quality. I have owned several battery operated AXA lights and they have all been crap that stopped working after a while.

    Their new LED line is only competing on price, not quality. Their build quality, beam pattern and light output is rather disappointing and far below B&M's quality. Also, their after sale support and repair service is non-existent unlike B&M's. Some of AXA's frame locks, like the AXA Click III, are good (for what security a frame lock gives), but I would personally avoid their lights like the plague.
    Interesting, do you know of anywhere where someone has beam shot pics from from their dynamo lights?

  20. #70
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Yeah, but as soon as anyone mandates anything there's someone complaining about it. There's blogs about how "crappy" cd's supposedly are over records, mp3's over cd's, lossy over lossless, etc etc....
    Those were free market evolutions. Imagine if high beam bike lights were legal. Then we'd have a handlebar switch/button to dim the lights into a shaped beam just like when we drive a car....
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    When I use batteries, I light up the world. Go read some of the German blogs, they hate the crappy mandated lights. As far as beam shape and high beams, they are controlled by German law and the basic frame is a leftover from 1930. Cops will ticket you. Pretty funny if it wasn't so stupid.
    I frequently read German bike forums and I must say I can't recognise what you say. The only group that tend to criticize the law is DIY light builders, since the mandated light cut-off line is almost impossible to make without CAD designed reflectors. The mandatory light part of the law is only valid for bicycles weighing more than 11 kg, so it mostly affects heavy commuter bikes.

    The StZVO law covering vehicles on the public road is indeed from the late 1930's, but that was just a renaming and expansion of existing laws. It goes without saying that laws governing the technical requirements for cars and bicycles did exist in Germany before 1933. I don't think there is a single line in the law regarding bicycle lights that dates back to those days. As I said, that part of the StZVO have been modified many times to follow technical advancements. So trying to taint the StZVO with some nazi affiliation just don't work.

    I have never heard about somebody being ticketed in Germany for using a non-StZVO approved light (a 10 Euro fine unless increased with the 2013 revision). All I have read and heard suggest that the cops really don't care as long as you have a light.

    But I can easily imagine somebody using a non-StZVO approved light that _blind_ oncoming traffic getting a ticket. AFAIK, dazzling oncoming traffic is still regarded as a more serious offence in Germany than speeding.

  22. #72
    another retro grouch Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interested View Post
    ...The only group that tend to criticize the law is DIY light builders....
    Ha, ha, Mr IGH finds the German lighting dissidents! Time for the sprocket dance!

    Quote Originally Posted by interested View Post
    ...dazzling oncoming traffic is still regarded as a more serious offence in Germany than speeding.
    With a 3w 70L LED headlamp? Compared to any motorcycle/automotive head light....
    Last edited by Mr IGH; 04-11-14 at 09:09 PM.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Interesting, do you know of anywhere where someone has beam shot pics from from their dynamo lights?
    Yes:
    BaslerBikes 2. Scheinwerfervergleich 2013 (November) - BaslerBikes - Wir leben Radfahren

    The usual caveats regarding beam shots apply. They are hard to make and may not resemble what the human eye perceives.

    But compare the B&M Luxos 70 with the AXA Luxx70. Same lux rating, but the AXA has a clearly inferior light beam. Even the old B&M 60 lux Cyo has a better beam.

    They also have a third test from 2014 that includes the Ixon IQ Premium, but that test isn't as good; it appears to be taken over two different days, the angles vary a lot, and most photos have a weirdly blueish tint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by interested View Post
    Yes:
    BaslerBikes 2. Scheinwerfervergleich 2013 (November) - BaslerBikes - Wir leben Radfahren

    The usual caveats regarding beam shots apply. They are hard to make and may not resemble what the human eye perceives.

    But compare the B&M Luxos 70 with the AXA Luxx70. Same lux rating, but the AXA has a clearly inferior light beam. Even the old B&M 60 lux Cyo has a better beam.

    They also have a third test from 2014 that includes the Ixon IQ Premium, but that test isn't as good; it appears to be taken over two different days, the angles vary a lot, and most photos have a weirdly blueish tint.
    Wow...thanks for that link! I'll post it over in my other thread about the Luxx70...yikes. That really is horribly bad.

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    P.S. I added some notes to the first post on that the plug-into-the-light doesn't come with the light by default if you order the light without batteries, and how to adjust the mount to fit your average handlebars.

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