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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratell View Post
    Aside from weather hills and riding style matter. I work on top of a hill and I'm a very defensive rider during rush hour so I brake a lot (versus other's who bomb down the hill). When I had rim brakes I had to buy new wheels every year. That quickly makes discs worth it. If you don't have hills or don't use your brakes much it probably doesn't matter.
    I bomb down Sam Jackson and I still needed new rims every 2 years. If you live in a wet climate and ride hills disc brakes become essential (especially for someone who prefers high end rims). I've saved thousands of dollars due to my switch to disc brakes.
    Last edited by spare_wheel; 05-08-14 at 12:48 PM.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  2. #27
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    Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. It seems the general consensus is that disk brakes are worth it in bad weather. I currently live in Michigan so I can check the box for bad weather! I have had times when riding my old mountain bike on roads in the winter that my brakes seemed to do hardly anything. There are also some decent hills in my town.

    I saw a Gravity Zilla (2013) at bikeisland.com for $449 in the size I was going for. Mentioned minor scratches and paint chips on the fork. I think previously the Zilla was only $499, so my guess is that is why it is such a discount. In any case, I grabbed it!! Looks like I get to have the disc brakes that I've always wanted. I imagine at some point I will upgrade at least the front brake to something better, as the Tektro's don't sound too great.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsl View Post
    For the record, I've been car-free since April 1999.
    what's your mileage ratio? mine is approaching 5: ~120K on bikes and ~25K on cars.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  4. #29
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    Honestly I'm looking for something faster and yes easier to ride that distance comfortably multiple times per week - I don't want it to be a strenuous workout. I already spend enough time training for marathons and I am not looking for the absolute quickest commute into my office. I want to enjoy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    I suggest interval training then. YOU are what makes a bike faster. I'll ride your 80's Peugot and beat you to work on anybody's $3K carbon fiber wonder if you aren't as fit as I am. And you probably aren't, even though I am 25 years your senior.

    H

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbmaze View Post
    Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. It seems the general consensus is that disk brakes are worth it in bad weather. I currently live in Michigan so I can check the box for bad weather! I have had times when riding my old mountain bike on roads in the winter that my brakes seemed to do hardly anything. There are also some decent hills in my town.

    I saw a Gravity Zilla (2013) at bikeisland.com for $449 in the size I was going for. Mentioned minor scratches and paint chips on the fork. I think previously the Zilla was only $499, so my guess is that is why it is such a discount. In any case, I grabbed it!! Looks like I get to have the disc brakes that I've always wanted. I imagine at some point I will upgrade at least the front brake to something better, as the Tektro's don't sound too great.
    Congratulations your bike.

    You might want to check the rotors once you get the bike; there are reports that warped rotors are a problem with this particular model. And make sure the brakes are properly adjusted before a ride. The tektro's are not the highest quality, and braking power is average at best. I think it would be wise to look into a possible upgrade.

  6. #31
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    Not sure if you've figured this out yet, but the BD bikes aren't spec'ed with avids. They're spec'ed with ultra low end tektro lyra's.
    Those work too. Lyra users might never describe them as incredible, but they perform consistently and predictably.

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    The reviews I've read for the tektro's suggest that their performance is subpar, probably with less stopping power than higher quality rim brakes. In other words, they're about as mediocre as a lower quality rim brake, and far heavier.

  8. #33
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    The reviews I've read for the tektro's suggest that their performance is subpar, probably with less stopping power than higher quality rim brakes. In other words, they're about as mediocre as a lower quality rim brake, and far heavier.
    I've used them. I didn't think they were as bad as that. I think I would rate them somewhere between BB5's and BB7's.

  9. #34
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    Not sure if you've figured this out yet, but the BD bikes aren't spec'ed with avids. They're spec'ed with ultra low end tektro lyra's.
    Which work exactly like BB7's they're just not as easy to set up(or possibly change pads). My Novato has meh Tektros,but I still have them working just fine.

    BTW,I noticed you missed something:
    Quote Originally Posted by tsl View Post
    Plus, I no longer have to replace rims every spring.
    tsl,I'd like to introduce you to roadandmountain.

    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    This is just completely ridiculous. How many people have had to replace rims because of wear from brake pads? Yeah, that would be no one. Soft rubber pad vs. aluminum rim. Rim wins every time.

    Rims need to be replaced because soft rubber pads rub against them? Is this a joke? I want whatever it is that you're smokin'.

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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    The reviews I've read for the tektro's suggest that their performance is subpar, probably with less stopping power than higher quality rim brakes. In other words, they're about as mediocre as a lower quality rim brake, and far heavier.
    My experience with Tektro Novela mechanical disc brakes coincides with the nature of the reviews you’ve mentioned.

    The Tektro Novela’s tiny disc pads (precisely the diameter of a US nickel) proved virtually useless on descent speeds of 40+ MPH via my 35 pound Trek 29er hardtail. They’d initially slow me to the low 20 MPH range, at which point major brake fade occurred and greater applied brake lever force failed to produce any discernible increase in braking performance. Twice this led to evasive maneuvers in order to avoid collisions with stopped traffic. It was the 2nd close call that caused me to upgrade to Shimano hydraulic disc brakes (M445’s) which are leagues above the lame Tektro’s.

    Since I only weighed 180 pounds and often carry a large backpack loaded with 20 to 25 pounds of provisions depending upon the distance of my ride, it only amounts to a max of 240 pounds that had to be slowed to a stop on a 6° descent (10.51% grade). That shouldn’t be too much to ask of disc brakes, but it was per the inferior Tektro Novela’s.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnosis View Post
    My experience with Tektro Novela mechanical disc brakes coincides with the nature of the reviews you’ve mentioned.

    The Tektro Novela’s tiny disc pads (precisely the diameter of a US nickel) proved virtually useless on descent speeds of 40+ MPH via my 35 pound Trek 29er hardtail. They’d initially slow me to the low 20 MPH range, at which point major brake fade occurred and greater applied brake lever force failed to produce any discernible increase in braking performance. Twice this led to evasive maneuvers in order to avoid collisions with stopped traffic. It was the 2nd close call that caused me to upgrade to Shimano hydraulic disc brakes (M445’s) which are leagues above the lame Tektro’s.

    Since I only weighed 180 pounds and often carry a large backpack loaded with 20 to 25 pounds of provisions depending upon the distance of my ride, it only amounts to a max of 240 pounds that had to be slowed to a stop on a 6° descent (10.51% grade). That shouldn’t be too much to ask of disc brakes, but it was per the inferior Tektro Novela’s.
    That sounds scary. I'll be staying away from disc brakes on road bikes for a long, long time.

  12. #37
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Which work exactly like BB7's they're just not as easy to set up(or possibly change pads). My Novato has meh Tektros,but I still have them working just fine.

    BTW,I noticed you missed something:


    tsl,I'd like to introduce you to roadandmountain.
    Hm, i feel the need to point out that CNC double wall rims have a thicker patterned brake track on the outer wall with a groove for water evacuation. If you're using plain double wall rims, probably not good idea to use rim brakes...?

    - Andy
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  13. #38
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    Yeah, this is one of the dangers of using rim brakes. It is well known that some rims will randomly asplode immediately upon contact with a brake pad.

    The friction between the rim and pad creates a fierce, sometimes overwhelming kinetic explosion with a level of heat equivalent to 10X the heat of the sun at it's surface. According to myth, the remnants of the last martian humanoid colonies, the asplosionoids (having named themselves after the legends of fire on the earth's surface) have seen what is akin to solar flares on the earth's surface.

    Meterologists at NASA and MIT have documented, or at least suspect, that these 'terra flares' are actually alu rim asplosions at the earth's surface. Like savvy epidemiologists, they've discovered correlations between the geo locations of bikesdirect purchases and terra flare asplosions taking place within 20 miles of the homes of bikes direct buyers.

    As such, extra terrestrial mythologies have been borne, lives have been lost, and bikes wasted in these horrible, yet spectacular inter-terrestrial events.

    Someday, we will genetically engineer brave, warrior, fire fighting replicants to put out these fires. Or, perhaps we'd be better off learning how to harness this energy for everyday use.

    Nonetheless, in both legend and lore, the cheap alu walls of bikesdirect bikes, in incendiary combination with granite like, extra hard pads, have created some of the most spectacular and fiery events within our solar system.

    Only gus and his bbq grill have tales greater....

  14. #39
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadandmountain View Post
    Yeah, this is one of the dangers of using rim brakes. It is well known that some rims will randomly asplode immediately upon contact with a brake pad.

    The friction between the rim and pad creates a fierce, sometimes overwhelming kinetic explosion with a level of heat equivalent to 10X the heat of the sun at it's surface. According to myth, the remnants of the last martian humanoid colonies, the asplosionoids (having named themselves after the legends of fire on the earth's surface) have seen what is akin to solar flares on the earth's surface.

    Meterologists at NASA and MIT have documented, or at least suspect, that these 'terra flares' are actually alu rim asplosions at the earth's surface. Like savvy epidemiologists, they've discovered correlations between the geo locations of bikesdirect purchases and terra flare asplosions taking place within 20 miles of the homes of bikes direct buyers.

    As such, extra terrestrial mythologies have been borne, lives have been lost, and bikes wasted in these horrible, yet spectacular inter-terrestrial events.

    Someday, we will genetically engineer brave, warrior, fire fighting replicants to put out these fires. Or, perhaps we'd be better off learning how to harness this energy for everyday use.

    Nonetheless, in both legend and lore, the cheap alu walls of bikesdirect bikes, in incendiary combination with granite like, extra hard pads, have created some of the most spectacular and fiery events within our solar system.

    Only gus and his bbq grill have tales greater....


    Do go on?

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  15. #40
    Daily Rider Robert C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TransitBiker View Post
    I wiped the rims down on both of my old rim brake bikes after wet rides. It made a difference the next time i took them out in stopping distance & decel rate, and it made the pads last longer. Also, keeping the critical safety parts of any human powered vehicle clean should be a priority. A quick spin of the wheel with a cloth on the rotor, simple. In winter when you get the salt & grit on the roads it can cause abrasion to the rotor and pads.

    Most of the folks i know do this for the reasons listed.....

    - Andy
    Interesting point, you may know a lot of people who wipe off their brakes after riding; but I don't know anyone who does. I am not saying it is pointless, just that it might not be as necessary as you seem to think it is.
    As a nation we still continue to enjoy a literally unprecedented prosperity; and it is probable that only reckless speculation and disregard of legitimate business methods on the part of the business world can materially mar this prosperity. – Theodore Roosevelt, Sixth Annual Message, December 3, 1906

  16. #41
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
    Interesting point, you may know a lot of people who wipe off their brakes after riding; but I don't know anyone who does. I am not saying it is pointless, just that it might not be as necessary as you seem to think it is.
    I do not think it's necessary, nor did i ever say it was. Just a bit of half joking friendly advice. Remember to breathe.

    - Andy
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  17. #42
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    Why does every post have to turn into these silly arguments? Properly set up canti/v-brakes/disk brakes work well. Each system has it's own positives and negatives. Try not to get worked up just because somebody's fanboy biases make them unable to acknowledge the benefits and downsides of a system. I think sometimes people are just trying to stir things up to amuse themselves. I really wish they had a word for someone like that .

  18. #43
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
    I don't change wheels every season neither, without disc brakes. Just the regular v-brakes. I commute in the flat lands - for those conditions, v-brakes are more than adequate.
    This heavy gent appreciates how powerful and controllable discs are. Far more than canti's.
    I had probably 12 mechanics set them up and tried myself a billion times. Most likely is that the frame was flex limited braking, per a local specialty builder...

    But, BB7's, stock pads, stock rotors, stops on a dime, even from the interrupters.

    Why are people so hung up that there are better designs (in terms of power and control) even though not all circumstances need the difference... Or that by other criteria other designs do the job better?

  19. #44
    Let's Ride! RidingMatthew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by likebike23 View Post
    Why does every post have to turn into these silly arguments? Properly set up canti/v-brakes/disk brakes work well. Each system has it's own positives and negatives. Try not to get worked up just because somebody's fanboy biases make them unable to acknowledge the benefits and downsides of a system. I think sometimes people are just trying to stir things up to amuse themselves. I really wish they had a word for someone like that .

    1st questions answer is because this is bikeforums. it is what some people do.

    2nd bold section because this is bikeforums. it is what some people do.

    i do think you are right about the last thought. some people just like to stir the pot.
    Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time. Thomas A. Edison

  20. #45
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnosis View Post
    The Tektro Novela’s tiny disc pads (precisely the diameter of a US nickel) proved virtually useless on descent speeds of 40+ MPH via my 35 pound Trek 29er hardtail. They’d initially slow me to the low 20 MPH range, at which point major brake fade occurred and greater applied brake lever force failed to produce any discernible increase in braking performance. Twice this led to evasive maneuvers in order to avoid collisions with stopped traffic. It was the 2nd close call that caused me to upgrade to Shimano hydraulic disc brakes (M445’s) which are leagues above the lame Tektro’s.
    The only brakes I've ever experienced this scenario with are the Roller brakes on our bikeshare bikes.

    BTW,the actual pad material(not the backing plates) of BB5's is a touch less than a nickle,and I've never had an issue with them on 6 bikes.

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  21. #46
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsl View Post
    I don't give a damn about all the theoreticals discussed in the road and mechanics fora. Besides, they're usually a bunch of candy-ass fair-weather riders anyway, who aren't duking it out between granite curbs with half-asleep, texting commuters, who all seem to be running late, and who left their morality and goodwill towards others in the pew on Sunday.


  22. #47
    Team Water Andy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -=(8)=- View Post

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    This heavy gent appreciates how powerful and controllable discs are. Far more than canti's.
    I had probably 12 mechanics set them up and tried myself a billion times. Most likely is that the frame was flex limited braking, per a local specialty builder...

    But, BB7's, stock pads, stock rotors, stops on a dime, even from the interrupters.

    Why are people so hung up that there are better designs (in terms of power and control) even though not all circumstances need the difference... Or that by other criteria other designs do the job better?
    I smirk in your general direction... I could be wrong... I hope not... but I think me and mine, on our 65lb. tandem with the loaded trailer, weigh more than you. We stopped just fine all summer one year when only the front V-brake was working on that bike. Our other tandem has BB7's and they are fine, no question, but we'd still have bought that other tandem if it had OEM V-brakes. I don't rate mechanical disks that much above V-brakes. Hydraulic discs are another matter entirely! Modulation? Are you competing in trials events? How much modulation do you need?

    It's getting harder and harder to buy a bike without discs and that's fine. It's also getting harder and harder to find sidepulls that aren't dual pivot. I kind of smirk when someone says with a straight face that their mini-v or canti or whatever non-disc brake equipped bike only slowed to 20mph when they applied the brakes... ... that wasn't time to upgrade to discs.. it was time to sue the mechanic of the bike they bought!!! Or tell the truth and admit that it wasn't an LBS or manufacturer with accountability on the line that put them on such a death trap in the first place. Old steel rimmed, pre-salmon pad caliper brake bicycles had awful wet weather stopping ability. That kind of sub-par braking ability has not been tolerated in decades. Many on here act like its either disc brakes or .... possible death or injury. Erm... no... that has not been true for a very long time now. And even then, only in wet weather.

    H

    P.S. what do you mean, "even from the interrupters"? There isn't anyone else on BF who thinks that modern interrupters are in anyway akin to the 'suicide levers' of the 80's. Frame flex? Dude... you're killing me...

  24. #49
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    It's getting harder and harder to buy a bike without discs and that's fine.
    Harder to find a MTB without them,but plenty of road,cross,touring,and hybrids with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    It's also getting harder and harder to find sidepulls that aren't dual pivot.
    What's wrong with dual pivots? No through-bolt tension to mess with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    P.S. what do you mean, "even from the interrupters"? There isn't anyone else on BF who thinks that modern interrupters are in anyway akin to the 'suicide levers' of the 80's.
    My DBX has discs and cross levers,my old Conquest Disc R had them. My old ten speed had suicide levers. No comparison. Cross levers actually work.

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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    The only brakes I've ever experienced this scenario with are the Roller brakes on our bikeshare bikes.

    BTW,the actual pad material(not the backing plates) of BB5's is a touch less than a nickle,and I've never had an issue with them on 6 bikes.
    Then it’s not likely that you’ve had to completely stop roughly 240 pounds along with the additional rotating wheel mass of two heavy 29” x 2.1 street tires from speeds of 40+ MPH while still on the steep descent using Tektro Novela disc brakes since you're using Avid BB5's.

    Perhaps Avid BB5’s provide better heat dissipation than the Tektro Novela’s or perhaps the BB5’s provides a more effective disc pad material than the Tektro Novela’s.

    In any case, I made no reference to it being an issue with Avid BB5’s, as my experience was specifically associated with the Tektro Novela’s.

    Incidentally, my Tektro rotors are the standard 160mm and they work fine with the Shimano M445 hydraulic disc brakes.

    Additionally, my cousin’s new Trek Marlin 29er hardtail also came with Tektro Novela mechanical disc brakes and its braking performance was also subpar. After realizing how lousy the Tektro Novela’s were, we’d much rather have had V-Brakes.

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