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Old 05-13-14, 01:35 PM   #1
cramej
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Smart Commuting...

I've been lurking for quite a while here and garnered LOTS of information and entertainment but I've got something that's been bugging me for a while now.

First, I commute occasionally to work and hopefully this summer will increase to twice a week or more. I don't mind sharing the road with other bikers when I am driving, barring stupidity or breaking laws and I'm always courteous to other bikers, runners, etc. who use the sidewalks or roads. BUT....... there is one guy I see riding to work - pretty well outfitted (lights, bright colors. etc.) but he picks the absolute worst time to ride. He's riding on a narrow 2 lane with no shoulder (as in white line and then ditch) during school rush hour in the morning alongside buses, high school drivers, and parents rushing to school. There are other road options and to top it off, I watched him blow through a 4 way stop this morning!

What's your opinion? Smart, dumb, do you ride this kind of road?

John
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Old 05-13-14, 01:47 PM   #2
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He's riding on a narrow 2 lane with no shoulder (as in white line and then ditch) during school rush hour in the morning alongside buses, high school drivers, and parents rushing to school. There are other road options
For me, there are no other road options. The road between me and the train station (either one, I live between two) is this, along with steep hills and lots of curves.
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Old 05-13-14, 01:50 PM   #3
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I've been lurking for quite a while here and garnered LOTS of information and entertainment but I've got something that's been bugging me for a while now.

First, I commute occasionally to work and hopefully this summer will increase to twice a week or more. I don't mind sharing the road with other bikers when I am driving, barring stupidity or breaking laws and I'm always courteous to other bikers, runners, etc. who use the sidewalks or roads. BUT....... there is one guy I see riding to work - pretty well outfitted (lights, bright colors. etc.) but he picks the absolute worst time to ride. He's riding on a narrow 2 lane with no shoulder (as in white line and then ditch) during school rush hour in the morning alongside buses, high school drivers, and parents rushing to school. There are other road options and to top it off, I watched him blow through a 4 way stop this morning!

What's your opinion? Smart, dumb, do you ride this kind of road?

John
Some of us really don't have much choice in terms of time. Three days a week I'm responsible for getting the kids off to school so I can't leave any earlier, nor would it be good for me to arrive at work any later.

As to other route options I guess I can't say. Some people will bike the same route they would drive without realizing that a different route might be much less stressful or even faster by bike.

Would I bike on road like that? Sure, depending on the speed limit and what my other options were. There is a very narrow road on my way to work I will sometimes take if I feel up to maintaining pace with traffic. The speed limit is only 25 mph and I can maintain that (or pretty close) between stops. Often the traffic isn't moving quite that fast anyway and it's only for a mile or so.

Streets around my house can get quite narrow during the winter and at times I'm slowing down traffic behind me (including the occasional school bus) but my safety comes first. I will pull over now and then to let people by if there's room. When I'm in my car, part of the understanding is that the speed limit is just that, - the upper limit. It's not a guarantee. Lots of things can cause traffic to move slower and most of the time it has nothing to do with bikes. We as drivers (or cyclists) just have to deal with it. Having said that if you're riding at a 12 mph pace in a 45 mph lane and you've got 20 cars stacked up behind you the courteous thing to do is periodically let them by.
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Old 05-13-14, 01:55 PM   #4
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How far out of the way are those other routes you would suggest for him? How much time would they add to his ride? Perhaps he has a very tight timeline he is on (like if he is subject to public transportation for part of his commute) where the alternate routes would make him miss his bus/train?

As long as he is hyper aware of his surroundings. I occasionally ride a bike lane in front of a high school and I get cars and buses stopped in the bike lane, cutting me off, etc. I am just have my senses on overdrive right then
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Old 05-13-14, 02:04 PM   #5
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I understand if you do not have other options. I'm lucky enough to have 3 or 4 options for my short 6 mile commute both road and sidewalk/bike path. I actually feel much safer riding the 4 lane 45mph road than I do the bike path next to it. This person could leave 20 minutes earlier and there would hardly be any traffic on that road. His other option is 1 mile away and after he ran the stop sign, he was headed that direction anyway.
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Old 05-13-14, 02:04 PM   #6
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Not sure how you could say there are other road options not knowing where his commute is ultimately taking him. And he may be locked into a commute time and can do nothing about it.

Smart or dumb, it's up to the individual cyclist.

There's a stretch of road I ride each day that would probably garner the same response from you, although it's four lanes, through an urban area. There's decent room on the side for me to ride, and in fact many people cycle on it. But it's hectic, lots of cars, right turn lanes, etc.

Ride your commute ... let others worry about their own.
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Old 05-13-14, 02:05 PM   #7
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This winter I saw a guy a couple times riding through jammed traffic on a highway leading to a bridge into DC. There are much safer alternatives on bike paths on the same route. No idea if the guy knows of the other routes and prefers this route or is simply unaware. However, it's really no concern of mine how, where and when he rides. If the police see him and think otherwise, they'll let him know. If a car takes him out, can't say I'd be all that surprised or concerned. It's the rider's decision for better or worse.
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Old 05-13-14, 02:16 PM   #8
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I understand if you do not have other options. I'm lucky enough to have 3 or 4 options for my short 6 mile commute both road and sidewalk/bike path. I actually feel much safer riding the 4 lane 45mph road than I do the bike path next to it. This person could leave 20 minutes earlier and there would hardly be any traffic on that road. His other option is 1 mile away and after he ran the stop sign, he was headed that direction anyway.
Without knowing what their morning schedule is you can't really say if leaving 20 minutes earlier is an option for them or not. Or they might be one of those people who could leave earlier, and maybe even intends to, but just doesn't. We don't know.

If you're really concerned about it you could just roll your window down one day and chat with him. Compliment his bike. Then say "Hey, you know I bike to work sometimes too. This road must be a nightmare with the school and all the buses. XXXX Street is just a mile a way and a lot calmer this time of day."

They may or may not take your advice. There is nothing else you can do.
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Old 05-13-14, 02:18 PM   #9
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I've been lurking for quite a while here and garnered LOTS of information and entertainment but I've got something that's been bugging me for a while now.

First, I commute occasionally to work and hopefully this summer will increase to twice a week or more. I don't mind sharing the road with other bikers when I am driving, barring stupidity or breaking laws and I'm always courteous to other bikers, runners, etc. who use the sidewalks or roads. BUT....... there is one guy I see riding to work - pretty well outfitted (lights, bright colors. etc.) but he picks the absolute worst time to ride. He's riding on a narrow 2 lane with no shoulder (as in white line and then ditch) during school rush hour in the morning alongside buses, high school drivers, and parents rushing to school. There are other road options and to top it off, I watched him blow through a 4 way stop this morning!

What's your opinion? Smart, dumb, do you ride this kind of road?

John
Hey... I resemble that remark.. to a 'T'. What do you know about my options? Look, you can't have it both ways. Either bicycles are NOT proper road vehicles and should not be using the public roadways. Period. Or they are, in fact, proper road vehicles and can and should use public roadways whenever other proper road vehicles use the same road. What's with this, "bicycles should wait until after rush hour, should not ride in the rain, should not ride after dark, should avoid busy roads... ... maybe... maybe you are right. It isn't very smart. I'll have to think seriously about getting a car and adding to the gridlock. If you are who I think you are, you well know that the roads can't handle the cars that are using it now. Lets add a few thousand former cyclists to that.

H
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Old 05-13-14, 02:23 PM   #10
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Why don't all those motorists leave 20 minutes earlier?
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Old 05-13-14, 02:24 PM   #11
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Without knowing what their morning schedule is you can't really say if leaving 20 minutes earlier is an option for them or not. Or they might be one of those people who could leave earlier, and maybe even intends to, but just doesn't. We don't know.

If you're really concerned about it you could just roll your window down one day and chat with him. Compliment his bike. Then say "Hey, you know I bike to work sometimes too. This road must be a nightmare with the school and all the buses. XXXX Street is just a mile a way and a lot calmer this time of day."

They may or may not take your advice. There is nothing else you can do.
True, I don't know is schedule - just sayin if he was able to leave earlier, he'd probably have lower blood pressure when he got to his destination.

I'd be hesitant to try and roll down my window since I'd have to reach across and crank. I would probably take him out instead of helping I would be too nervous riding along that road when it's busy and my family would have a cow if I did so I choose to go a different route. To each his own...
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Old 05-13-14, 02:29 PM   #12
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Hey... I resemble that remark.. to a 'T'. What do you know about my options? Look, you can't have it both ways. Either bicycles are NOT proper road vehicles and should not be using the public roadways. Period. Or they are, in fact, proper road vehicles and can and should use public roadways whenever other proper road vehicles use the same road. What's with this, "bicycles should wait until after rush hour, should not ride in the rain, should not ride after dark, should avoid busy roads... ... maybe... maybe you are right. It isn't very smart. I'll have to think seriously about getting a car and adding to the gridlock. If you are who I think you are, you well know that the roads can't handle the cars that are using it now. Lets add a few thousand former cyclists to that.

H
If you are who I think you are Well, who do you think I am? If 119th St. rings a bell, then I guess I know you by sight anyway. Just know your don't have to worry about me. I always give you the entire lane when I pass.
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Old 05-13-14, 02:44 PM   #13
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Well, legally nothing doing. Practically though, its not the cyclists fault that the road was built that way. There are many roads like that around here, super busy ones too, main routes etc. Not much you can do. This seems to be an issue in US with motor vehicle centric planning.

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Old 05-13-14, 03:23 PM   #14
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After all this rhetorical discussion, about cycling routes, habits, and tendencies, the one thing that I absolutely cannot ignore, is the fact that this cyclist ran a four way stop sign! If there were vehicles on either side, he should have gotten ticket.

By doing this, he is not only risking his own safety, but the safety of others. This is especially so, during school drop-off and rush hours.
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Old 05-13-14, 03:29 PM   #15
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After all this rhetorical discussion, about cycling routes, habits, and tendencies, the one thing that I absolutely cannot ignore, is the fact that this cyclist ran a four way stop sign! If there were vehicles on either side, he should have gotten ticket.

By doing this, he is not only risking his own safety, but the safety of others. This is especially so, during school drop-off and rush hours.
Agree, but i aint his mama. People should know better.

- Andy
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Old 05-13-14, 03:42 PM   #16
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Agree, but i aint his mama. People should know better.

- Andy
Well dat's too bad___!

...And I betcha woulda been a good mama too!
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Old 05-13-14, 03:50 PM   #17
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After all this rhetorical discussion, about cycling routes, habits, and tendencies, the one thing that I absolutely cannot ignore, is the fact that this cyclist ran a four way stop sign! If there were vehicles on either side, he should have gotten ticket.

By doing this, he is not only risking his own safety, but the safety of others. This is especially so, during school drop-off and rush hours.
I can't speak for all scofflaw cyclists, but, I never run a 4-way if any one of the cross lanes has a car at the stop. Ever. If a car is rolling toward the stop, my 'assumption' is that he is going to stop (its the law). Since I am there first, I will have the right to move off first. So I do... by not stopping first. If he does not stop... things might get interesting, but not life threatening I will have that possibility covered. It isn't rocket science. I am usually scanning for peds too, well in advance, and won't ever blow by a ped with the right of way either. I stop behind school buses that are flashing. Where I come from, no driver would raise his blood pressure about a cyclist running a 4-way or even a stoplight. People are more petty in smaller cities. The ones getting upset are the ones who get passed by a cyclist going in the same direction they are. Why? You pass him seconds later and get to go on your merry way and get to where you are going long before he does. Is that not enough? Do you have to want to add even more time to the bike commute? And why are cyclists so self hating? Are you all acting out as suprerior when behind the wheel? Hmmmm. There should never have been wide acceptance of the fallacy that bicycles are on par with motor traffic and should be governed by the same laws. That was a fail out of the gate and could only have become law because of the self loathing of the cycling community. It gave them some validation to be classified as "motor vehicles". Someone who commutes by bicycle only infrequently does not IMO have enough skin in the game for their opinion to be a persuasive argument for my behavior modification. And, no, 119th does not ring any bells, and no, the cyclist does not need you to give him the entire lane while passing, but, good on him for doing it. Peace.

H
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Old 05-13-14, 04:06 PM   #18
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After all this rhetorical discussion, about cycling routes, habits, and tendencies, the one thing that I absolutely cannot ignore, is the fact that this cyclist ran a four way stop sign! If there were vehicles on either side, he should have gotten ticket.

By doing this, he is not only risking his own safety, but the safety of others. This is especially so, during school drop-off and rush hours.
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I can't speak for all scofflaw cyclists, but, I never run a 4-way if any one of the cross lanes has a car at the stop. Ever. If a car is rolling toward the stop, my 'assumption' is that he is going to stop (its the law). Since I am there first, I will have the right to move off first. So I do... by not stopping first. If he does not stop... things might get interesting, but not life threatening I will have that possibility covered. It isn't rocket science. I am usually scanning for peds too, well in advance, and won't ever blow by a ped with the right of way either. I stop behind school buses that are flashing. Where I come from, no driver would raise his blood pressure about a cyclist running a 4-way or even a stoplight. People are more petty in smaller cities. The ones getting upset are the ones who get passed by a cyclist going in the same direction they are. Why? You pass him seconds later and get to go on your merry way and get to where you are going long before he does. Is that not enough? Do you have to want to add even more time to the bike commute? And why are cyclists so self hating? Are you all acting out as suprerior when behind the wheel? Hmmmm. There should never have been wide acceptance of the fallacy that bicycles are on par with motor traffic and should be governed by the same laws. That was a fail out of the gate and could only have become law because of the self loathing of the cycling community. It gave them some validation to be classified as "motor vehicles". Someone who commutes by bicycle only infrequently does not IMO have enough skin in the game for their opinion to be a persuasive argument for my behavior modification. And, no, 119th does not ring any bells, and no, the cyclist does not need you to give him the entire lane while passing, but, good on him for doing it. Peace.

H
Yeah, there's a reason I didn't respond to the bit about running the stop at the intersection. Topic tends to be controversial.
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Old 05-13-14, 04:20 PM   #19
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Yeah, there's a reason I didn't respond to the bit about running the stop at the intersection. Topic tends to be controversial.
Don't hold back - this thread will go to A&S anyway
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Old 05-13-14, 04:47 PM   #20
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Yeah, there's a reason I didn't respond to the bit about running the stop at the intersection. Topic tends to be controversial.
For some reason, people always tend to forget about the "what-if" factor
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Old 05-13-14, 04:59 PM   #21
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After all this rhetorical discussion, about cycling routes, habits, and tendencies, the one thing that I absolutely cannot ignore, is the fact that this cyclist ran a four way stop sign! If there were vehicles on either side, he should have gotten ticket.

By doing this, he is not only risking his own safety, but the safety of others. This is especially so, during school drop-off and rush hours.
But was there a car in the intersection? If not, nobody was at risk.
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Old 05-13-14, 05:07 PM   #22
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He did make a right turn instead of going straight through the intersection not that it trivializes his actions. There were cars on all sides and some in turn lanes.
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Old 05-13-14, 05:12 PM   #23
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But was there a car in the intersection? If not, nobody was at risk.
Intersections are dangerous places. The intersection is where many fatal accidents take place.
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Old 05-13-14, 05:22 PM   #24
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Intersections are dangerous places. The intersection is where many fatal accidents take place.
I don't disagree, but if the intersection is empty, there is little chance of a fatal accident.

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He did make a right turn instead of going straight through the intersection not that it trivializes his actions. There were cars on all sides and some in turn lanes.
In that case, i'd say he was an idiot. If there are other cars in the intersection, wait your turn.
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Old 05-13-14, 05:25 PM   #25
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... BUT....... there is one guy I see riding to work - pretty well outfitted (lights, bright colors. etc.) but he picks the absolute worst time to ride. He's riding on a narrow 2 lane with no shoulder (as in white line and then ditch) during school rush hour in the morning alongside buses, high school drivers, and parents rushing to school. There are other road options and to top it off, I watched him blow through a 4 way stop this morning!

What's your opinion? Smart, dumb, do you ride this kind of road?

John
In my opinion, it's kinda of stupid to ride the main road if there's a good alternative route available. I roll my eyes a bit at people who choose to ride the main busy road, when they could go 1 sidestreet over and have a route with basically the same distance, but far less traffic.

It gets more complicated if the alternate route is significantly longer or further, though. I choose to ride a route with streets, mostly side streets but a few streets with more traffic, when I could ride almost entirely on bike paths, because rather than being 1:15, it's 0:50 - 20 minutes shorter each way.
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