Financing NYC's bike share
#1
aka Tom Reingold
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Financing NYC's bike share
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#2
contiuniously variable
I say give it a few more months. This past winter was fantastically brutal in the northeast.
- Andy
- Andy
#3
Senior Member
But I don't think that was the problem. Ridership was down, but the annual subscriptions are what essentially sustain it. These will be up for renewal for the original group right about now. I renewed long before mine was due and got the original rate, but my guess is they are almost doubling it.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 284
Bikes: Motobecane
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
But I don't think that was the problem. Ridership was down, but the annual subscriptions are what essentially sustain it. These will be up for renewal for the original group right about now. I renewed long before mine was due and got the original rate, but my guess is they are almost doubling it.
#5
contiuniously variable
Hahaha. Hipster company? More like cutting edge tech company.
Apple would want to use a bike they designed in-house.
- Andy
Apple would want to use a bike they designed in-house.
- Andy
#6
aka Tom Reingold
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Transportation is expensive, and pretty much every form is subsidized. Different forms are subsidized to different degrees. I'm speaking of government subsidies, not corporate sponsorship. I can't imagine an entire enterprise like this paid for by sponsors and users. If it is, it will fail.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 284
Bikes: Motobecane
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Transportation is expensive, and pretty much every form is subsidized. Different forms are subsidized to different degrees. I'm speaking of government subsidies, not corporate sponsorship. I can't imagine an entire enterprise like this paid for by sponsors and users. If it is, it will fail.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MN.
Posts: 239
Bikes: A MTB and something else with 2 pedals.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Get in line Sheeple. Gotta love Liberal/Socialism. And NYC is the shinning star in that category. Jumbo soda anyone? Jmho.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Big City
Posts: 619
Bikes: Brompton M3L, Tern Verge P20, Citi Bike
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
7 Posts
There were some good ideas in the story about other cities getting the bike share sponsored by some big company that wants to advertise. I don't see why some hipster company like Apple or Facebook wouldn't want the good PR of throwing a few million into a project like this. Perfect fit.
I also think bike share should be subsidized; it's transportation that works together with buses and subways. One criticism, fair in my mind, is that its users are overwhelmingly white, affluent, and educated. That will remain the case as long as it is driven by profit. De Blasio has said no city funding for now, but that can change. It dovetails nicely with his Vision Zero initiative for safe streets. In the scheme of the city's transportation budget, bike share is dirt cheap, chump change, not even one percent compared to say the $13.5 billion budget for the MTA, or the $6 billion they receive in taxes and subsidies. I'm not holding my breath exactly, but we shall see. Citi Bike, despite it's troubles, and despite the hue and cry when it launched and complaints now, has a huge constituency behind it, including politicos outside the current coverage area who want it for their districts. I'm cautiously optimistic it will survive, and grow, though expansion will take a long time.
Last edited by wilfried; 05-27-14 at 11:36 PM.
#10
contiuniously variable
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the bridge with Picard
Posts: 5,932
Bikes: Specialized Allez, Specialized Sirrus
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I deleted the political comments. Let's keep those in P&R, please.
#12
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,972
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times
in
1,045 Posts
Perhaps ex-Mayor Bloomberg could come up with the extra needed millions from his petty change account. He contributes millions of dollars to other causes he feels are worthy, and the Citibike program in NYC IS his baby.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 437
Bikes: 80's Treks, cargo bike, Lugged LeMond, Eddy Merckx 7-11, Ciocc resto-mod, All City MM disc, and some more
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You are aware that your state has publicly subsidized bike share, correct? Is less vehicle traffic, a less congested subway system, or a healthier public (and therefore lower health care costs borne by guess who) not something you think a modern society should be striving to achieve? Who exactly are the private entities who would fund any of these goals?
#14
aka Tom Reingold
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times
in
1,433 Posts
He's been perceived as anti-bike, but he doesn't want to play that up now, so he is trying to be quiet on the whole thing. It's not working for me.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
Yes, and that is what I'm responding to. I'd like DeBlasio to be realistic and unprejudiced. By not offering a subsidy to the bike share, he is treating it worse than all other forms of transit.
He's been perceived as anti-bike, but he doesn't want to play that up now, so he is trying to be quiet on the whole thing. It's not working for me.
He's been perceived as anti-bike, but he doesn't want to play that up now, so he is trying to be quiet on the whole thing. It's not working for me.
The economics of bike shares are very favorable, and they do get a significant subsidy in the form of free storage/docking space, so there's absolutely no reason this can't be priced correctly and paid for by user members, with some help from paid advertising. Given the comparative cost per trip, the operators should be able to charge enough to recover capital and operating costs and make a profit.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#16
aka Tom Reingold
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times
in
1,433 Posts
FB, I consider road construction and maintenance to be subsidies.
I agree the Citibike fees are very low. $95 a year is a steal.
I agree the Citibike fees are very low. $95 a year is a steal.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
All of which Bike share users benefit from equally.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
Not really. The equivalent number of bikes would require fewer signals, fewer cops, and much less investment in roads than would the same number taxis or cars.
And I'm sure our own oil resources would be more than adequate to support whatever needs a bike share system would have. It would change our foreign policy priorities (and expenses) quite a bit.
And I'm sure our own oil resources would be more than adequate to support whatever needs a bike share system would have. It would change our foreign policy priorities (and expenses) quite a bit.
#20
Senior Member
Gasoline prices are subsidized.
M.
M.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
Actually Citibikes problems are more political than anything else. It's caught in a political Catch-22, and something has to give.
Citibikes rates are dictated by the terms of it's agreement with NYC, and they cannot raise them. The Mayor is open to a change in the rate structure but won't approve it unless some of the problems are addressed. The problem is that without some added revenue, they don't have the dough to address the issues.
So no raise in rates until they have the dough, no dough until they can raise the rates.
In any case, there's no way the city will cough up cash if they're not willing to allow a rate increase.
Citibikes rates are dictated by the terms of it's agreement with NYC, and they cannot raise them. The Mayor is open to a change in the rate structure but won't approve it unless some of the problems are addressed. The problem is that without some added revenue, they don't have the dough to address the issues.
So no raise in rates until they have the dough, no dough until they can raise the rates.
In any case, there's no way the city will cough up cash if they're not willing to allow a rate increase.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#22
aka Tom Reingold
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times
in
1,433 Posts
That's crazy!
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#24
Senior Member
Well, they just completed a bikeshare study here in Honolulu:
https://www.honoluludpp.org/Portals/0...inalReport.pdf
I really can't make heads or tails of it.
https://www.honoluludpp.org/Portals/0...inalReport.pdf
I really can't make heads or tails of it.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times
in
1,427 Posts
Well, they just completed a bikeshare study here in Honolulu:
https://www.honoluludpp.org/Portals/0...inalReport.pdf
I really can't make heads or tails of it.
https://www.honoluludpp.org/Portals/0...inalReport.pdf
I really can't make heads or tails of it.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.