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  1. #1
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Financing NYC's bike share

    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  2. #2
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    I say give it a few more months. This past winter was fantastically brutal in the northeast.

    - Andy
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  3. #3
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    But I don't think that was the problem. Ridership was down, but the annual subscriptions are what essentially sustain it. These will be up for renewal for the original group right about now. I renewed long before mine was due and got the original rate, but my guess is they are almost doubling it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member andyprough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacster View Post
    But I don't think that was the problem. Ridership was down, but the annual subscriptions are what essentially sustain it. These will be up for renewal for the original group right about now. I renewed long before mine was due and got the original rate, but my guess is they are almost doubling it.
    There were some good ideas in the story about other cities getting the bike share sponsored by some big company that wants to advertise. I don't see why some hipster company like Apple or Facebook wouldn't want the good PR of throwing a few million into a project like this. Perfect fit.

  5. #5
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Hahaha. Hipster company? More like cutting edge tech company.

    Apple would want to use a bike they designed in-house.

    - Andy
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  6. #6
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Transportation is expensive, and pretty much every form is subsidized. Different forms are subsidized to different degrees. I'm speaking of government subsidies, not corporate sponsorship. I can't imagine an entire enterprise like this paid for by sponsors and users. If it is, it will fail.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  7. #7
    Senior Member andyprough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Transportation is expensive, and pretty much every form is subsidized. Different forms are subsidized to different degrees. I'm speaking of government subsidies, not corporate sponsorship. I can't imagine an entire enterprise like this paid for by sponsors and users. If it is, it will fail.
    The article made it clear that mayor de Blasio will not give city funds to the program, so I don't see that you have that option.

  8. #8
    Senior Member yote223's Avatar
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    Get in line Sheeple. Gotta love Liberal/Socialism. And NYC is the shinning star in that category. Jumbo soda anyone? Jmho.
    It's hard to soar with the Eagles when you're flying with Turkeys
    Charter Member of PSIP Coalition.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyprough View Post
    There were some good ideas in the story about other cities getting the bike share sponsored by some big company that wants to advertise. I don't see why some hipster company like Apple or Facebook wouldn't want the good PR of throwing a few million into a project like this. Perfect fit.
    Err, hipster company? Try Citibank, to the tune of $46,000,000 for five years, which turned out to be quite a bargain, given the exposure they've gotten for the price. The problem is that Citi Bikes, with the Citi logo and iconic blue on every bike and kiosk, are so thoroughly Citi branded that other companies can't see the value in adding their sponsorship. Mastercard is also a sponsor, but seems like a forgotten afterthought.

    I also think bike share should be subsidized; it's transportation that works together with buses and subways. One criticism, fair in my mind, is that its users are overwhelmingly white, affluent, and educated. That will remain the case as long as it is driven by profit. De Blasio has said no city funding for now, but that can change. It dovetails nicely with his Vision Zero initiative for safe streets. In the scheme of the city's transportation budget, bike share is dirt cheap, chump change, not even one percent compared to say the $13.5 billion budget for the MTA, or the $6 billion they receive in taxes and subsidies. I'm not holding my breath exactly, but we shall see. Citi Bike, despite it's troubles, and despite the hue and cry when it launched and complaints now, has a huge constituency behind it, including politicos outside the current coverage area who want it for their districts. I'm cautiously optimistic it will survive, and grow, though expansion will take a long time.
    Last edited by wilfried; 05-28-14 at 12:36 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yote223 View Post
    Get in line Sheeple. Gotta love Liberal/Socialism. And NYC is the shinning star in that category. Jumbo soda anyone? Jmho.


    - Andy
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  11. #11
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    I deleted the political comments. Let's keep those in P&R, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by toddles View Post
    So Tom only hires people that are nutty? Is part of the requirement to be a moderator on this site is that you have to be nuts??
    Forum Guidelines *click here*

  12. #12
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Perhaps ex-Mayor Bloomberg could come up with the extra needed millions from his petty change account. He contributes millions of dollars to other causes he feels are worthy, and the Citibike program in NYC IS his baby.

  13. #13
    Senior Member puckett129's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yote223 View Post
    Get in line Sheeple. Gotta love Liberal/Socialism. And NYC is the shinning star in that category. Jumbo soda anyone? Jmho.
    You are aware that your state has publicly subsidized bike share, correct? Is less vehicle traffic, a less congested subway system, or a healthier public (and therefore lower health care costs borne by guess who) not something you think a modern society should be striving to achieve? Who exactly are the private entities who would fund any of these goals?

  14. #14
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyprough View Post
    The article made it clear that mayor de Blasio will not give city funds to the program, so I don't see that you have that option.
    Yes, and that is what I'm responding to. I'd like DeBlasio to be realistic and unprejudiced. By not offering a subsidy to the bike share, he is treating it worse than all other forms of transit.

    He's been perceived as anti-bike, but he doesn't want to play that up now, so he is trying to be quiet on the whole thing. It's not working for me.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Yes, and that is what I'm responding to. I'd like DeBlasio to be realistic and unprejudiced. By not offering a subsidy to the bike share, he is treating it worse than all other forms of transit.

    He's been perceived as anti-bike, but he doesn't want to play that up now, so he is trying to be quiet on the whole thing. It's not working for me.
    I'm unaware of any subsidies for Taxis, or for private vehicles of all kinds. In fact cars are heavily taxed via parking lot taxes. Likewise, no shoe leather subsidy so walkers are on their own.

    The economics of bike shares are very favorable, and they do get a significant subsidy in the form of free storage/docking space, so there's absolutely no reason this can't be priced correctly and paid for by user members, with some help from paid advertising. Given the comparative cost per trip, the operators should be able to charge enough to recover capital and operating costs and make a profit.
    FB
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  16. #16
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    FB, I consider road construction and maintenance to be subsidies.

    I agree the Citibike fees are very low. $95 a year is a steal.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  17. #17
    Senior Member tjspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    I'm unaware of any subsidies for Taxis, or for private vehicles of all kinds. In fact cars are heavily taxed via parking lot taxes. Likewise, no shoe leather subsidy so walkers are on their own.
    road maintenance, sidewalks, signal lights, traffic cops, diplomats and military to keep the oil flowing.
    If you're not riding with a psychedelic gecko on your shirt, you ARE having a substandard experience.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
    road maintenance, sidewalks, signal lights, traffic cops, diplomats and military to keep the oil flowing.
    All of which Bike share users benefit from equally.
    FB
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  19. #19
    Senior Member tjspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    All of which Bike share users benefit from equally.
    Not really. The equivalent number of bikes would require fewer signals, fewer cops, and much less investment in roads than would the same number taxis or cars.

    And I'm sure our own oil resources would be more than adequate to support whatever needs a bike share system would have. It would change our foreign policy priorities (and expenses) quite a bit.
    If you're not riding with a psychedelic gecko on your shirt, you ARE having a substandard experience.

  20. #20
    Senior Member MEversbergII's Avatar
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    Gasoline prices are subsidized.

    M.

  21. #21
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    Actually Citibikes problems are more political than anything else. It's caught in a political Catch-22, and something has to give.

    Citibikes rates are dictated by the terms of it's agreement with NYC, and they cannot raise them. The Mayor is open to a change in the rate structure but won't approve it unless some of the problems are addressed. The problem is that without some added revenue, they don't have the dough to address the issues.

    So no raise in rates until they have the dough, no dough until they can raise the rates.

    In any case, there's no way the city will cough up cash if they're not willing to allow a rate increase.
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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  22. #22
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    That's crazy!
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  23. #23
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    That's crazy!
    Waddaya expect.
    FB
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    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  24. #24
    Senior Member GhostSS's Avatar
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    Well, they just completed a bikeshare study here in Honolulu:

    http://www.honoluludpp.org/Portals/0...inalReport.pdf

    I really can't make heads or tails of it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostSS View Post
    Well, they just completed a bikeshare study here in Honolulu:

    http://www.honoluludpp.org/Portals/0...inalReport.pdf

    I really can't make heads or tails of it.
    You're not intended yo understand it. This is a government report, by, of, and for government employees. By virtue of being inconprehensible, it allows officials to claim justification for doing whatever they want to to.
    FB
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    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

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