erig007

It seems you haven't tried noseless saddles. I could ride mine all day too, from day one, it is long lasting and weatherproof. There is 0% pressure on the perineum. Can't say the same with Brooks. By design it must has something like 10-40% of pressure on the perineum/soft tissues. (Cut-out doesn't solve anything it just moves the problem to another area). On a 10-15hr ride 10-40% of pressure on the perineum/soft tissues can be noticeable. Noseless saddles have some drawbacks but the one they usually don't have is pressure on the perineum like Brooks.

vic303

I salvaged an old Brooks saddle, (Professional) that had been hanging in a barn for a LOOOONG time. After a couple of liberal coatings of proofhide, it is in good shape. I use it currently on my MTB, and may move it over to my Roubaix if I decide the Spec BG saddle isn't comfy enough. The only real issue I have with the Brooks is the rails are short compared to modern saddles. Oh, and due to leather drying and pulling away from the rear rivets, I had to take a mallet and tap down the copper rivets to smooth out the edges of them in line with the leather after all the years of drying.

As for a saddle cover, I'd carry a plastic grocery bag with me if I was going to ride in the rain.

fietsbob

1 down 10,000 to go.. World wide, there's a lot of saddles made.

noglider 

When I started reading C&V in about 2009, I rolled my eyes at all the Brooks devotees. But I've reconnected with my like for the saddles, and I own three now. Actually, one is a recovered RHM saddle, on a Brooks frame. I like leather saddles, heavy weight and all. But they're not for everyone.

If you want a comfortable saddle that doesn't mind rain, any of the modern saddles might work. You have to try a few models before you find one that suits your butt.

Or you could try a Brooks C-17 (aka Cambium). It is a suspended saddle like the leather saddles, but it's made of synthetic materials. It feels like a Brooks and is priced like one.

If you take care of a Brooks, it ends up being a good value. They give you more years per dollar than most saddles. That doesn't mean they're for everyone. Not everyone wants to keep rain off their saddles. Not everyone will tolerate the extra weight. Not everyone will find it comfortable. Not everyone will tolerate the price.

If you find a modern saddle suits you, I'm not going to tell you that you need a Brooks. Whatever works is fine.

I recommend some lubrication to get rid of creaking. There's no reason to tolerate that. As @chewa said, it might be at the rails, so lubricate the rails and reinstall the saddle. Or lubricate the points where the frame and the cover meet. Or both, really.

noglider 

We're talking about a very sensitive and private area. It matters a lot.

martianone

If your leather / metal frame saddle creeks or squeaks a little while riding; turn your bike upside down (or take the saddle off), loosen the saddle tensioner about half a turn, spray the metal frame with Boeshield (wd40 works ok too), then tighten the tensioner back. This usually takes care of the matter.

bragi

You are a genius. Either that, or loosening and then tightening the tension on the saddle randomly fixed the problem. I'm going with genius. I did what you suggested (used WD 40, and included the bottom of the rivets) and then took the bike out and romped on the saddle up and down hills, in high gear and in low. No creaking at all. My attitude about the B-17 is suddenly much more positive, because it's still really comfortable, it's still not waterproof, but it's quiet again. (2 out of 3 is pretty good) Thanks!

I'm kind of intrigued about the Cambium C-17, though. If I could get a quiet saddle that's as comfortable as the B-17, but is also waterproof, I'd be happy. I know it's a minor thing, but having to worry about a weather-sensitive piece of equipment in a place where it rains 100+ days a year is kind of a pain in the a**.

noglider 

If I were you, I would stuff a plastic grocery bag or a shower cap into the seat from the back. When it rains, use the bag or shower cap.

martianone

Glad to hear WD40 was successful for you. Not sure about the genius part, experienced- perhaps. Have been riding leather/metal saddles since 1960, have learned a couple things over time.
i too am curious about C-17, going to try one for my next bike project.

Duane Behrens

Worth repeating. And so very true.

Bike Gremlin

I found brooks Flyer too cold in the cold days. So for summer it is the best, but for the autumn, winter and spring, a synthetic saddle is better for me. Some oil on the springs and no sounds from the saddle.

kickstart

Some people have made comments because I have a Lepper Primus on my Robin Hood, and a Brooks B135 on my Flying Pigeon, "seat costs more than the bike" ect. but IMO the seat is the most important component, everything else is secondary.

noglider 

I had to look up both those saddles. I was unfamiliar with both.

The seat isn't as important to me as it is to you, but the fact that it is to you expresses the point well. I'm pretty lucky in that most saddles are OK with me. There are a few that are absolute torture devices for me, so I understand when people tell me that it's important to them. Both Fizik saddles I have tried has been awful, and they were very different from each other. To each his own. The saddle on the Citibike (NYC bike share program) is bad for me, but that's probably because I'm an athletic cyclist and don't ride upright bikes often. I have to scooch all the way back and stay off the nose.

jdswitters

Exactly. My dedicated commuter has to stay outside all day while I'm at work. I had a brooks on there, and found that while I love the saddle I did not love taking care of it. My bike has fenders, IGH, roller brakes and cross tires, etc., it was a four season bike with a fair weather saddle. That lasted a year or so. I put the brooks on a fair weather bike and put a WTB speed v on the commuter and never looked back.

TransitBiker

Not sure if any of you saw this ad, but i found it hilarious given the thread topic.........

Screenshot by Lightshot

- Andy

lostarchitect 

Noseless saddles are snake oil. If the saddle is set up properly, and is correct for the rider's sit bones, there is little pressure on the perineum--especially with a hard saddle like a Brooks which doesn't have padding that squishes upwards.

erig007

Those aren't leather saddles but if you look at the design, hardness of those saddles (first column on the right next to weight is hardness (60 being quite hard, 45 softer), the next one is pressure relieve level (the higher the better)) you will notice that some saddles that are pretty close to brooks saddles like the 611 one barely reach 75% of pressure relieve. I doubt brooks can do much better on this. Noseless saddles like the one at the top reaches 100% pressure relieve.

rhm

In my opinion these "brooks versus everything else" saddle questions miss the point. There is a series of questions at play.

The most basic question is: hard surface or upholstered?

Either way, you can then ask what's the best material: leather, plastic, or other; but note, a hard leather saddle (such as Brooks) is a fundamentally different beast than an upholstered leather saddle (of which there are many, I don't know what they are, because they don't interest me)

Either way, you can also ask what's the best frame: steel, aluminum, titanium; with springs, or without; and so on.

And then there's questions of size (width) and shape (nose or noseless, flat or arched or grooved top, or a big hole cut in it, and so on.

And of course there are questions of quality.



In my opinion, a hard saddle is always better than a padded one, and of all the hard materials I've tried, leather is best. Unica used to make a hard rubber saddle called a Nitor, which became the Cinelli Unicanitor; those are really quite good but very hard to find now. Later plastic versions look the same but are pretty terrible.

Steel or titanium frames seem best; I have heard aluminum framed saddles are very uncomfortable.

As for the shape, the standard leather saddle shapes have been around for over a century, and I think Brooks and other manufacturers would be wise to consider updating the shapes. I've remade a couple leather saddles so they have a groove down the center, and it's definitely a workable idea, but I don't think I've mastered the technique yet.

As for the quality, there seems to be general agreement that Brooks' current offerings are not up to the quality level of what they were making 25+ years ago. I don't know why this is; it may even be intentional (you can sell more saddles if people replace them every 5,000 miles). There are many other manufacturers, or at least many other brands.

As for the shape, I prefer them pretty narrow, but this is really a matter of preference, based not so much on anatomy as riding style. If your handlebar is higher than the bar, you want a wider saddle. If lower, you want a narrow saddle.

lostarchitect 

I have no idea how they determined those numbers, but I am pretty certain they're mostly BS. Harder saddles put more pressure on the perineum? I doubt it. Softer saddles less? Not likely. They are selling you a product. This is advertising.

Incidentally, none of those saddles are "pretty close to brooks saddles." Not a single one is a hard suspended leather or rubber saddle. They all have a shell and padding, every single one. Totally, utterly different.

erig007

Nowhere they say that Harder saddles put more pressure on the perineum


Those numbers are actual tests determined via thermograms. Thermographic devices are pretty cheap nowadays.

Here is an example



They explain on their website and gives links to scientific studies that they choose so yep it is biased in some way. Scientific studies are real though i've already checked them on pubmed.

The easyseat one isn't from SQlab but from Hobson so not much marketing bias here.
I have 2 SQlab saddles (610 active and 604 airflow) and also a noseless saddle from Hobson, not the easyseat though

The 610 active (hardness 55) is a loftier version of the racier 611 one (hardness 60) and i already find it quite hard. So the 611 must be pretty hard.
Confirmed in a review
Review: SQlab 611 Active and 611 Race Saddles | Mountain Bike Review
I've noticed after comparing 604 airflow with 610 that extra gel tend to gather heat especially during long rides in summer days.
So i believe that gel saddles are better during cold ride and that for this reason brooks saddles lose their advantage in cold weather.
(But i find my 604 airflow very comfy for less than 2 hour rides (which is pretty much most commute rides))


Also regarding the new cambium saddle, after checking the engineeringtoolbox website i've noticed that friction is maxed when materials in contact are the same. The cambium saddle is made of cotton and what we wear can be cotton as well....
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fr...nts-d_778.html

lostarchitect 

I don't buy it, but to each their own. Glad you like it.

Bikeforumuser0011

Nope, sorry. I've had my Brooks B18 since November, and that first time my ass hit the saddle was like coming home. So very comfortable. But, they're not everyone's cup of tea. Hope you find something that works for you!

Bikeforumuser0011

+1

erig007

It wen't on SQlab vs Brooks but my point was about noseless vs Brooks.

From another angle, noseless saddles have no nose and at least my noseless saddle has an adjustable cut out so there is nothing to put pressure on the perineum. Where there is no contact there is no pressure. So even without the SQlab chart we can say that there is no pressure on the perineum.

Brooks saddles have nose... pressure or not pressure, that is the question

905

I feel like a bit of a peeping tom in this thread. As a vegan, the mere thought of a Brooks should have me reaching for the smelling salts. Then again I wear leather shoes. (Us dietary vegans don't eat our shoes.)

Brooks just looks so good! Like a handsome honest saddle on a horse, as mentioned upthread.


Brooks, with saddle bag to keep your Proofide


Meat market at a bike show

My preference, Specialized something-or-other, isn't made anymore, so I've been reduced to grabbing them off eBay as they turn up. Fortunately I've now got enough backups to last a while.


Wrong closet