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passing rage while commuting

Old 06-28-14, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by side_FX
It's hard to believe but I don't think many walker types understand what OYL means. I usually yell from a distance further than I probably should to give them enough time to react, usually just a Excuse me or hello! And a thanks as I ride by. Seems to be best way to do it for me
They're not in a conversation with you when you start, so they don't catch the first word or two of what you're saying. The first word they hear, if you're lucky, is "left," and half of them will do exactly what you asked, and step to their left.
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Old 06-29-14, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
i agree that shouting "on your left" is a bit rude but in my experience bells confuse many north american pedestrians/cyclists and are sometimes hard to hear.
Depends on the bell and where you are. Here in Seattle most people seem to understand the bell, assuming they can hear it. Do everyone a favor a buy a large brass bell. Brass bells are in a league their own. The Crane Suzu is amazing. I was totally happy with my quite decent "Temple of Tone" bells for many, many years, but when I got my girlfriend a nice Crane Suzu and I heard it for the first time, I knew that my favorite bell for nearly two decades was obsolete. The tone is super clear and carries about twice as far as any other bell I've heard. When we ride together, I ask her to use her bell even if she's behind me, because it carries so much further and is clearer and louder. Despite having a stockpile of Temple of Tones, I bought a Crane for the new commuter I'm building up. Absurdly, it's one of the things I'm most looking forward to when that build is complete. Love me a good bell!

The more time people have to react, the less problems you will have. A bell with longer reach will give you that time.
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Old 06-29-14, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dynaryder
I've had the opposite experience;when calling OYL I've had people actually move left. The bell they seem to understand.

+1 People hear "left" and very often step to left unless they are experienced.
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Old 06-29-14, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
I agree with you, I think the other person was an idiot.

Even on trails, when I pass I give plenty of room - a body size for joggers and walkers, more if the space is available, and more if the person seems uncertain. Give plenty of space to bikers to.

But I don't yell out on your left. I don't like it because:
1. Some people only hear "xxxxx left", and they think they're supposed to jump to the left for some reason. One person I almost hit.
2. Many people are wearing headphones and can't hear you anyways
3. It's annoying to do and it makes my ride less enjoyable. If it wasn't for #1 and #2 I might do it anyways, but those are a problem.

Rather than a bell, I do wish someone made something that constantly made the noise certain expensive hubs make when you coast that "fishing reel with a fish on it" noise. Would be nice for people being able to hear me behind them. Never been able to find something like that though.
Take a clothes pin and stick a playing card in your spokes!

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Old 06-29-14, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by metz1295
i always announce. sometimes twice if i'm moving quick and coming up on a group of walkers or joggers. however, i have never experienced your scenario. with that if you are in a completely different lane on a roadway, there is no need to announce. that would be like giving your horn a little tap every time you pass another car.
Strangely, I've experienced several car drivers that did just that when passing me on a bike. Appeared clear to me that they weren't trying to be rude or angry, they just thought they should warn me. As if I couldn't hear them, much less see them in my rearview mirror and they were passing safely anyway...
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Old 06-29-14, 09:24 AM
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Where I am most cyclists pass too close, I don't understand the mind set? Maybe they are like the motorist who tailgates. They just don't think.
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Old 06-29-14, 10:28 AM
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I've had this debate with some other cycle commuting coworkers. I made the case that singing out is polite but not safe, because if you scare someone up within their ability to hear behind them, they have exactly enough time to react by turning to their left to look behind them, and into your path. If you zip past they will be annoyed but you won't hit them.
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Old 06-30-14, 07:45 AM
  #33  
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I rarely, if ever, say OYL. One, headphones on most walkers makes it pointless. Two, in the morning there just aren't many people going my way.

Sometimes I'll offer a good morning/afternoon, once there was a mom riding with her son in one of those handlebar mounted kid seats and I told him "I like your ride."

I don't have a bell either. If I'm commuting on my roadie, I've got one of those loud freewheel hubs like someone mentioned earlier. I'll just coast for a second and people will hear it. On my CX/commuter, I've purposefully left the front canti adjusted in such a way that it will squeal when I use it, and most of the time I just have to blip it and it'll squeal enough to get someone's attention.

If neither works, I just get as far left as possible, pass quickly and hope for the best
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Old 06-30-14, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ill.clyde
I rarely, if ever, say OYL. One, headphones on most walkers makes it pointless. Two, in the morning there just aren't many people going my way.

Sometimes I'll offer a good morning/afternoon, once there was a mom riding with her son in one of those handlebar mounted kid seats and I told him "I like your ride."

I don't have a bell either. If I'm commuting on my roadie, I've got one of those loud freewheel hubs like someone mentioned earlier. I'll just coast for a second and people will hear it. On my CX/commuter, I've purposefully left the front canti adjusted in such a way that it will squeal when I use it, and most of the time I just have to blip it and it'll squeal enough to get someone's attention.

If neither works, I just get as far left as possible, pass quickly and hope for the best

I try to always compliments the kids who are out learning to ride. and they get a huge "thank you" or "good job" if their parents are making obvious efforts to teach them good etiquette.

headphone wearers and ignorant groups are the worst. I have a bad habit of buzzing a little closer when I have to announce more than twice and they still don't move or even acknowledge that I'm coming up on them.
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Old 06-30-14, 08:16 AM
  #35  
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I've yelled on your left before only to have someone jump to their left almost running into me. The last time I yelled heads up & that seemed to work better. A beach bike path is part of my route home which has been a lot busier the last month or so, lots of idiots to maneuver around.
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Old 06-30-14, 08:20 AM
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I often encounter one type of path user that just won't listen no matter what. It's not because of headphones or inability to see me. No, their ears and eyes are pointing right at me. They will just stay in one place until I get closer.

Once they realize I am within about 10 feet of them, they run right in front of me. Even if I try to go behind them, they may pull 180 degree turn and still dart in my path. It doesn't matter if I make noise, say OYL, or whatever. They are just clueless.

Damn bunnies.
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Old 06-30-14, 08:32 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
I've yelled on your left before only to have someone jump to their left almost running into me..
Maybe they thought "on your left" was an order, like "on your feet!"
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Old 06-30-14, 08:46 AM
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I don't think there's any practice that is both best for your own safety and also best for not startling people, unless that is simply to avoid riding on a MUP. Whatever you call out, it makes it more likely there will be a collision, except perhaps in a case where somebody is drifting into your path. And in such a case you could always choose to avoid the situation yourself by slowing down, changing your course, veering off the path, etc. I don't think there's anything you can say though that will predictably make people avoid your intended route and make them comfortable with your presence too. Some people will get the idea quickly. Others will do the opposite of what you want and would have a safer and more predictable presence by just not being aware of you.
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Old 06-30-14, 08:53 AM
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I had some misadjusted canti brakes for a while, and they sure worked better than a bell. Nothing says "don't use the whole d**n path" like an ear-splitting brake squeal!
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Old 06-30-14, 09:03 AM
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I almost always give an "on your left" when passing cyclists, especially on the roads. It's always followed up by some sort of general pleasantry as I'm passing like "great day for a bike ride!" or "sure is nice out!" Never had anyone give me gruff for it and I usually get thank yous as I'm passing. I was recently passed by a roadie on my morning commute, came in around 2-3 feet away so not super close, but he still caught me off guard. He was going waaaaay faster than me and I don't ride with headphones, sometimes you just don't hear another cyclist coming up behind you. Not everyone's got that Chris King buzzzzzz, so I've always found it helpful to shout out and get shouted at when I'm riding; it's not rude, it's just something that lets people know what's going on around them.
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Old 06-30-14, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mgw4jc
I often encounter one type of path user that just won't listen no matter what. It's not because of headphones or inability to see me. No, their ears and eyes are pointing right at me. They will just stay in one place until I get closer.

Once they realize I am within about 10 feet of them, they run right in front of me. Even if I try to go behind them, they may pull 180 degree turn and still dart in my path. It doesn't matter if I make noise, say OYL, or whatever. They are just clueless.


Damn bunnies.


LOL! I deal with those kind every Saturday but enjoy seeing them just the same....
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Old 06-30-14, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker
Maybe they thought "on your left" was an order, like "on your feet!"
Haha could be! They're quick to give the deer in headlights look on their face.
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Old 06-30-14, 02:42 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by howeeee
IF I startle someone walking or riding,,I always say I am sorry before they get a chance to get angry...always works
i usually say i am sorry if i do startle them.

Originally Posted by dynaryder
I've had the opposite experience;when calling OYL I've had people actually move left. The bell they seem to understand.
this happens all the time to me on the greenway.

Originally Posted by jyl
I do not normally announce my passes. People, and especially pedestrians, react unpredictably to any alert you give them. I simply make it my business to pass quickly and safely. The only times I say "on your left" or similar is when what I really mean is "get out of my way", like when the person(s) have made themselves very wide, are weaving back and forth, swinging small dogs on leashes, and similar behavior.
it depends on if they are walking in a straight light or other variables. i have yelled when a whole herd of people are taking up the entire greenway. helps them get their children and dogs under control.

i never tell anyone anything when I am passing on the road. Be aware of your surroundings.

Sometimes I go off the greenway into the grass to give them space it makes more noise so they hear me coming and realize I am going to pass them... soon
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Old 06-30-14, 06:30 PM
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If someone is keeping to the right I'll not do anything. If two people are side by side or someone is in the middle of the path I'll ring my bell. Works well nearly all of the time now (it's taken a few years for people in Minnesota to get use to bells, but they have and it works much better).

I stopped using OYL several years ago. Low success rate and too many people stepped to their left instead of to the right, even after decades of people shouting it.
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Old 07-01-14, 07:34 AM
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I ring the bell when approaching, say " passing left" when going by. I think that " passing left" is much clearer for the i-pod zombies I have to pass.
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Old 07-01-14, 08:04 AM
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Unfortunately there are a small percentage of people who are flat out nutcases. Best policy is to avoid any interaction whatsoever with them, pass and gone. If for some reason you do have to interact with them, I've found that it's sometimes to rely on pro forma social rituals, triggering the conditioned responses which they hopefully learned in childhood.

I can't always tell while approaching from behind that it may be a socially deranged individual, barring obvious erratic behavior. That's why I like the bell, taking a page out of Pavlov's book. Ring the bell, then pass politely with some form of formal social acknowledgement. I think that the formality is critical because the response is already learned and habitual, while avoiding familiarity. It conditions him to associate the sound with a successful social interaction, and soon only the bell is needed to induce the same positive emotional response.
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Old 07-01-14, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
I just had someone angrily lecture me for passing too closely and for not calling out, "on your left". The cyclist was in the middle of a bike lane and I passed in the vehicle lane while climbing (SW Terwilliger in Portland). They were going ~10 mph and I passed at ~14 mph.

1. When a cyclist has a 5-6 foot wide bike lane to themselves and I enter an arterial lane to pass, I am never going to call out "on your left". (I almost always call out, "on your left", when passing in a wide shared lane/trail/mup.)

2. When a cyclist in the middle of a 5 foot bike lane passing ~2-3 feet to the left of the white stripe is a safe pass .
I’m not suggesting that you didn’t pass him via a roughly 4 MPH greater speed during your ascent, as such is well within the realm of realistic.

However, I can’t imagine it having been much of a “lecture” if you were passing at a speed greater by 4 MPH, as that that would have you gaining an additional distance of 5.867 feet per second (in essence, gaining a bike length per second).

By just 10 seconds later you’d be at least 10 full bike lengths ahead of him, at which point, it would be quite difficult to discern much of anything he was ranting about with a 14 MPH wind noise in your ears, him directly behind you by so many bike lengths, and his audio amplitude significantly diminishing via the ever increasing distance.

I think it must have been more like, “I heard him ranting in an irate manner as his voice soon enough faded to an unintelligible murmur.

I concur that you passed him safely and any lecture on his behalf was altogether unwarranted.
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Old 07-01-14, 04:55 PM
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Yeah bunnies are definitely the worst type of path user.

I never bother with "on your left" because around here, the odds of someone understanding me are quite slim. I just pass cautiously and silently, or say "hello" as necessary.
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Old 07-01-14, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnosis
I’m not suggesting that you didn’t pass him via a roughly 4 MPH greater speed during your ascent, as such is well within the realm of realistic.

However, I can’t imagine it having been much of a “lecture” if you were passing at a speed greater by 4 MPH, as that that would have you gaining an additional distance of 5.867 feet per second (in essence, gaining a bike length per second).

By just 10 seconds later you’d be at least 10 full bike lengths ahead of him, at which point, it would be quite difficult to discern much of anything he was ranting about with a 14 MPH wind noise in your ears, him directly behind you by so many bike lengths, and his audio amplitude significantly diminishing via the ever increasing distance.

I think it must have been more like, “I heard him ranting in an irate manner as his voice soon enough faded to an unintelligible murmur.

I concur that you passed him safely and any lecture on his behalf was altogether unwarranted.
It was a she. And she stood up, sprinted, and caught up with me. She was out of breath and very angry. Kind of surreal.
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Old 07-01-14, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
It was a she. And she stood up, sprinted, and caught up with me. She was out of breath and very angry. Kind of surreal.
That does sound pretty bizarre. I do occasionally flip out like she did, but only if I get a close pass. Like close enough to touch elbows with the person passing me. People rarely say OYL over where I ride. It's also usually roadies who do this to me, but that could be because most people who pass me are roadies. It's like some of them are so clueless about passing that they think I'm not going to hit a pothole and accidentally drop into them during their pass or something. Y'know, a pothole I probably would have noticed if they didn't pass by close enough to touch elbows and startle me. As for me, I always try to give as much room as I can when passing other cyclists and pedestrians on the street and on the MUP. If there's room, I will move into the next traffic lane to pass.

I've only come across indignant pedestrians and cyclists when riding on MUP's. Granted, it's their fault for hogging the entire MUP by walking three or more abreast and acting like they're the only ones using it. One of my pet peeves about riding on MUP's is definitely when I come across a slower group of peds or cyclists hogging both lanes and refusing to move aside for faster moving people or especially for people approaching from the opposite side.
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