TrikeRider1961

The people on this forum who choose not to obey the traffic laws while riding are probably also the ones who yell the loudest when a motorized vehicle runs a stop sign or red light. Like said in a previous post, laws are a code of conduct meant to insure predictable behavior, so that people can anticipate their activities. Bicyclists want respect, and recognition as valid roadway users, that requires obedience to applicable laws.

acidfast7

I agree with this.

Equal rules/rights/enforcement for all road users, including pedestrians crossing the street. At that point, money will be spent on each group, proportionality, based on modal usage.

Walter S

I'm sorry, I thought you might realize that even a slight collision would be very disturbing. You think having occasional collisions with cars is the way to learn how to ride?

I go to great lengths to avoid collisions with cars. To even tempt that is extremely dangerous. I've had one collision with a car in my life, where I was going down a hill and the driver clipped my left arm which caused my handlebars to turn and had me leaning against the car going down the hill at over 40 mph. I came so close to crashing that day. I thank God that I didn't! It was very disturbing and scary. I don't wish that kind of experience on anybody.

Those kinds of lessons are not the best way to learn to ride safely. I think we all need far more margin of safety than that. To me, a close call is not having a minor collision. I call it a close call when the buffer I've mentally allocated for myself is even slightly compromised. Do you occasionally run into cars to find out where your limits are? Really?

Walter S

You sit at the red lights that won't turn green until a car arrives. In the meantime I have a job to get to.

acidfast7

With everything I test the limits. This is quite common for someone who moves a lot.

There is a huge difference between cycling in the London area (SE England in general) and here where it's a beautiful college campus (best in England most say). I find that I can take the lane and use it in a roundabout (which is quite scary actually as the cars are on the wrong sides of the street for my brain to automatically process) and I have had a few people yell and honk at me (even though I am legally in the right).

That's the limit for this region.

Do not attempt in London area (as the infrastructure isn't there):

Cycling in London - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

acidfast7

Technically, dismount the bike and walk it around the corner, which is legal as you become a pedestrian.

Plan ahead to understand that you may hit a red light or two and you won't be delayed at work.

Seems like you're egotistically putting your need to sleep in above following the rules of the infrastructure you're using? What am I missing?

gear64

By cautious do you mean full stop? I think red lights deserve a full stop. If it's low traffic where the excessive wait is a known reality, then my experience is police always look the other way if you full stop wait a minute look both ways and go. At stop signs I'll slow roll IF I have excellent view of all directions and the speed limit is relatively low to begin with, It's also been my harsh experience that motorists don't stop at stop signs either. I think we all know who "wins" that collision. If we want respect from motorists, we must act like we have respect for the law. I think there are times when common sense rules, but as much as possible it should be in situations where it's clear it's common sense and not selfish arrogance. Here many people blow the don't cross signal on MUPs even across high speed, high volume streets; often playing chicken even though most of the lights change in seconds when you stop and push the button.

Walter S

I again think that you might be beginning to understand. Will you go troll somewhere else now?

acidfast7

We usually put a pair of metal fences precisely so one can't do that, or the signal is out/or the rider doesn't see it. It forces the rider to go through really slowly in a chicane pattern. This is where rural MUPs cross a potentially busy street and not in an urban setting.

Why not, it's only a few €/£/$ and could save lives?

acidfast7

I'm not trolling, I find everything you've said here to be extremely egotistical.

Instead of shooing me away because I pose a logical response to your egotism, why don't you engage in intellectual discourse.

Does someone objectively saying you're selfish bother you?

Walter S

I fully encourage anybody that wants to debate when and which laws should be broken, to start a thread on that topic. That is not what this thread is about.

acidfast7

ok.

First post ... Are you actually asking BF to estimate the psychological state of officers watching people cycle around?

Medic Zero

Well, you just proved that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Medic Zero

You may not think you are trolling, but lots of other folks think you are. You should think about that.

BTW, your response wasn't logical.

Walter S

You still don't get it! I thought you understood but you keep posting. Yes, I'm selfish as hell. I'm interested primarily in my own safety and convenience. I use the network of roads (as a tax paying citizen) according to my own rules. I find moral comfort in knowing that I'm not interfering with anybody else's freedom.

I'm a lost cause. I'm not trying to set a good example for anybody. I encourage you to stop wasting your time trying to change my behavior. Get yourself a pet.

acidfast7

Honestly, last protest that resulted in a changed law or removal of an elected official on a national level?

I'd love to be proven wrong as the US is critically important on the global stage and most people living abroad are concerned that the citizens aren't putting the government to task often often enough.

Walter S

Exactly. Or better yet, see a post from an actual police officer about how they perceive this.

Medic Zero

I'd like to see the evidence for that statement.

acidfast7

Well, I don't feel bad about derailing a self-serving thread from a selfish person.

Then again, I repeat my earlier statement, and hope that my not following the rules, you subject your to harm/injury as an example to other about how to follow the rules properly. That would provide societal value in the end.

BillyD

Basically a 2-man argument . . . closing.