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  1. #51
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbagrannygear View Post
    I get it (sort of) that safety isn't your primary concern, but just want to caution you: It is my understanding that the shiny plastic covering on conventional Styrofoam helmets is there so if you hit the ground with forward velocity (Duh?), your head will slide after impact rather than the Styrofoam catching the asphalt and you breaking your neck (generally to be avoided if possible). Don't have any data to back this up but you might be statistically safer without a helmet then modifying one that may behave in ways you don't anticipate.
    Same reason that we have loose scalp, there's some give there instead of yanking our head around. I'm more than a little skeptical about the plastic over styrofoam performing that way though, since we still have our scalp inside after all, and the harness has some give in it as well. Nevertheless my plan is to have a covering over it - the vinyl should slide fine.

    Not that I'm modding it to be safety equipment It just needs to have that visual aspect.

  2. #52
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    I finished cutting and carving, and dowsed it with spray epoxy on the theory that after it soaks in and dries then the vinyl adhesive will have something to hold onto. We'll see. I started in on sanding it down to make the strips thinner and taking some off the top (it's 2 inches of foam in places) but that got old real fast.

    Not much to see but here it is. Phone flash does not do well in the dark, sorry.

    helmet_mod.jpg

  3. #53
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    It turned out pretty crappy after I realized that I didn't have enough CF vinyl to wrap it and just laid it over the top and cut. So lots of wrinkles. It feels good though and I'll see if it's cooler.

    Anyway: helmet.jpg I have more on order, and more old helmets to destroy ...

  4. #54
    Senior Member Medic Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Are you saying you'd like it to be comfier than all the current offerings? I don't blame you. If you find something, I think many of us would be grateful to hear about it.

    apparently, there is a big trade off in bike helmets between protection from a huge injury and protection from something smaller such as a concussion. In other words, they don't (yet) know how to make a helmet that protects in boy ways. Because of the political environment, all development is going towards the huge injury and not improving at all for concussions. Not good!
    I'm not so sure that is true. Isn't the MIPS development particularly aimed at preventing concussions?

    Sorry OP, I don't have any suggestions for just what you are looking for. Maybe equestrians have something in the vein you are seeking?
    Everyone hates your lights. Throw them away & buy something civilized.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Medic Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I've about reached the same conclusion that you have to mod one rather than buy one. Technical detail, I'm reluctant to use duct tape on any part of it, because that stuff eventually gets sticky in a helmet. Annoying. I don't know but I'm hoping that the adhesive vinyl I have won't be so bad.

    Ponytail pouch, that's an interesting idea. I also need to remember to leave room to mount my mp3 player and ear buds.
    Was there not enough chum in the water?
    Everyone hates your lights. Throw them away & buy something civilized.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    The intention is to satisfy the nannies of the world at large.
    Having recently landed in the emergency room, and given the number of times I was asked, "Were you wearing a helmet?" (even though it wasn't particularly relevant to anything they were doing at the time), or heard someone say to someone else "Yeah, he was wearing a helmet," I got the distinct impression that they would have taken me less seriously, or treated me less seriously, if I had not been wearing one. Friends have also asked, and I bet I would have gotten a scolding or two, or at least censorious looks. I would have been branded "irresponsible cyclist," no matter the actual circumstances of the accident, so I get the impulse to maintain appearances due to social pressure.

    As an aside, I discovered a small crack inside my helmet. I don't think I hit my head (more like my face). The crack may be unrelated, or who knows, maybe the helmet did its job.
    Last edited by wilfried; 07-24-14 at 10:52 AM.

  7. #57
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilfried View Post
    Having recently landed in the emergency room, and given the number of times I was asked, "Were you wearing a helmet?" (even though it wasn't particularly relevant to anything they were doing at the time), or heard someone say to someone else "Yeah, he was wearing a helmet," I got the distinct impression that they would have taken me less seriously, or treated me less seriously, if I had not been wearing one. Friends have also asked, and I bet I would have gotten a scolding or two, or at least censorious looks. I would have been branded "irresponsible cyclist," no matter the actual circumstances of the accident, so I get the impulse to maintain appearances due to social pressure.

    As an aside, I discovered a small crack inside my helmet. I don't think I hit my head (more like my face). They crack may be unrelated, or who knows, the maybe the helmet did its job.
    That is a strong concern of mine. If you do have a more serious accident I don't want it written in a police report or news reports "cyclist was not wearing a helmet", because you know they will.

    The modded helmet was a vast improvement on the commute this morning. Really good air flow, almost half the weight. In spite of the ugly features I didn't see anyone's eyes drawn to it and I was watching for it. So I'm going to mod another, trimming down all of the thicknesses this time.

  8. #58
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic Zero View Post
    ...

    Sorry OP, I don't have any suggestions for just what you are looking for. Maybe equestrians have something in the vein you are seeking?
    I looked into that. Some of them do look vaguely cyclist but evidently they are hard-hat style, blocking more air flow than our helmets even. I'm guessing heavier also. So they match up on a couple of criteria but fail on a couple.

  9. #59
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Why bother?
    It is Mission Impossible. Their quest for nannying can never be satisfied.
    +1
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  10. #60
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    Surely there are enough soup kitchens or homeless shelters that need volunteers that uber bored middle class Americans don't need to impact their longevity, however minimally, by performing modifications on perfectly good bike helmets? WTF? I am, as I said, old enough to have ridden more years before bike helmets were invented than since. The first examples were reputed to be very hot, heavy and uncomfortable. I haven't heard that this has been a significant issue in decades. That's right. Decades. They got to something people could wear in reasonable comfort by at least 1990. Even the hockey style helmets a la Bell have figured out a way to get air movement through the shell and/or sweat absorbent padding inside the shell. The main takeaway being that some discomfort, as long as it does not rise to the level of a distraction, is preferable to being unprotected. I doubt that there is much excess capacity in the average helmet to allow for any reduction of the crushable impact absorption. So.... again. Why bother wear a helmet at all? I know of no jurisdiction where it is illegal not to wear a helmet and if one is so unlucky as to incur a head injury while riding without a helmet, I know of no medical facility that would refuse treatment. They save gangbangers with life threatening bullet wounds, they will do their level best to pull a cyclist through the worst despite their obvious cavalier attitude towards personal responsibility. This thread is one of the more absurd in recent days.

  11. #61
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    Surely there are enough soup kitchens or homeless shelters that need volunteers that uber bored middle class Americans don't need to impact their longevity, however minimally, by performing modifications on perfectly good bike helmets? ...
    LOL I've got to hand it to you for the amusing twist. Seriously.

    Some people just like to make things better. Some don't see the point. It's all good.

    Oh, the helmet was trashed by anyone's standards ... I've kept it for an "emergency" helmet just in case I absolutely needed one for a ride and something happened to my new one. One should always be prepared ...
    Last edited by wphamilton; 07-24-14 at 10:54 AM.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    I know of no medical facility that would refuse treatment.
    The point of the helmet is to not need treatment, or at least to remain alive.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    The point of the helmet is to not need treatment, or at least to remain alive.
    I do get that, and you obviously get that... ...

  14. #64
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    .... So.... again. Why bother wear a helmet at all? I know of no jurisdiction where it is illegal not to wear a helmet and if one is so unlucky as to incur a head injury while riding without a helmet, I know of no medical facility that would refuse treatment....
    We already went into why wear one ... medical facility treatment is not a primary factor, although as one respondent mentioned he felt that treatment might have suffered had he not been wearing one. Safety factors are secondary in this particular scenario, and it should follow that response by trauma specialists is also a secondary factor. That's probably a good topic for the helmet thread.

    You obviously have a strong conviction but not everyone agrees, and for them those concerns aren't so relevant. This is a case in point. The safety factors, if deemed less relevant, means that the hat is worn for other reasons. We're trying to discuss criteria other than safety.

    City Greenways require helmets, military bases, most groups and organized events, sometimes corporate parking lots and campuses ...
    Last edited by wphamilton; 07-24-14 at 12:43 PM.

  15. #65
    Big, Fat, Texan WalksOn2Wheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Same reason that we have loose scalp, there's some give there instead of yanking our head around. I'm more than a little skeptical about the plastic over styrofoam performing that way though, since we still have our scalp inside after all, and the harness has some give in it as well. Nevertheless my plan is to have a covering over it - the vinyl should slide fine.

    Not that I'm modding it to be safety equipment It just needs to have that visual aspect.
    Note: compare the coefficient of friction for plastic vs. the human scalp.

    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Some people just like to make things better. Some don't see the point. It's all good.
    This is insane. You've taken a safety device and made it much less safe and this somehow qualifies as "better?" This is similar to me taking a car and removing all the doors and the back and front windows to save weight and claiming it's "better" regardless of the aerodynamic and safety compromises. I know safety is not your goal here, and your actual goal remains elusive, other than the objective of wasting your own time, but the word better has no place in the description of what you've created.

    Seriously, if you don't like helmets (or for some reason don't want to spend good money on helmets that do exactly what you want and already exist and are actually safe and require zero modification), then just don't wear a freaking helmet. This is not a hard concept. You don't have anything to prove to anybody.

  16. #66
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
    Note: compare the coefficient of friction for plastic vs. the human scalp.
    That's not where my skepticism arises, but that's another topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
    This is insane. You've taken a safety device and made it much less safe and this somehow qualifies as "better?"
    I'm making it into a better hat. Maybe a better safety device, maybe not, but that's not the objective or claim.

    It is, so far, much cooler and more comfortably fitting. Lighter. Less bulky and cumbersome. And still recognizable as cycling equipment. The next version will improve on these benefits and also hopefully look presentable. According to the parameters I laid out in the initial post, it's better than before.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalksOn2Wheels View Post
    Seriously, if you don't like helmets (or for some reason don't want to spend good money on helmets that do exactly what you want and already exist and are actually safe and require zero modification), then just don't wear a freaking helmet. This is not a hard concept. You don't have anything to prove to anybody.
    That's fine with me if you choose that course of action. I prefer a different direction, for reasons we don't really need to rehash.

  17. #67
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    wphamilton, you have long hair, maybe just figure out how to hairspray it into the form of a helmet?

  18. #68
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    wphamilton, you have long hair, maybe just figure out how to hairspray it into the form of a helmet?
    Not nearly enough hair

    I think we're circling the drain here (not meaning you RubeRad), so I think I'll update the thread when I've modded my second helmet. My fake CF vinyl will take a minimum of 3 weeks to get here, cheapskate that I am ordering it from China, so it may be awhile.

    To summarize, no one has found an off the shelf cyclist-looking hat that is airy and compact, light, and less goofy looking than the standard Bell, Giro etc. I am cautiously optimistic with the modded helmet, which I think can be easily improved still more.
    Last edited by wphamilton; 07-24-14 at 01:07 PM.

  19. #69
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Wear a Hat , throw the risk dice, a helmet is not compulsory in the US, for Adults .


    Cheaper helmets are less well ventilated than expensive ones .. the extra design in adding mesh and other substructures

    with in the EPS, lets it be as impact test passing as the basic helmets, but they want returns on those investments.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 07-24-14 at 01:07 PM.

  20. #70
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    Just saying, o.p. there is a term for what you are doing. You've gotten away with it this long because, up until now, you've managed to present like a rational person and stay under the radar of outrageous behavior. What's wrong? Rough patch? Don't take it out on the forum. Maybe its a character flaw but I can't abide pointlessness. You've taken pointless to a new level and I'm wondering seriously if its to a thread lockable level. This thread becomes less and less relevant to Commuting with every post. I'm certainly no stickler for strict adherence to TOS but this is way beyond the pale.

  21. #71
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    Just saying, o.p. there is a term for what you are doing. You've gotten away with it this long because, up until now, you've managed to present like a rational person and stay under the radar of outrageous behavior. What's wrong? Rough patch? Don't take it out on the forum. Maybe its a character flaw but I can't abide pointlessness. You've taken pointless to a new level and I'm wondering seriously if its to a thread lockable level. This thread becomes less and less relevant to Commuting with every post. I'm certainly no stickler for strict adherence to TOS but this is way beyond the pale.

    Now I'd rather you not be rude Leisesturm, but I'll decline to take it personally I think that cycling equipment is on target for Commuting, even if some disapprove of the particular equipment. I have a completely different point of view than do you, a considered and rational one, and this project is a logical outgrowth of that perspective.

    If you object to the topic you can simply avoid the thread, no?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Now I'd rather you not be rude Leisesturm, but I'll decline to take it personally I think that cycling equipment is on target for Commuting, even if some disapprove of the particular equipment. I have a completely different point of view than do you, a considered and rational one, and this project is a logical outgrowth of that perspective.

    If you object to the topic you can simply avoid the thread, no?
    Rude? Moi? Au contraire, I just, as I said before, abhor pointlessness, obtuseness and superiority. As you can see, I am not the only one getting fed up and using stronger language. You are correct, most people do not find modern helmets heavy, hot and/or 'goofy'. That you do is very individual. And, no, I cannot avoid this thread. I've tried. I can't do it. I adnit it. I'm weak. I just can't stop coming back to see how much further into the Twilight Zone it is careening. Help me. Stop this pointless button pushing. You have the power. You can end this.

  23. #73
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    Rude? Moi? Au contraire, I just, as I said before, abhor pointlessness, obtuseness and superiority. As you can see, I am not the only one getting fed up and using stronger language. You are correct, most people do not find modern helmets heavy, hot and/or 'goofy'. That you do is very individual. .
    Those individuals may reasonably find it pointless. There are others, who are not those individuals, who may find themselves wanting a topper like mine. The cooling breeze flowing through your hair. Or scalp as the case may be. No sweat dripping down your forehead or wetting the long ponytail, so light that you don't even know it's there, and looking like a sliced mushroom instead of a mushroom entire. I'll bet there's lots of people like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    And, no, I cannot avoid this thread. I've tried. I can't do it. I adnit it. I'm weak. I just can't stop coming back to see how much further into the Twilight Zone it is careening. Help me. Stop this pointless button pushing. You have the power. You can end this.
    Impossible. Even if this thread lies dormant for weeks until I've finished Mod 0.8 (going backwards since each revision should be less material) you are trapped. The only hope is to convince yourself that it's not really a helmet.

  24. #74
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    While I am (obviously) not so averse to pointlessness, I do kind of agree that this may not belong in the commuting forum, which is consistently concerned with improving safety, not bypassing safety. (It would fit great in Foo though...)

    There is a traditional method for obtaining a lighter, better-ventilated helmet, which is to pay a lot of money for a lighter, better-ventilated helmet, without compromising safety. I haven't seen participants in this thread resonate with your desire for light/air with no concern for reduced safety.

    That said, leisesturm, you can always unsubscribe to this thread. I see no evidence of copycats; just a bunch of curious gawkers who are tuned in on the off chance of seeing a train wreck.

  25. #75
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Where does the OP find the nannys that he needs to fool or impress with the appearance of wearing a helmet? If it is an organized ride, do you really want to ride with such people? If it is a charity ride, find another charity to support that doesn't include nanny requirements for contributing.

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