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  1. #26
    DNP
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Is it better than nothing? If you used it to see, then yes. If you used it to be seen, I'm not convinced. What message do you think got across to the other road users?
    Just to be seen. Message? This is some manipulative annoying language. I don't really have any concern other than, oh look, there is something I should now pay attention too. I have no idea why you think a taillight becomes less visible to the human eye when viewed from the front of the bike. It's clear you think I'm being stupid; I disagree. Yippee. I'll continue to run whatever front illumination I can get my hands on the 1 or 2 times/year my front light dies on me.
    Last edited by DNP; 07-23-14 at 02:29 PM.

  2. #27
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I wouldn't use the word "stupid," but I do contest that confusion may result from a front-facing tail light. Confusion isn't good for you or the other person. I honestly don't know if you're safer with a front-facing tail light or nothing, if those are your only choices. I'm open to debate. Debate, to me, doesn't involve anyone calling anyone else stupid.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  3. #28
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg M View Post
    I believe it is ," you can't fix stupid". Right up there with, "the dumb die".
    We all die, and I don't believe Darwin's Law really operates to improve the intelligence of the population.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  4. #29
    Senior Member ascherer's Avatar
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    Personally I think it's an attempt to enhance being seen. Since it flies in the face of standards, it might just work. But I'm more inclined to believe that working with standards related to traffic rules makes us safer, not the other way round.

    But then again:


  5. #30
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    I recently use the the first half of that on a twentysomething and was visibly surprised when he finished the lyric. He laughed and said 'I try to keep up with old guys when I can.'

  6. #31
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    The flashing Red and Blue on the front, are the Police..

  7. #32
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I had a pair of spoke lights that were motion activated but only in the dark. No switches. Pretty cool. But they flashed alternately in red and blue. Once, on a quiet suburban street, there was only one other road user, driving a car, coming in the oncoming direction. He pulled over. Oops. I don't use them any more.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  8. #33
    Senior Member ascherer's Avatar
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    I think that's the point, Tom. As drivers, we have conditioned responses, messing with those can have consequences ranging from comical to dangerous. I for one am in favor of leveraging those responses in a positive way for the benefit of my safety.

    Sidebar: anyone remember the french lights that strapped to the outside of your leg? Red light behind and yellow front? I can't remember the book that advocated using them, because: "who would want to hit a red-eyed creature that jumps up and down in the road at night?"

  9. #34
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I remember that light, made my Wonder in France. I used it occasionally. I think there's an important distinction between that and a front-facing tail light. I believe the leg light would make a motorist think, "Hmm, I wonder what that is. I better take a close and cautious look. Oh, it's someone on a bike." That, in turn, might lead to gentle and considerate overtaking.

    A front facing tail light, I imagine, elicits, "Huh?" without any useful response.

    I'm just guessing, of course.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  10. #35
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascherer View Post
    lights that strapped to the outside of your leg? Red light behind and yellow front?
    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I believe the leg light would make a motorist think, "Hmm, I wonder what that is. I better take a close and cautious look. Oh, it's someone on a bike." That, in turn, might lead to gentle and considerate overtaking.
    If you don't have pedal reflectors (or even if you do), the up-down motion, side-by-side is pretty indicative of a cyclist and allow drivers paying attention to ID you as such. Same thing with the white reflectors which come stock on wheels of new bikes -- allows other road users to more easily ID you as a cyclist.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  11. #36
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    A front facing taillight may also illicit a response which causes the person to drift towards it. People always follow taillights, so why not follow this one.

    I have heard of drunks rear ending police cars with red lights thinking they were in the drive lane and not realizing they were parked with someone pulled over.

  12. #37
    Senior Member puckett129's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    We all die, and I don't believe Darwin's Law really operates to improve the intelligence of the population.
    The Marching Morons: C M Kornbluth: 9780345607607: Amazon.com: Books

    Natural selection cannot fight the problem of population. It's a number game.

  13. #38
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    You may get a ticket for operating red lights facing forward. If you've noticed, backup lights are white and turn off when motor vehicle is put into park or drive. Amber lights are allowed i any direction.

    - Andy
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  14. #39
    Senior Member mrodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TransitBiker View Post
    You may get a ticket for operating red lights facing forward. If you've noticed, backup lights are white and turn off when motor vehicle is put into park or drive. Amber lights are allowed i any direction.

    - Andy
    What is this park and drive you speak of? I only have 1-5 and R....
    Ride no faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!

  15. #40
    Senior Member Shahmatt's Avatar
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    I mount a red light facing backward but placed in front of me. I keep it on solid mode and it illuminates me. I think it helps.

    I also have a proper rear light set to blinky mode in the usual position.

  16. #41
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    I mount a red light facing backward but placed in front of me. I keep it on solid mode and it illuminates me. I think it helps.

    I also have a proper rear light set to blinky mode in the usual position.
    So the tail light is pointed at your face? I suppose if the light in your eyes doesn't bother you, it's not a bad idea. You could also put a forward facing white light at the back of your bike to illuminate your body. I've been wondering if this is worth my while.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  17. #42
    Senior Member Shahmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    So the tail light is pointed at your face? I suppose if the light in your eyes doesn't bother you, it's not a bad idea. You could also put a forward facing white light at the back of your bike to illuminate your body. I've been wondering if this is worth my while.
    I ride a recumbent and an upright folding bike so the light hits my torso mainly. I keep the power low so that it's less bothersome.

    I read that side-on hits are more common than being rear ended. This is to reduce that risk. From my observations I think it works.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    I ride a recumbent and an upright folding bike so the light hits my torso mainly. I keep the power low so that it's less bothersome.

    I read that side-on hits are more common than being rear ended. This is to reduce that risk. From my observations I think it works.
    You sound like a cautious guy. Cautious people get hit less. That's the point of caution.

  19. #44
    Senior Member TransitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrodgers View Post
    What is this park and drive you speak of? I only have 1-5 and R....
    Park = no gear engaged, drive = a forward gear is engaged.

    - Andy
    I can't wait for the next pint of good chocolate milk after a long ride.

  20. #45
    Senior Member Shahmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyven View Post
    You sound like a cautious guy. Cautious people get hit less. That's the point of caution.
    Ha! True enuf. Just dun wanna die on the road is all. Lousy way to go - being flattened by the latest Lamborghini. Worse that SG roads consider cycling as more of a recreational fancy as opposed to serious transportation.

  21. #46
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    Ha! True enuf. Just dun wanna die on the road is all. Lousy way to go - being flattened by the latest Lamborghini. Worse that SG roads consider cycling as more of a recreational fancy as opposed to serious transportation.
    Thread drift: Interesting that you say that. Most of eastern Asia isn't like that, is it? What accounts for the difference?
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  22. #47
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    rebuilt 38 limo, Astoria Clown's car was mounted on a van frame backwards , so red taillights went on the grille .

    http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...wakens_in.html

  23. #48
    Senior Member Shahmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Thread drift: Interesting that you say that. Most of eastern Asia isn't like that, is it? What accounts for the difference?
    Apologies. Did not mean to thread drift. Safety in cycling gets me emotional.

    I am not native to East Asia. But indeed, from what I see, other places in the region are not so bad. In SG (and Malaysia also to some extent) the government takes a keen interest in building roads as wide and as fast as possible. To avoid the gridlock that is characteristic of say, Thailand's Bangkok. The unintended consequence of course is that wide, fast roads just encourages more vehicle ownership, which in turn encourages more wide and fast roads. Private property is not really a concept that is practiced here, so that natural resistance (IMO) to building more road infrastructure is less that perhaps some other countries.

    Cycling appears to be an activity much practiced by the lower middle class and poor. It is also much used by simple community shops and businesses. But when the government gets it into their head to widen and build they appear to do so blindly without much respect to how things were done. There is little give and take - but sure they'll compensate fairly nevertheless. But they follow set standards leading to a wonderfully smooth and fast drive. So your average cyclist now travels on pedestrian sidewalks.

    Sure the government has been trying to build a cycling lane network, but these are too few and far between to be practical - and they are more for recreation than anything else anyway. I don't really like bicycle lanes because the usual defense by errant drivers will be "Well he should've been in his lane". No I'd much rather the roads be clearly defined as to be shared by motorists and cyclists alike. Also cyclists are not protected well by law. I have sent numerous videos of poor driving to the police but they take no action at all.

    So I'm hoping for slower roads, better signage making explicit the presence of cyclists, and better laws protecting cyclists.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Last edited by Shahmatt; 08-01-14 at 11:06 AM.

  24. #49
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    Since bikes have to follow state law, a red light on the front would be subject to summons. White to amber lights in front, Amber to red in the rear.
    “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former."
    ― Albert Einstein

  25. #50
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mvcrash View Post
    Since bikes have to follow state law, a red light on the front would be subject to summons. White to amber lights in front, Amber to red in the rear.
    This misses the point of my question. Sure, one might get a citation, but most don't get them. My question is what the user thinks is to be gained from it, citation or none.

    NYC was the wild, wild east of traffic enforcement, especially for bicycles, until very recently. Now cyclists are getting tickets for running red lights and other infractions. Some are even being cited for not having bells or lights.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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