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Old 07-26-14, 06:27 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
Then again, you, me, and everybody else in this thread were not there to see just how the bikes were tangled together.....
Is this the pot calling the kettle black?

Arguments based on "you weren't there" are meaningless coming from someone who wasn't there either.

I had absolutely no issue with cutting the cable, and stated so "the was 100% within his rights..." But the argument that the Op couldn't have separated the bikes with some damage is very weak. I've handled thousands of bikes loaded tightly onto trucks, buses, trains and planes which settled in transit, and have never found them tyo be come so entangled that they couldn't be separated without damage.

The OP's own words "which was not gentle...." Imply that he was not overly concerned about collateral damage to the offending bike. He had mentioned that the offending bikes pedals were trough his won spokes. I'll venture (yes, this is pure speculation) that the OP was careful and managed to rotate the pedals as needed to pull them back out of his own wheel without damage, so I strongly suspect that any care and gentleness was one sided.

I understand the OP's annoyance, but I'm less sympathetic than I might otherwise be based on his town, and apparent self-righteousness.
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Old 07-26-14, 07:19 PM   #52
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Is this the pot calling the kettle black?

Arguments based on "you weren't there" are meaningless coming from someone who wasn't there either.

I had absolutely no issue with cutting the cable, and stated so "the was 100% within his rights..." But the argument that the Op couldn't have separated the bikes with some damage is very weak. I've handled thousands of bikes loaded tightly onto trucks, buses, trains and planes which settled in transit, and have never found them tyo be come so entangled that they couldn't be separated without damage.

The OP's own words "which was not gentle...." Imply that he was not overly concerned about collateral damage to the offending bike. He had mentioned that the offending bikes pedals were trough his won spokes. I'll venture (yes, this is pure speculation) that the OP was careful and managed to rotate the pedals as needed to pull them back out of his own wheel without damage, so I strongly suspect that any care and gentleness was one sided.

I understand the OP's annoyance, but I'm less sympathetic than I might otherwise be based on his town, and apparent self-righteousness.
Uh... THAT's my point. You and I could argue endlessly about what the OP could or could not have done. Your personal and anecdotal experiences have no more weight than mine or anybody else's: the OP was there, so I'll take his word for it. This forum is for discussion, not a cross examination.

As for your arguments about how gentle he was or was not... you use the words "imply" and "pure speculation" in your own argument. For all we know... the OP could have been referring to actions like not having "kid gloves" in handling the offending bike, or maybe he scratched the bike because the lock/cable was hard to cut and there was little room to manipulate the tools... whatever. Again, I don't know, so I'll take the OP's word that he didn't maim/vandalize the other bike. It seems that a lot of criticisms directed toward the OP involve a lot of second guessing on the OP's assessment, actions, and moral judgment. I'm not even sure how from his original post you surmise he was self-righteous when it was his bike and him in the unasked for predicament: calling the kettle black, eh?

Look FBinNY... I don't want to end up in an extended argument with you. The OP had a bike locked and mashed against his, he did what he thought he had to do, and then came to this forum for some feedback. Looks like he got that and a whole heap more. The bottom line is is that frankly, I - and I daresay others - don't think he deserved some of the rather negative comments.
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Old 07-26-14, 08:52 PM   #53
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I bet if I didn't include what type of bike it was everybody would be asking me what type of bike it was. It's just a detail. I called it a beater, not a piece of s***.

Is this thread full of psychologists? I'll re-write it: Well my bike got locked together with someone else's. It sucked. The end.
But you did add the smug references to the quality of the other bike. If other posters introduced this baloney by asking for equally irrelevant details they would be just as silly. If your OP was written with just the relevant detail like your rewrite, the replies may have also dealt with those details.

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I'll put it this way, it upsets me the way people are judging my words rather than the offenders actions or my actions more than anything else.
People responded to what you wrote, not what you were thinking about.

What a surprise huh?
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Old 07-26-14, 10:45 PM   #54
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EDIT: I don't mean to get anyone's goat here. I'll put it this way, it upsets me the way people are judging my words rather than the offenders actions or my actions more than anything else. The way I described the situation in my opinion was rather tame. To have every word picked apart and questioned, it's like I'm having my morality interrogated. If my ACTIONS are being judged, then fine, that's what the thread was about.
I've come to expect a certain amount of hairsplitting and curmudgeonry around here... some people have a lot of time on their hands.

Don't take it personally. It's all just part of the fun...
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Old 07-27-14, 03:04 AM   #55
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I had a few bikes mashed up next to mines. In one case, I could barely remove my bike cause the other one had their pedals between my spokes, and my handle bar tangled in their brake cables. Luckily they weren't locked up together, so I got mines free, and the other bike was left barely leaning on the post it was locked to.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:01 AM   #56
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I have to say that ever since moving to Portland, the sheer number of bikes that have to share one locking thing at a time can be pretty daunting. I say to myself, yikes, I hope I don't lock someone else's bike to mine, and I work as carefully as I can to make sure that does not happen. I wonder sometimes if someone one day won't be as careful and will lock my bike to theirs. I have thought about what I would do in both scenarios. Neither scenario ever involved the slightest damage to the other persons, or my, bike. The LOCKS involved, maybe, but never the bikes themselves. That was pure peeve on the o.p.'s part. Vengeance. Some of us are very comfortable with vengeance. The o.p.'s story begins with outrage. The very idea of some punk's worthless Walmart POS touching their benighted steed. Assumptions were made about the age, class, maybe even race, of the miscreant and this justified anger well beyond the inconvenience of being unwillingly linked to someone else's timetable. Well since you asked o.p., if I had, toolswise, to work with what you obviously did, I would have gotten my bike free without any damage at all to the other bike, as I would expect them to have freed their bike without any damage to mine. I would have left my lock on their bike with contact information so they could get in touch and free it. I really would have done that. You asked.

H
Totally agree.

Malice isn't a justifiable response to ignorance.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:47 AM   #57
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The thing that would piss me off most is being stranded with no way to get home after a hard day's work--I'm exhausted, I'm hungry, I've made it most of the way home (bus) and now some scumbag has left me stranded, with no clue when he might appear and set my bike free. Ten minutes? Ten hours? Ten days? Come on, that's really over the top! What exactly am I supposed to do? I'm glad I wasn't the OP, because I would have probably done something I'd later regret.
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Old 07-27-14, 09:38 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Of course, we are all such tough guys on the internet. What if that didn't free your bike. Now you've vandalized their bike and yours is still immobilized. You see where anger gets you? That's why there are so many senseless acts of real heartbreaking proportions. A small thing like this goes unresponded to. And another. Did you know that in no other country on earth are psychopaths found? True. An honest to god borderline personality is totally an American phenomenon. Its because their is so little accountability, yet so much justification for over the top retribution. It starts in child-hood and is nurtured throughout adolescence. You may never be so stupid as to lock your bike to someone elses but you may one day be careless enough to park your SUV in a way that prevents someone else from getting out of a parking spot. Maybe they stop at smashing your passenger side mirror when enacting their revenge. Maybe not. I saw a car where they didn't... it wasn't pretty. FWIW.

H (nope, it wasn't mine. car free)
Uh,
Pyschopathy is found in all countries and even in many species...

And is profoundly different then "borderline"...
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Old 07-27-14, 09:51 AM   #59
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Totally agree.

Malice isn't a justifiable response to ignorance.
And as documented in this thread this also a common tactic for bike thieves, including the use of BSO's as they are used as judas's goats.

The person intentionally locked the OP's bike with his own lock. That is what it boils down to.
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Old 07-27-14, 09:54 AM   #60
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The thing that would piss me off most is being stranded with no way to get home after a hard day's work--I'm exhausted, I'm hungry, I've made it most of the way home (bus) and now some scumbag has left me stranded, with no clue when he might appear and set my bike free. Ten minutes? Ten hours? Ten days? Come on, that's really over the top! What exactly am I supposed to do? I'm glad I wasn't the OP, because I would have probably done something I'd later regret.
Cutting the frame of the offending bike is well within you're rights to free your property. If they used ubolts instead I would not hesitate to cut the bike of the lock, not the lock off the bike.

You found a way to do it less destructively.
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Old 07-27-14, 10:32 AM   #61
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When arriving to a Meeting after a friend, I do the Hostage taking .. since I'm going to the same meeting (& they never use a Lock)
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Old 07-27-14, 04:53 PM   #62
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Did you know that in no other country on earth are psychopaths found? True. An honest to god borderline personality is totally an American phenomenon.
That's just crap. The Inquisition happened long before the Europeans even came to America. What about the Tutsi and Hutu massacres in Africa? Plus Al-Qaeda. We do not have a monopoly on psychopathy.

Some recommended reading for you:
http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Peltons...+places&dpPl=1
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Old 07-27-14, 05:25 PM   #63
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The person who locked his bike to another's to make it difficult if not impossible for the OP to use his property is self centered, inconsiderate, immature and a punk no matter how old he is. He deserves no consideration or defense of his action. It is about personal responsibility. I am on your side, OP.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:18 PM   #64
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The person who locked his bike to another's to make it difficult if not impossible for the OP to use his property is self centered, inconsiderate, immature and a punk no matter how old he is. He deserves no consideration or defense of his action. It is about personal responsibility. I am on your side, OP.
Except if in a crowd of bikes the person made a mistake in routing his lock. Right wrong or otherwise, even the rude deserve some consideration. I guess folks no longer believe in the axiom "two wrongs don't make a right".

BTW- I can't blame the OP for what he did, because as someone pointed out, I (nor anyone else here) was there at the time. OTOH- I suspect the OP got the amount of flak he did because of the tone of his post. Sometimes it's not the exact words used, but how those were used that convey meaning. Writing is as much about what readers infer as what is intended, and I wasn't alone in inferring that the OP was incensed and acted out based on that, treating the "beater" with the respect he felt it deserved, namely very little.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:33 PM   #65
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It is certainly possible that he made a human error. There are mistakes of the mind and mistakes of the heart. If it was a mistake of the heart I have no sympathy except to say that for me I doubt if I would have deliberately damaged his bike. It is never advisable to reduce your own standards of conduct to that of the lowest common denominator in the situation.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:41 PM   #66
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On the theft thing: How would that even work? Would I be expected to unlock my bike, and leave it? Who would do that? Why?

I probably would've called the non-emergency FD/PD line, I wouldn't be surprised if the FD would cut me free.

I can see this happening at the downtown library, the bike rack is an 'artistic' impractical monstrosity with bikes often tangled. I expect security has lock cutting stuff.

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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Of course, we are all such tough guys on the internet. What if that didn't free your bike. Now you've vandalized their bike and yours is still immobilized. You see where anger gets you? That's why there are so many senseless acts of real heartbreaking proportions. A small thing like this goes unresponded to. And another. Did you know that in no other country on earth are psychopaths found? True. An honest to god borderline personality is totally an American phenomenon. Its because their is so little accountability, yet so much justification for over the top retribution. It starts in child-hood and is nurtured throughout adolescence. You may never be so stupid as to lock your bike to someone elses but you may one day be careless enough to park your SUV in a way that prevents someone else from getting out of a parking spot. Maybe they stop at smashing your passenger side mirror when enacting their revenge. Maybe not. I saw a car where they didn't... it wasn't pretty. FWIW.

H (nope, it wasn't mine. car free)
I can't tell if you're trolling, confused or completely unaware of history and current events.

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So back when I was driving to the train to get to work, at some point someone blocked my car in and luckily I only had to wait an hour at the end of the day for them to show up and move so I could leave. When I pointed out that their life must be more important than mine cause they had to inconvenience me and I needed to have someone else pick my daughter up because I was stuck there, I was told they had no where else to park. Really ?!!!! As she drove away I could see the bumper sticker on her car that said," keep christ in christmas". Really?!!!! Some people have no consideration of others.
I would've wandered around until I found the sign for the tow company that serves that parking lot, and had them towed.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:50 PM   #67
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There IS such a thing as "teaching a lesson". Apparently the offender here needs to learn something. If he does not suffer in some way as the result of his action here, he will continue to do it to others. Who knows, the next guy he does it to may beat the hell out of him or kill him. (Plenty of meth-heads around here riding stolen bikes) Perceived in that light, a little damage to his bike at this point may be a very humane gesture.

Last edited by ClarkinHawaii; 07-27-14 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:54 PM   #68
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On the theft thing: How would that even work? Would I be expected to unlock my bike, and leave it? Who would do that? Why?
I suspect a majority of bike owners would leave their bike overnight expecting to retrieve it the next day - assuming the other bike would then be gone. This would be beneficial for a thief even if the bike remains locked. The thief could come back later at night, when less people are around, to use their tools. Essentially, the thief is holding the target bike hostage until it's more convenient to steal it.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:56 PM   #69
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There IS such a thing as "teaching a lesson". Apparently the offender here needs to learn something. If he does not suffer in some way as the result of his action here, he will continue to do it to others. Who knows, the next guy he does it to may beat the hell out of him or kill him. (Plenty of meth-heads around here riding stolen bikes) Perceived in that light, a little damage to his bike at this point may be a very humane gesture.
Conversely, getting caught by a meth-head while you're in the process of 'teaching them a lesson' could be a very traumatic experience for you.

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I suspect a majority of bike owners would leave their bike overnight expecting to retrieve it the next day - assuming the other bike would then be gone. This would be beneficial for a thief even if the bike remains locked. The thief could come back later at night, when less people are around, to use their tools. Essentially, the thief is holding the target bike hostage until it's more convenient to steal it.
Ah, okay.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:58 PM   #70
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On the theft thing: How would that even work? Would I be expected to unlock my bike, and leave it? Who would do that? Why?

....
The "theft by lock method" is fairly straightforward. The thief doesn't expect anything of you, except not being able to do anything about it at the time. That means the thief can come back that night, properly equipped to break your lock and steel your bike when there's less likely to be witnesses or interruption.
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Old 07-27-14, 07:01 PM   #71
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[QUOTE=Sullalto;16980060]Conversely, getting caught by a meth-head while you're in the process of 'teaching them a lesson' could be a very traumatic experience for you.

Very true. Isn't life grand!
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Old 07-27-14, 07:27 PM   #72
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I can't believe I read through this whole thread.
The OP was inconvenienced by someone else (for whatever reason) and did what he had to do.
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Old 07-27-14, 07:38 PM   #73
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I can't believe I read through this whole thread.
The OP was inconvenienced by someone else (for whatever reason) and did what he had to do.
It's best to read threads like this a little at a time to reduce risk of long-term side effects.
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Old 07-27-14, 08:58 PM   #74
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perhaps the best solution would have been to cut his lock and free your bike and then lock his bike with your lock. The price of the lock would be worth it and even a moron would get the message (unless of course he really was a bike thief). If you really want to make him understand leave a note with the lock combo and explain why you did it. That seems the high road and still transmits the message.
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Old 07-27-14, 09:13 PM   #75
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Like the bikes in the OP's post this thread is a tangle of nonsense and should probably be locked down.
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