Dave Cutter

I wouldn't think a video of your death would be particularly comforting to your wife. You must be thinking of some sort of legally enforced pay-day because of the evidence the camera collects. Although I share your concerns for the well being of loved ones.... this "pay-day by camera"... just feeds the "cyclists with cameras are scammers" impression.

The streets and roads are filled with risks and dangers. Accidents will happen! But if you pay attention, wear a helmet, and stay sober... your risks of a fatal accident aren't measurably different than driving a car (there are valid arguments that bicycles may be safer). Most likely... a car bicycle collision will cause serious ouchies. Sometimes the ouchies last for many years (or even a lifetime) and can be very disabling. I don't know how a camera could protect you from that.

ItsJustMe

Well, I drive a minivan and have a dashcam. Does that count?

prathmann

Yes, figures I've seen on the risk of a fatality are fairly similar. But bicyclists have far more injury collisions and tend to be involved in a higher percentage of hit-and-run incidents. In injury (or fatal) accidents between cars the vehicles involved are frequently disabled or at least seriously damaged and therefore more easily found if the at-fault party flees the scene. But when a cyclist is hit in a glancing blow he might be seriously hurt but still leave little evidence on the car that hit him.

Our club had a group ride recently where one rider was hit by the mirror of a car that drifted to the right into the bike lane and didn't stop. We didn't catch the plate number and therefore the driver was never identified. Fortunately the rider has since recovered but the incident has increased interest in the group in having a video record of rides. A camera can't protect you from those serious "ouchies" but, as you say, they can be disabling and last a lifetime in which case a video record could make a big financial difference.

a1penguin

Not to defend driver.... But I avoid being out on the roads when the sun is setting and the shadows make it difficult for drivers to see anything. That pic looks like there is stiff sufficient sunlight. Did she at least use her blinker? I get angry when people don't use blinkers because I am then unable to react to their stupidity.

Dave Cutter

Yes... but I don't think so. And it's a small or even a tiny step from "could"... to how (can it be made to happen). Traffic patterns can be very predicable. Regular commuters often see many of the same motorists/cyclists they share the road with day after day. The possibilities to entrap an errant motorist with choreographed video and a well placed (and friendly) "wittiness" isn't a new idea.

For decades such motor-fraud accidents have plagued American streets. Mostly by transient groups or individuals. Faked accidents are far from new to our legal system and are regularly exposed. Being able to flee from prosecution is key when involved with such schemes. I'd be very concerned about attempting to "find reward" in a system already rife with fraud.

Grifters have always been with us... even if most people aren't aware of them.From the comments I've heard from outside of the cycling community... even the average motorist already suspects camera-cyclists as scammers. A sincere and honest cyclists with genuine video could find themselves requiring expensive legal representation/defense.... while also being injured. I just cannot see or even imagine a practical risk-reward potential for bicycle cameras.

That said.... I really enjoy real-life youtube-type videos while I ride my trainer.

Juha

Does it matter to you or family: a colleague fell or crashed on a bike, cracked his helmet and sustained injuries that despite long and painful PT resulted in permanent partial incapacity to work. Whenever we talked about it, the one thing he complained about was not knowing what the hell had happened. He was found on ground, bleeding, semi conscious, no recollection of anything that happened since he left home. It bothered him a lot, seeing how something changed his life entirely and not having any idea of what it was.

He was already a couple of years into retirement when the first small digital video camera ads started to appear. He sent me a link to one.

ill.clyde

probably not

ill.clyde

+1

likebike23

A camera would have been useful in apprehending the driver who hit a cyclist near my house and then fled the scene. The cyclist will be ok, but they don't have any description of the vehicle.

thrllskr

You have a sad state of mind. Is there a way to ignore people like you on here so that I don't have to waste my time reading your comments?

thrllskr

According to Dave Cutter the cyclist was doing it all to scam the driver and get money from the HOA, city, county, state and fed. government. +1 for cams. Had there been a cam there might be some justice.

mikeybikes

Settings -> Edit Ignore List

I know Dave is perfectly capable of defending his own posts, but I suspect the point he was trying to make went right over your head:

mikeybikes

I've never found the need to have a camera while commuting. The traffic on my handful of routes into work is very predictable and my rides have always been without incident. I have better things to do in life than to worry about the what-if's and hope I get one of the rare what-if's on camera.

rpecot

I've been thinking about getting a camera. My route into work is fairly mundane, but there is one stretch that makes me nervous some times. The thought of a monetary reward never entered my mind until I read this thread. I have insurance, I'm not worried about that. I would want justice, though, for some yahoo racing to beat a red light, just so they can shave one minute off their hour long commute.

metz1295

if she cut across lanes, then looks to me like she did not follow her left turn lane to it's end. like she intended to cut the corner of the intersection because there were no cars in the way on the side street. I see this all the time. then, when it's almost too late, she see a bike and throws her hand up as if to say, "I did it all wrong, but no you need to stop so you don't die and raise my insurance premium."

spivonious

I've been thinking of getting a camera simply so my wife will have some video record of the last moments of my life if some idiot driver takes me out, or I'm involved in a hit-and-run. Is it going to act as a deterrent? Of course not. But the police sure might like to see what actually happened instead of the usual "he came out of nowhere" response from the driver.

As far as the legal concerns being raised in this thread, recording others' actions on a public road is perfectly legal, just as one can walk down the sidewalk filming without asking permission.

Dave Cutter

Actually... my state of mind is darn happy! Unlike others I have no fear of interaction with other humans (traffic doesn't scare me so much).

No... I didn't post that... you didn't read that in my posts.

Walter S

+1. I think carrying a camera almost invites the situations you want to video. It's as though you're looking for trouble and when it happens, you'll prove who was at fault (if you're alive). For me carrying a camera is distraction from the really important goal of avoiding confrontation - not proving who's fault it was. It carries with it, the wrong attitude.

I'd rather be just a tiny bit safer, not distracted with my camera and proving fault and instead, focused 100% on avoiding accidents. Were I crippled, I wouldn't expect to be happy into my old age, thinking "at least I had my camera!"

Carson Dyle

Interesting... Sounds like a lot of people plan on getting hit by cars. Well, so long as you have something to post on YouTube, it will be worth it. What's a few pins and plates and months of rehab if you don't have something to show for it on social media?

Dave Cutter

I think some people clearly just use to forums as place to vent via pointless arguments. He knows full well... scammers exist. Fraud is a huge expense to every American. Or... maybe these are just kids or adult age children.

The cameras have some great uses! No doubt! I play videos made by them on my tablet while riding my trainer.

But playing cops and robbers in traffic... isn't a practical sport for grown adults. Of course this IS a bicycling forum. I guess a bit of childishness is to be expected.

Dave Cutter

So... where you live they have no stalking laws?

RPK79

Changed slightly, but still just as relevant.

mrodgers

It's not stalking. Look up Photographer's Rights. If you are in a public space, or in a place that you do not have an expectation of privacy, you can be video recorded.

Example of where you have expectation of privacy, bathroom, your home. Place where most think they have an expectation of privacy but actually do not, your personal property if in view of anyone. There's a public park next to your property? You do not have expectation of privacy. You don't have a privacy fence up between yourself and your neighbors? You don't have expectation of privacy. You do have a privacy fence but your neighbor's property is at a higher elevation than yours and the fence isn't high enough, you do not have expectation of privacy.

Leisesturm

I've been researching dash cams as I wasn't aware of them until their mention in this thread. Apparently the number one maker of them is a start-up by a former over the road truck driver and 70% of the dash cam market is active professional truck drivers. They have a lot at stake licensewise, and documenting what happens in the 90* that begins at 45* on the drivers side and over to the 45* on the passengers side that they are 100% responsible for, is a big deal. It is an offensive weapon in other words. Just saying, pedestrians are hit by cars every day and their assailants are found without any video taken. Doesn't it amaze you how someone can be hit by a hit and run driver at four o'clock in the morning and even though it may take days, the vehicle is eventually found, and then the driver shortly after that.

The hit and run driver is in trouble because they have fled a serious accident. The driver that does not flee is usually not in a great deal of trouble. A camera is not going to change that fact. Police are very adept at re-creating accidents after the fact. They will likely consider any victim video a distraction. Witness video is another matter entirely. One of the links I looked at specifically said that "some states have legal restriction on recording the actions of other without their consent, know the laws of your state before you run a camera". Unlike the driver who uses a camera to document what happens in front of their vehicle, cyclists quickly realized that a single camera was inadequate for recording threats that could come from any of 360 degrees of horizontal space. Some run two cameras. I don't know any that run four, but why not? Seems to me broadside threats are very represented in the injury and death statistics.

Had anything serious happened to the o.p. the video record would show the threat clearly visible from the forward quarter and would be considered as much as 50% or more responsible in any eventual judgement. The persecution complex mentality of camera adopters flies in the face of alternative transportation advocate. If it is that bad that you need to carry hundreds of dollars worth of "flight data recording gear" on a commute... ... drive. It's ok. I give you permission. Take mass transit, bum rides off family and friends. But for the love of all that is Holy, don't ride a bicycle in traffic. Sooner or later your fear will hurt you, or worse.

I don't think it is against TOS to observe that people with **** are often forced to use them because they confronted, rather than fled from potentially dangerous situations. I am certain that camera equipped riders pedal blithely into situations that myself and others grab handfuls of brake, when we wind up in similar juxtapositions of bike and hazard, and believe that the resulting docu-drama will play out in their legal and financial favor. Maybe, maybe not. And when you are talking about bicycles and injury and death... there are worse things than being dead. I can't think that being a C-5 quadriplegic is better than being deceased.

I know, I know, its upsetting to have something you hold sacred be treated so irreverently by others but... that's life. I think insurance companies are going to start offering discounts to drivers who run dash cams. At that point I don't see the need for cyclists to carry theirs anymore. Until that glorious day when we can look forward to the end of threads like this one... all I can do is point out the pointlessness.

H

Leisesturm

Dash cams: Should you use one in your car? - CBS News