LokiWolflord

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting and although I have found threads like this, I have yet to find sufficient information to make a good decision.

Two years ago, I started cycling again. I bought a 2012 Giant Escape 2 and got on the road. The Escape is an aluminum bike and is okay for the distance of my commute, that is to say, 30 miles round trip. When I first started riding it, the ride was pretty smooth, but, it seems aluminum doesn't age well and now it's not so smooth. I'm quickly becoming disenchanted with this particular bike and I'm looking to upgrade to something with drop bars, better brakes, and a more supple ride which (finally) brings me to my point.

Does a CX bike have any clear advantages over a road bike for commuting? I live in Southern California. Most of my riding is done on black top. The roads do not have much in the way of potholes, but tend to be pretty rough. If I end up going with a CX bike, I'm thinking of this Motobecane Fantom Team Titanium (https://tinyurl.com/43n7tcy) from Bikes Direct if it comes back in in my size. I might settle for the SRAM equipped version if the Ultegra equipped does not come back in stock.

That BD bike is the best bang for the buck in CX bikes. Name brands, unfortunately, seem to be a lot more expensive for a lot less bike.

My choices on road bikes are less clear. When I was 12 years old, I got a 1983 Schwinn Traveler 10-speed. I rode that thing thousands of miles. Steel, as I recall, has an awesome ride.

What do you all think for a comfortable, durable ride? Steel, CF, or Titanium? Steel does appeal to me quite a bit. I have never ridden Ti or CF, though. I'm willing to try the other materials.

I do not intend to start racing. The bike will be mostly for my commute and for long rides on the weekend. I'm talking centuries and maybe some light touring.

Thanks for any input.

bbbean 

The CX bike will have somewhat more relaxed geometry and allow wider tires. I'd think the tires would be the major factor for commuting and all weather use. If you're not going to race, consider a nice CX and two wheelsets - one with skinny tires for centuries and good pavement and one with 32s (or wider) for bad roads and bad weather.

bikemig 

Fatter tires rock. A racing bike frequently can't handle much over a 700 x 25c. A cross can easily handle a much fatter tire. If you're riding rough roads, that's a plus. A cross bike is more versatile and is a better choice if not racing. For your purposes (commuter plus long distance machine), a cross bike is a fine choice.

jrickards

I've been eyeing that same Motobecane as you but was going to cheap out and get the SRAM version.

I don't know why your aluminum bike feels worse now than it did at the beginning; maybe that feeling has been brought on by an infection of N+1. My aluminum 29er still feels the same as it did when I bought it about 2yrs ago (I have switched to another bike for commuting so it doesn't get out as much now).

gregf83 

I use a cross bike for commuting in the winter or rain. The biggest advantage for me is the ability to put on full fenders vs the clip-ons I previously used on a road bike. The roads I ride on are smooth so 23 or 25mm tires are fine.

If you have time you might consider a used vs new bike. I picked up a used carbon s-works tricross for about $1,600.

LokiWolflord

There is probably a bit of N+1. The degradation of the ride quality over time may be imagination, or, even more likely, justification.

Don't get me wrong though, I highly recommend the Escape to anyone getting back into riding who needs an upright pedaling position and a reliable bike. For a starter bike, the Escape has been excellent.

PaulRivers

A cross bike can take wider fatter tires, and it's easier to fit fenders on. If you ride roads that are actual gravel it's a necessity. If you ride roads with lots of potholes it's very helpful - a fatter tire handles potholes better. If your problem is that your bike has a to stiff feeling, fatter tires might help, but so would a different bike with a different design or specs. If your problem is a feeling of road buzz, fatter tires don't help at all in my experience. (Some people claim they do - I disagree.)

The new full carbon Trek Emonda is the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden in reducing road buzz and handling potholes in it's 500-level carbon frame ($2600) -
Émonda SL 5 - Trek Bicycle

The Trek Domane is good to, but I liked the Emonda better.

Trek also makes cyclocross bikes, again I'd suggest something with their 500 level carbon (a step above entry level).

I would never spend that kind of money on a ti bike - a **good** carbon frame, in my opinion, is always better for the same money. Ti/Steel handles potholes and bounces better, but I test rode around 15 bikes this spring, 2 of them steel and steel handles bumps better but didn't reduce road vibration. Whereas good carbon fiber handles both well.

I go for steel if I need something cheaper, full carbon if priority is ride quality. Even then, bike design seems to play a bigger role sometimes than material - my aluminum "endurance" bike (with carbon fork) handles road imperfections better than 1 of the steel bikes I road. Heck, it handles road imperfections better than 1 of the full carbon bikes I rode - though none handled them nearly as well as the Emonda.

If you want a front rack for touring, then you're usually back to steel because it's hard to find full carbon with front rack mounts. But if you just want to do long rides with a rear rack (and again good full carbon is even nicer on long rides), the Bontrager Backrack is designed to go on full carbon bikes without rack mounts like the Emonda or the Domane -
Bontrager: BackRack Lightweight (Model #08214)

**********-ITEM-?Y's Road ???
(pic is on the full carbon Damone)

mstraus

As usual I think @PaulRivers gave a very well thought out answer.

What is best for you is really dependent on what you need and what you want to spend. DO you want a rack or will you carry a backpack? What size tires would you want to run?

The two things that will make the most impact on ride is tire size and frame material, though geometry can help a bit. I tested a couple CF bikes, including some with a more relaxed geometry like the Specialized Roubaix, and a similar type bike from LOOK. Both were really nice but I wanted something I could put a rack and load up for some light touring, so decided against the CF route. CF was really nice at absorbing vibrations, but hard bumps (potholes etc) were still pretty tough due to the stiffness of CF. If I was upgrading my road bike for recreation more then commuting I probably would have gone this route though.

I found that steel bikes with slightly wider tires ride the best overall, particularly when you have bumps and potholes. If you get a steel CX, gravel grinder, or adventure tourer, or regular old touring bike you will also have clearance for wider tires - best of both worlds for commuting perhaps if you prioritize comfort over all out speed.

Since you said maybe some light touring, I think a steel tourer or adventure tourer might be a good fit. Maybe a CX bike that can take enough of a load. Look at Salsa Vaya, Spec AWOL, All-City, Surley LHT or maybe even crosscheck, etc.

RidingMatthew

i have a 12 Motobecane Fantom CX and I have commuted on it over 3000 miles and I even toured with it as well. I rode the Great Allegheny Passage this year. I am very impressed with the ride of the bike. I do think that the shorter wheelbase makes the ride a little more spritely over a touring bike but it has been fun and good bike. I wish I have disk brakes in foul weather but for the most part it has been a good bike/ purchase. I have fenders I am planning to install sometime. I just can not figure out how to do the rear fenders due to the way the rear deraileur (sp) runs.

fietsbob

CX Is its own Niche .. Top end, Competition Cyclocross Race frames are not that relaxed ..

the rest of the offerings mix in Touring and Hybrid details ,

and so offer rack and mudguard mounts , you may find them to be more relaxed , as they are about commuting

Gravel Grinding and just having a drop bar bike that accepts wider tires.



now back to touts, about your favorite brands an models.. local availability cognizant or not.




...

PaulRivers

Lol, when I saw I had been mentioned, it cut off the sentence and in a quick glance I thought it said something like "As usual, PaulRivers rambles on..." and I was like "oh, crap"...lol.

I disagree slightly, though - these things *are* a matter of opinion and this just mine. :-) The OP's description sounds like a lot of people - probably will ride the bike all the time, may do longer rides like a century, and thinks he might, possibly do some light touring, though I give it about 25% whether the bike will every actually be used for that.

I think one should prioritize their choice based on what they'll be doing most often - and what they'll be most comfortable and enjoyable with.

My dad is retired, and he bought a Surly Crosscheck and converted it to a flat bar. Even as an older retired guy, he doesn't like it - it feels slow and sluggish (his description), it's not fun to ride. I would personally never buy one because I find the bar end shifters annoying. Now clearly some people like them -

But you usually give up something noteable in handling, ride quality, and perceived speed (fun factor) by going to a full touring rig. So I don't think it's a good way to go for someone who's primary use of the bike is commuting and long rides - particularly if they're looking for comfort. Or an interesting ride. Most touring bikes I've seen (and I used to own a Cannondale touring bike in high school) specifically targets "rides and handles like a bus".

dynaryder

I actually had an older version of one of those(had canti posts,but the original owner upgraded to discs). It was my favorite bike until it was stolen. Ride quality was excellent with 32mm tires on DC's torn up streets. If you're wanting to ride in all weather,run a rear rack,and do longer rides,I think this would be a better choice than most road bikes. The discs will work in rain and snow,you'll have a wide range of tires you can run(mine would fit 40mm knobbies without fenders),and you'll be able to run fenders and a rack.

LokiWolflord

1) I will use a rack. Backpacks are not my favorite thing when I ride.
2) Narrow tire size is the one of things holding me back from a road bike. I'd like to run something with a little more width so I can ride some of the dirt around here.

I'm leaning heavily towards a cyclocross bike. SoCal roads don't get sealed the way roads get sealed in places where it snows. The pavement on some parts of my commute really sucks.
It doesn't rain a great deal here, either, but I still like the idea of disc brakes. The Escape has V-brakes that are okay, but not great stopping power in an emergency. I'm pretty lucky that drivers are, for the most part, very bike conscious around here; however, it only takes one time of not having the stopping power when someone right-hooks me while I'm doing 35 mph downhill to make for a very bad day.

I've been looking at the Salsa Warbird and Vaya. The Surly Straggler looks pretty decent. Masi has the (2014) CX Comp which is an extremely nice bike for the price. The Bianchi Volpe looks great too. The Kona Rove is competitive.

I admit, steel appeals to me. I inherited my dad's 1982 Trek 710. If it wasn't too small for me, I'd have already updated the drive train and would be happily riding that thing around...the ride is like butter.

Price is what is driving me towards Bikes Direct. A Titanium framed bike with Ultegra or SRAM Apex drive train for 2 grand is very hard to resist.

Craig's List in San Diego County for bike buying is...difficult. There are some nice bikes for sale, but the sellers practically want new retail prices for them.

martianone

Consider a Surly Pacer or similar - steel frame, 28-32 mm tires, comfortable sporty ride ?

tsl

I'll throw my hat in the ring for a Ti CX bike.

My primary commuter is a CX/Light touring mix. I find it perfect for the type of riding you describe. Its only fault is paint.

My Ti bike--while a full-on Dura-Ace equipped roadie--is the perfect knockaround/errand bike. First, there's no paint to leave behind every time I park. Conversely, any marks things leave on it buff out with a Scotchbrite pad.

Second, it's incredibly stealth. I work in da 'hood. Corner boys routinely offer me several bags for my painted bikes (one burnt orange metallic, the other cobalt blue metallic). My retired bright yellow pearl metallic bike nearly had them chasing me down the street for it. I don't even seem to exist when I'm riding the Litespeed. Too plain looking.

When I lock up places with other bikes in a rack, people (usually the other cyclists) ask me about my painted bikes. When I'm on the Litespeed, nobody sez nuttin'.

You'll hear all the other benefits of Ti from others. But for a commuting bike, I think these take the cake: Indestructible finish, and completely off bike thieves' radar.

If I ever have to replace my Portland, it will be with a Ti CX bike.

krobinson103

Soma Double cross. Most comfortable bike I've ever had. If I had to describe it one word it would smooth. Fast and responsive if unloaded, can take decent load, not too heavy and the frame is just the right temper. Not too stiff, not noodly. It also runs disc brakes, cantis, or caliper (disc is my choice) and will take up to 38c tires if you ever want to. I like 32 myself. My only complaint is the built in derailler hanger. I'd rather have one that can be replaced should it get bent.

TGT1

I'm thinking of this Motobecane Fantom Team Titanium

I got a pro (only difference SRAM instead of Shimano and maybe slightly lighter wheels) the first of the year and have about 2500 miles on it now


A few modifications,

Brooks B-17 Imperial on a 30 mm setback seatpost (Vello Orange)
Flipped the steer over to get a more relaxed bar height (needed a longer brake cable to do that)
Double wraped the bar tops, (I have big hands and the SRAM hoods seem to be made for small ones, That fixed the transition from the hoods to the tops.)
Swapped out the small ring for a 34T (for fire roads and making wrong turns onto single tracks :-)
Went to organic pads on the front disk to get rid of the squeal

I've run a 22-24mm set of racing tires on it and could keep up with the carbon roadies on a century and now have 42mm Conti Cross rides on it for commuting and playing on the San Gabriels fire roads. 42 mm is as big as is practical on this frame, but that's a relatively huge patch of rubber as it is. The stock 32mm Conti Cyclocross race tires are noisy on the street, have relatively high rolling resistance and have a short life (1000-1500 mi or so)

As far as frame compliance / comfort VS stiffness and power transfer, I can't imagine a much better compromise.

what I'd change:

If I could get the Ti/carbon road bike fork on the same frame, that would be about perfect!

While the Cyclocross fork looks to be unbreakable, it doesn't have much caster and this is a bike you have to ride! I wouldn't call it twitchy, but you aren't going to ride it hands off much either.

GeneO 

You might want to look at a gravel grinder. It has more of a road bike geometry but can accept larger tires like a cyclotrons. I have my eye on a Raleigh Tamland, It is Reynolds steel and should have a much more more supple ride than aluminum.

Raleigh Bicycles - Tamland

a1penguin

I think the fatter tires will offer smoother ride than carbon fiber frame road bike. CX bike will be heavier than a road bike, but this is the commuting forum where speed doesn't matter much. The BD titanium Motobecane bikes seem to get good reviews here.

TransitBiker

I have a question: Have you changed anything on the bike since you got it, especially tires & tire inflation pressure? have you changed the seat or adjusted its position?

I have found tires & seat to be 85% of how a bike feels in real world conditions, given correct geometry.

The other thing i can think of is footwear & gloves. I had my old cruiser for 12 years, and it felt the same unless i changed seat or tire or wore shoes not so good for use on pedals. In winter when i wore gloves with it, depending on how thick i had to layer (skinny or plush or both together) really affected how much road feel got though to my hands.

Just curious to know, as 12 years is a lot longer than 2 & it was a basic alu cruiser frame, nothing fancy, and between changes mentioned above, i never sensed any difference, and i'm pretty in tune with that kinda stuff.

- Andy

LokiWolflord

I recently changed the seat back to the stock seat from the a little too padded one I had been using. I have adjusted the sit position correctly though. I did have to shorten up the reach a bit. Tires are always filled to 105 PSI. My dad was always an avid cyclist so, I developed good habits as child when I was riding with him. I've lost a lot of muscle tone in the almost 3 decades I wasn't riding, but maintenance habits die hard.

Mostly, I think it's mental. I'm not thrilled with the geometry of the bike anymore. I'd like something a bit more supple and sexy.

LokiWolflord

I have actually thought about building a Soma. I like the company for sure.

tjspiel

It could be mental. It could also be that while nothing about the bike has changed, you have. Have you lost some weight? If so, then 105 psi might be more than what you need. People often assume that the most efficient tire pressure is the Max that a tire can handle. That's not true. Bouncing off every little imperfection in the road is inefficient. As the load on your tires goes down, so should the PSI. Also it's very common to run a lower PSI in the front tire since there is typically less weight on that.

Still, it sounds like you have your heart set on a new bike. I don't have any particular advice other than stay away from cheap CF frames. One of the advantages of CF is that the ride characteristics can be greatly influenced by the details of how the frame was made. The problem is that it's pretty hard to tell from the outside a quality CF from a cheap one (at least in my limited experience). You can't go off things like welds.

From a ride quality standpoint, if you have a carbon or steel fork, the rest of the frame doesn't matter quite as much. There's not a significant difference in ride quality between my two main summer commuters. One is all steel and one is aluminum with a carbon fork. In other words, I wouldn't pass on an aluminum framed bike if it had a carbon fork and the other features I was really looking for.

Coal Buster

I bought a steel framed Jamis Coda Elite; much more comfortable than my old Cannondale which was a very nice bike. I have 700x38c tires on it instead of the original 28c's. I consider it my road commuting bike and have put on a rack and fenders. But that hasn't stopped me from taking it off road. I just did 30 miles of rail trail last Saturday. Jamis has downgraded the Coda since mine was made but the Elite model still has Columbus tubing.

winston63 

I think CX bikes make great commuters if you want something on the "sporty" side. The ability to mount full fenders & a rack plus flexibility with tire size makes them pretty well suited to that purpose.

As already mentioned, I wouldn't automatically rule out an aluminum frame as they can ride very nice with a carbon fork and the right tires. The one thing I would recommend watching out for is rear rack clearance for panniers: some CX bikes (my Kona Jake the Snake for example) have a fairly short wheel base and a small rear triangle. It's a bit tricky to mount panniers on the rear rack that have enough clearance for your heel when pedalling. There are some solutions to this though, and generally if I'm commuting on my Jake I'll just use an Arkel Tailrider trunkbag instead of panniers.