Robert C

There is a stretch of my daily commute that has a dog problem. Day and night I get chased, today I reached, close to, the end of my fuse.

I was on my way home after my usual 11 hours at work and out came the usual pack of four chiwawas (or some similar small barkers), 2each from 2 houses on the opposite sides of the road. This was usual and I was prepared to out ride them. Unfortunately they alerted a pair of pit-bulls (that are usually kept fenced; but this time the gate was open.

I saw a clear problem and dismounted, put the bike between me and them and called the police. Surprisingly I got a quick response, the officer that responded stated that he also rides in the evening and gets chased in the same spot. His claim was than now that he had citizen complaints he could follow up the call he, says he has made, to animal control.

I said something a bit inappropriate, I said that I wasn't big stick angry yet, I was call the police angry, which I see as a first step. His comment was that I am now recorded as having been attacked by wild animals, as such I have a clear and legal reason to carry a big stick; further, he commented, domestic dogs, by definition, cannot be in the middle of the street without control. As such, if I took a stick after them I wouldn't be striking a domestic animal, I would be striking a wild animal, and these is no law against defensively striking a wild animal.

All the same, I will wait and see if animal control can solve the problem. I like dogs, I am a dog person, I really do not want to be going one-on-one and do my SCA routine with someones pet dog in the middle of the street.

I shouldn't have slipped and said anything about a stick; but his response surprised me.




Edited to add. . .

I probably compounded stupid with this one; bit I sent a letter to the dispatch office. It is suposed to sound pleasant; but I am told I don't do pleasant well. . .

Grey.

I also like dogs, and that is exactly why I would have called the police too. This sounds like a classic case of owner neglect, these dogs could get hit by a car or worse, attack someone and be put down.

Dogs are creatures of instinct and it is our responsibility to keep our pets under control, I expect nothing less from myself regarding my own animals.

14R 

If you are a dog person or not, you mght just have saved the lives of these pits.

achoo

The chihuahuas usually come out and chase you? Crappy owners there - you owe those owners nothing. Besides, chihuahuas aren't dogs - they're snake food...

The pit bulls getting out seems like a mistakenly open gate. It happens.

GeneO 

I am a dog person (well iffy on the Chihuahuas though). You did the right thing all of the way as far as I am concerned. I think your composure is exemplarily IMO - having been chased by dogs myself - it is very discombobulating. Loose Pit-bulls are scary stuff. They can be unpredictable and very dangerous if so.

Clyde1820

You have far more than that. You have every right to be armed against such threats, up to and including spray, sidearm, whatever. Spray and baton might be suitable for cycling along. Sidearm, depending.

Do much the same, myself. Have occasionally run into dogs that believe I'm food or something to be toyed with. Can be dangerous, with larger, stronger dogs. I like dogs, generally speaking. But an individual dog loses its "rights" the moment it decides to perforate my feet, legs, hands (or worse). As it should be.

Do what you need to do. Concern for the dog's POV should (IMO) be secondary, way down the line.


Glad to see that police in your town are available and responsive to these sorts of calls. Hopefully the owner will get a clue, or be made to get one. He's going to lose those dogs, if he's not careful ... one way or the other. And that could get very expensive, if he blows the handling of it.

jyl

Carry pepper spray and have it ready the next time you ride there.

TransitBiker

No such thing as a bad dog, but a bad owner. Having done pet sitting for 2.5 decades and helping raise and look after and transport service dogs, and transport rescues, i have more than my fair share of information & opinion on the topic here.

I will say that these owners do not deserve to have these dogs, and that pit bulls are the sweetest most adorable dogs ive worked with over the years. You were right to be upset, and you have the right to defend your person from imminent harm. Leaving a gate open is legally equivalent to parental neglect, and i've seen dogs seized due to a gate being left open. In the end, stupid is as stupid does, and ignorant auto-pilot type people will get dogs & this kinda crap will happen. I wanna thank you for doing the right thing and contacting the authorities vs "street justice". You may want to follow up to see if there are any next steps to be taken, such as the animals being placed in protective custody via foster home while the owners get their day in court for being so negligent.

- Andy

Bike Gremlin

When I was a kid, there were no gates in suburban area. Dogs would run free. But they knew which yard they were allowed to go. All the neighbours dogs stayed out of my grandma's garden - she taught them with a stick, but they knew and respected that. No dogs attacking people. Now it's all the fences, dogs angry barking at whoever passes by the fence, locked doors...

Last 3 years I wend a bit further suburban - more away from the city. There are still gates, but most dogs are left in the street. Playing with kids, barking only at drunk people - no problems. Some dogs are locked, but most are let to run in the street, coming home in the evening to eat and sleep.

Guess it's about the character of different dogs and the way they are socialized.

TransitBiker

Yea, that has never been allowed here. Dogs outside are either fenced in, or put on a leash anchored somewhere like an auger anchor (ground) or a tree, or a porch post or laundry line pole etc. A dog with issues = owner not correctly handling the dog. In some cases a rescue may have been abused (i'll spare you all the horrific details of that) and have emotional issues that result from the trauma. The emotional issues then translate into behavioral issues that can be nearly impossible to deal with. Often these hard cases are paired with another dog (r child, or another animal), be it on purpose or accidentally, and that can really help or even "cure" the troubled pup. What most people do not realize is that you give off an energy, and they pick up on it 100%. If the owner has an issue, the dog may plug into that & end up misbehaving. Unlike wolves and coyotes, domesticated dogs need us to give them cues, and the right cues at the right time, timing is everything. Get that stuff wrong, and you can get problems from stealing food to aggression to coming home to things destroyed and whatnot. It is my opinion that all potential pet owners should be required to take and pass a class before being given the right to own or care for any animal.

/rant

- Andy

Clyde1820

Perhaps.

But it's the dog whose teeth are buried in my bum that the issue on the instant of an attack, not the owner. It's the dog I've got to deal with, whatever the owner's contribution might be.

With most dogs it isn't going to matter, my recognition of the owner's hand in all of this. With some, it's not really relevant when an actual attack is happening. You can deal with it or not, and that's pretty much the only choice a person is going to get. With a very strong, quick dog that's clamping down and not backing off, there aren't a lot of choices at that point. BTDT, on a couple occasions.

mgw4jc

A rider in my local club recently posted that she was chased by two dogs. An SUV behind her took accidentally hit and killed one of them. Bad situation for all involved. I would think the owner should be punished for some type of animal cruelty by neglect, but not sure if that kind of thing gets followed up on.

Blues Frog

Know from where the wind is coming from if using mace. I have used mace in martial situations on people. You usually get a good snort of mace when you spray it. (Worse if your partner mistakenly sprays you). Don't ask how I know these things. LOL

BobbyG

Over the years I have had a handful of loose dog incidents; no Pit Bulls, but a couple of big scary dogs. My AirZound airhorn stopped all but one in their tracks. The one that didn't stop did slow enough that there was no problem. But since these weren't recurring engagements I can't tell if the horn would help. One time on a slow portion of my commute a dog was loose a block ahead, so I turned down another street and he followed me. Seeing kid in the area I called police, emailed them a video of the loose dog, and never saw the dog again.

TransitBiker

I have been bitten by aggressive dogs several times. One ripped a neat 1/4 inch hole all the way through my skin above my knee with the other big tooth only puncturing but no ripping plus gashes from other teeth. It hung onto my leg & pulled. I calmly put my finger on its jaw to give it a jaw cramp (thank you anatomy), it let go, i got it by the collar and put it away in crate and put pressure on leg till it stopped gushing blood, then gauzed it up heavily. Less than a week later i had a really bad bike crash, and that resulted in a hospital visit & x-rays etc. I found the crash to be far worse of a thing physically & emotionally/mentally, but that may just be me. The bigger picture is poor dog ownership being allowed, but yes, in that moment, the idea is to end the conflict with as little harm to all involved as possible. It can be very terrifying, especially if you're in a certain frame of mind & caught way off guard.

- Andy

PaulRivers

I would also add in that carrying bear spray (pepper spray) is a good idea - it causes the dog pain without real injury (like it would have with a stick), and teaches it not to chase bikers.

Darth Lefty 

Just a note that the thread title is amusing. When the owner calls the dogs they don't come, but when the dogs call the police...

Joe Minton

Pepper spray.

Joe

TransitBiker

Yea, don't use pepper spray on dogs or cats, it can damage their sense of smell permanently.

Just call the cops and be on your way.

- Andy

Clyde1820

Different tools for different purposes:

• Some sort of tool to assist for removal of a violent dog from one's arm, arse, etc. (Spray, knife, club, sidearm, whatever.)
• Some sort of means to clean up afterwards, hold the owner accountable, take the dog away. (Calling the police, calling the dog catcher.)

Depends on the problem. Police or dog catchers who are elsewhere aren't going to help, in the moment a dog's doing the "nasty" on your arm.

TransitBiker

Yes, I understand. My point is that humans are much more capable of causing harm to a dog than a dog to human. Aggressive behavior in your own defence can trigger more intense reaction from the dog. Usually a gentle jab to the ribs or base of neck/shoulder area is usually a good way to snap them out of the "zone".

- Andy

cobrabyte

There's a reason cops train to use pepper spray correctly. If you don't know what you're doing, it can be as dangerous for you as it is for the dog.

Corben

Carry a spare water bottle full of lemon juice. A little splash in the eyes stops them in their tracks. I learned that right here on the forums years ago. I never have used lemon juice myself but I did spray a dog once after reading that with water from my bottle. That surprised him enough that he decided to leave me alone.

TransitBiker

There you go.

- Andy

GriddleCakes

I've been on the other side of this, and I'd like to thank the OP for his course of action. As a dog owner, I'd much rather recover my dogs from the pound than have them running loose in the city. I do try and keep the mutts contained, but **** happens, and I'm pretty sure that my dogs would get in way less trouble at the city pound than they would out running wild.

Early this summer I came home from a hard run with my pups, and in my exhaustion I forgot to close the gate behind us after we entered the yard. I didn't realize this until about an hour later, when I heard the noisy dog barking (I have two, one timid and polite, one aggressively territorial and noisy), which, whatever, she's a noisy dog; but I also happened to look out the window and saw that she was barking AND chasing a pair of cyclists down the street. I ran outside (shoeless and hatless!!) to call her off, and to apologize profusely. The mommy cyclist (it was a mother and her young son) waved it off like it was nothing, and I was left fully aware that I and my unsocial dog had dodged a bullet (or lethal injection, or however they put dogs down these days).

I learned two lessons from this event. One, always, always, always close the gate! And two, some people have no idea how to deal with loose dogs. As I came running out of my house (hatless and shoeless! Seriously, that is a big deal for me), I heard the mother cyclist telling her son to "just keep going". Now, I learned at a very young age, growing up outside the city limits of Wasilla, straight up redneck Mat-Su Valley style, that you don't run from loose dogs. Because they will catch you (they are dogs, and are much faster than you) and they will bite you (they are dogs, and ouch) and then you have to go to the clinic and get shots (triple ouch!).

All dogs, even stupid little toy dogs, have a prey drive, and when you run, that prey drive lights up their tiny brains and overwhelms everything else that they might normally be thinking about, e.g.- cars, squirrels, butts that need to be sniffed. A dog caught in the whirlwind excitement of a prey drive driven chase will generally not relent until it is a) uncomfortably far from home (this can take a while to dawn on some dogs), b) called off by its owner (this doesn't work on some dogs), or c) dies of a heart attack or meteor strike. DO NOT RUN FROM A DOG UNLESS YOU ARE POSITIVE YOU CAN WIN THAT RACE!!!

The mother telling her kid to "keep on going" was giving him terrible advise. Chihuahuas and dachshunds, yes you can outrun, but my dogs are pit mixes, one pit-boxer (I think, the pound didn't provide papers), the other pit-american bulldog-???? (the rescue identified the mother as a pit/AB mix, but the father was unknown; judging by physical characteristics, I think the dad was a husky mix); anyway, I've clocked my pit/AB/?? dog at 35 mph, at which point I slowed down, because that's just too just fast for my neighborhood, even in the middle of the night.

If the breed chasing you is bigger than a chihuahua or dachshund (i.e.-inescapable), stand your ground. Get off the bike, get the bike between you and the dog, throw rocks, use sticks, use pepper spray, or even wasp spray if you have it. Shout, put some bass in your voice, point back where the dog came from while yelling "NO! GO HOME!" (most dogs understand pointing, also, dominant posturing). Don't worry about the well being of the dog, worry about yourself. ******* dog owners won't give a **** about the wellbeing of their dogs, no matter the social pressures (the same goes for ******* kid owners, no matter how many the state takes away, you're always free to have more, just ask my stepsister (like I said, I grew up in/around Wasilla)), and those of us that do care about our dogs, we'll take it as a learning experience. Seriously, I'd rather have my dog blinded by pepper spray than have my dog cause irreparable harm to an innocent stranger. And this is coming from a guy who hates/distrusts all strangers, and loves, loves, loves his dogs.