Papa Tom

NOTE: Please let's not turn this into a debate about whether people should or should not listen to music while cycling! This is for people like myself, who choose to ride with music playing over a speaker or other device that allows you to hear traffic and other sounds perfectly, as well.

I might be late to the party, but I just heard that Apple has discontinued the iPod Classic, which means the demise of mp3's is right around the bend. This, paired with the rapid disappearance of hard drive storage and a shift toward everything we own, create, and treasure being transplanted to the "Cloud," says to me that, pretty soon, all the hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars I have spent building up my exhaustive music collection will be out the window, and that I will eventually have to pay a monthly fee to listen to all the music I already own.

Whether you use an iPod (any model), a SanDisk, or any other mp3 player now, hold on to it, because you may not be able to replace it when it craps out. My big question, then, is how are we going to listen to music on a bike 2, 3, 5 years from now? Will we have to use our smartphones and burn through data and battery charge to stream music from Spotify or one of the other emerging Cloud-based music providers? Are we going to have to suffer through commercials, dropped signals, and buffer underruns? Or do we all need to go back and start hauling CD Walkmen - or maybe even cassettes on our bikes again?

Why the hell is progress taking us backwards all the time? I have purchased the same lifetime worth of songs on vinyl LPs, cassettes, CD's, and mp3's over and over and over. My mp3 collection is well over 10,000 songs now and I can't bear the thought of riding to work without having them slap me in the face every morning. And there's no way I'm adding another monthly fee to my budget.

What are YOU all thinking?

KBentley57

For one, MP3's will never die. They are far too ubiquitous, and if one device will not play them, another will take its place.

When I have listened to music in the past, I usually ride with my phone in the jersey pocket, headphone going up under the jersey to the ear. I only rode with one earpiece in. It was fine, but after a while, I quit. It's not worth the hassle on my morning commute, and on longer rides, I'm usually with a group, or the wife (case for headphone in? ).

I-Like-To-Bike

I'm thinking that you assign WAY TOO much significance to what hardware the Apple Company chooses to sell or not. They do not dominate nor control the mp3 player market, nor the PC or laptop market where hard drives have not disappeared.
YOU might start to worry if and when Apple shuts down their iTune business, I personally couldn't care less about what the Apple Company markets.

Papa Tom

It's not so much Apple's actions, but the general trend in the computer industry away from personalized storage that worries me. It may have to do with anticipated shortages of minerals and other components of storage drives, but I suspect that there is an industry-wide plan to cut costs on manufacturing items that we only purchase every couple of years and replace them with intangible items, such as Cloud storage, that we have to pay for, month-after-month.

I also think that once Apple stops manufacturing mp3 players, the costs to produce them for the rest of the industry will become staggering, ultimately causing the death of mp3's and making my commute to work miserable!

cobrabyte

You know those guys that invested way too much in Eight-Track or LaserDisc? Yeah.

mgw4jc

I'm not sure how the iPhone does it, but on my Android I use Google music and I can download any of my music to the phone's storage. I can add or swap external cards if necessary. I do this for running more than cycling. I copy entire albums, playlists and audio books to my phone and listen while running without using any data bandwidth.

However, if your prediction proves correct in that everything goes to streaming, I would bet that the cost of streaming will come down. Unlimited data may eventually become a norm as coverage improves and carriers compete. And most likely it will just be built into everyone's rates such that the providers know enough about everyone's average usage to know what to charge and still make money.

Gresp15C

My day job involves some things like digital signal processing, and I have a side business in audio electronics.

I would not be too worried about MP3. The reason is that MP3 doesn't depend on any specific hardware. It's an algorithm, i.e., essentially a software method that converts audio data into a compressed format for efficient storage, and a corresponding method to convert it back into audio data. MP3 playback can be implemented in any gadget that contains a microprocessor, which is virtually everything these days. Chances are your kitchen appliances could play MP3's. As for creating MP3 files in the first place, the software for doing this is ubiquitous, and all of the vital elements are available as free open-source software, ensuring that nobody really "owns" them or can take them away.

So many gadgets now use MP3, that they will sustain the format with or without Apple. Virtually any modern cell phone can play MP3's. That's how I do a lot of my music listening. I've converted my entire CD collection (yes, I'm that old) to MP3's.

The problem of being dependent on Apple for music files is an Apple problem, that can be avoided by simply not dealing with Apple.

Now about offline storage: It will be sustained by at least two vital uses. First, it will always be faster than the cloud, and local access will always consume less power, so it will continue to be used for things that need to be fast, or that need to run on batteries for a long time. Second, some applications will never trust cloud storage for security, and data security / privacy are huge issues right now.

andyprough

Google Play Music will let you transfer your iTunes library over to their free service if I recall. Go get yourself one of those gorgeous Galaxy phones. This new KitKat version of Android is absolutely stunning. Best phone system I've ever seen or used - miles better than my wife's iPhone. She's always stealing mine to play with all the cool photo editing tools.

wilfried

Apple still sells 3 other models of mp3 players, so they're hardly dead. And why would anyone need a 64 gig iPhone, if not to store media files? mp3 players were once cutting edge, and Apple could make their mark, but they're now dull, old technology. Apple can't make their reputation on them, so they're losing interest. Yet mp3 playing ability is built into their fancier products. Worry not, you'll be able to carry your music with you for a long time to come.

And no, you shouldn't listen to music while riding. Had to say it.

Grey.

MP3's (espically the low bitrate junk on iTunes) are a poor representation of digital audio. All of my music is Lossless FLAC which I keep on my computer, I typically rotate about 35 albums on and off my smartphone (which supports FLAC so I don't have to convert them) for use while riding. Apple hasen't been relevant in the world of serious audio listening for a long time, and has very little impact on that market.

Dedicated PMP's like the iPod were superceded by cellphones ages ago, nobody is carrying around proprietary hardware when every phone made in the last ~8 years does the same thing, not including people who use purpose-built portable DAC's. Apple didn't invent digital audio and the iPod has already come and gone, MP3's are still here. I think you need to expand your viewpoint a bit and relax.

Papa Tom

>>>I think you need to expand your viewpoint a bit and relax<<<<<

From the OP: OK, I think this discussion has gone far enough for a bicycling forum, so I'm going to try to bury it now. I will take your word for it that offline storage will continue until I am off the planet. I hope you are all correct.

By the way, I have used a 4gb Sandisk m200 Series player on my bike for several years. It cost me $9.99 and runs for weeks on a single AAA battery. In fact, along with two iPods and an iPhone, I own three of these. By creating duplicate copies of my mp3 files at 128k/mono sample rate, I am able to store about 1000 songs and, on my bicycle speaker, they sound just fine. Having been a musician - and still being involved in audio production and music programming - I understand compression and sound quality, but for casual music listening, I still think mp3 is an excellent and very practical format.

asque2000

It's a demand thing. Nobody buys iPod Classics any more, therefore they are no longer profitable. Should the demand come back, I'm sure Apple would bring them back.

I have a feeling that Apple will strongarm wireless companies to allow unlimited music streaming from iCloud not too long from now. T-Mobile has something like that now, but my guess is others will come around soon. I still have my original unlimited data plan from AT&T so I stream all the time!

Papa Tom

I don't WANT to hear somebody else's music. I want to listen to MY collection, which is loaded with gems from the past 100 years, including out of print records and demos that I played on during the 80's and 90's. The best streaming service in the world will never own most of the stuff I have.

asque2000

No I know. Currently you can upload your entire library to iCloud using iTunes Match (it's nice because Apple will up-convert songs to 256 kb/s). You can then "download" songs/albums onto your phone ipad etc. I expect Apple will soon let you stream your library free of data costs and eliminate the need to download onto devices in the next couple of years.

ill.clyde

Easy Chicken Little ... the sky isn't falling.

Most any smartphone these days will play MP3s. It's because of this that the ipods are going the way of countless technological wonders before it.

You could even hold onto a phone that wasn't connected to a carrier and use it as a somewhat glorified MP3 player.

Route 66

Apple is discontinuing the iPod Classic because it is a mechanical device containing a HDD. I think it's a stretch to jump to the conclusion that MP3's will be going away because of this. I can see a time in the not too distant future when Apple will not longer install HDDs in their computers also. Everything seems to be moving towards the more reliable flash memory now.

Grey.

Storage is incredibly cheap and getting cheaper, portable cloud services exist now as a novelty. Lower bitrate = lower quality audio + higher power consumption and bandwidth concerns. I know there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't care if their music was being played through a tin can but I personally wouldn't want the bitrate of my music being truncated every time my phone dips into a low coverage zone.

gdhillard

I am happy with listening to the radio, on a Sangean DT-210, riding in a little pouch on my bars. Listening to the radio, mostly a local alternative station, but sometimes NPR, takes me out of owning, selecting and controlling my music, which I get to do at home, and lets someone else pick the tunes. I charge the batteries once a week. It's a great system.

Amazon.com: Sangean DT-210 FM-Stereo/AM PLL Synthesized Pocket Receiver: Electronics

Rich Gibson 

I never bought into the cloud and won't. I have over 500 movies on DVD/BD with double redundant backup. Likewise my audio (40 gb) is on each of my Galaxy S4, LG 8" tablet and 12" Samsung tablet via removable 64gb microSD cards. I do subscribe to Live365 and can stream from literally thousands of websites. I use that on my S4 phone and play it in the background while I track my ride using iPBike app. While I am a MAC user (Pro & 2 minis) I haven't drunk the cool aid. The recent hacking of Home Depot and Target are only a taste of what can/may happen with over reliance on 'the cloud.' What happens when an eastern Europe based hacking outfit brings down Apple's servers, or Google, or any other sizable setup?

Rich

spare_wheel

given that scan disk just release a 512 gb sd card (e.g. those tiny chips that fit in phones and cameras) i don't think personal storage is disappearing any time soon. in fact, i think it's only a matter of time before medical implants with sophisticated hid devices are available. i personally would love to have a heads up internet display available at any time. and just think of how much quicker one could google a response when someone is wrong on bike forums...

Grey.

Local copies will never be replaced by remote data that has to be retrieved from a server. I don't know about you guys but my cell coverage is hardly perfect, and the "Cloud" is only as good as your coverage.

I-Like-To-Bike

Don't ya know that "serious audio listening" is to listening to music, as "serious bicycling" is to bicycling; a lot of hot air pretense over an alleged ability to appreciate an activity in a manner superior to the unworthy masses. I wonder just how much better music recorded in Lossless FLAC format and played back through a Smartphone and earplugs sounds than your Sandisk mp3 player when cycling outdoors in the real world, and not in the laboratory?

I know it is a lot easier to handle an mp3 player than any smartphone while cycling and far easier to protect from the elements. And a battery that only needs recharging once every 50-60 hours of listening outperforms any existing smartphone.

Note: My 16GB Cowan iAudio7 mp3 player does support FLAC playback as well as other formats:
MP3 : MPEG 1/2/2.5 Layer 3, ~320kbps, ~48khz, mono/stereo
WMA : ~256kbps, ~48khz, mono/stereo
OGG : ~q10, ~44.1khz, mono/stereo
FLAC : compression level 0 ~ 8, ~44.1khz, mono/stereo
WAV : ~48khz, 16bit, mono/stereo

Mp3 format works just fine for my unsophisticated non-serious ears, for both the music and audiobooks that I have been listening to for years while cycling.

I am sure you have many years left of enjoyable mp3 format music left on your Sandisk or a multitude of other devices capable of playback in the future. My advice, forget about Apple marketing when it comes to listening to music.

Grey.

My FLAC music is for home listening, it's just convenient that I can put it on my phone without having to convert it. Some people still watch VHS and are as happy as can be, i'll take FLAC (and Blu-Ray.)

I-Like-To-Bike

The OP's issue is listening to music while cycling, not home listening. I would think that watching movies on a 4.7" Smartphone screen while cycling would look about the same in VHS or Blu-Ray format.

I-Like-To-Bike

Speaking of Apple marketing and music, the company deposited the U2 band's "Songs of Innocence" into the online accounts of half a billion iTunes users. The sudden appearance of the album's 11 songs was viewed by many as an aggressive marketing assault. See: Apple's free U2 "gift" angers many customers - CBS News and Apple Outrages Users By Automatically Installing U2's Album On Their Devices - Slashdot