amgarcia

I'm looking for a commuter, mountain bike, and camper all rolled into one (85%, 10%, 5%). I commute 4 days a week in most weather and would like to be able to utilize trails and come off curbs a little more. I am currently not a mountain biker but would like to get started, and I camp a few times a year (with mtb trails accessible at the camping locations).

Wants listed as follows:
*26-inch or 650b since I'm only around 5'-6".
*Price very little issue, but cheaper is better. I'll take a long time to save though and build it just how I want it, so I'd rather get it right.
*Steel frame only.
*More tire clearance, better.
*Lowish trail - Commute with front randonneuring bag for easy access to essentials. Currently commute on a 1988 Trek 520 with ~55-56mm of trail, about that of the Camargue. I am worried higher trail will be difficult with my commuting setup. This seems unattainable with all the other wants.

The list:
*Surly Troll - Tons of braze ons a plus, massive tire clearances for semi-fat, but highest trail of the bunch
*Surly Ogre - Short guy here, maybe prefer 26 inch
*Surly ECR - Massive wheels, probably too big for short person
*Gunnar Rock Tour
*Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road Tour EX
*Soma B-Side
*Rivendell Hunqapillar - Doesn't really seem to fit the mountain bike role
*Vintage bike with the perfect combination of wants
*Or something else you suggest!

I'm slightly worried I should just quit the quest, keep my Trek 520, and get a dedicated mountain bike. I have some problems with the Trek though, including "minimal" tire clearance (700x38c), built for 27 inch wheels, and incompatible with modern cantilevers, particularly Pauls, and a surprising lack of braze ons (single eyelets front and back, hourglass rack eyelets, and the midfork eyelets are unthreaded).

I've negotiated an eventual 3 bike setup with my wife, and I currently envision Hypothetical Stable Number 1 as the following:
*Road Bike
*Rando/Dirt Road Bike/Gravel Grinder
*Mountain Bike/Camper/Commuter

I guess I could settle for the Hypothetical Stable Number 2 instead:
*Road Bike
*Rando/Dirt Road Bike/Gravel Grinder/Commuter/Camper
*Mountain Bike

I would prefer the Hypothetical Stable Number 1 since I don't see myself as a huge mtb guy, wanting mostly the occasional trail to satisfy a want for adventure. I may get the bug though...Then again, I may be overthinking the requirements on the mtb side. That's why I need your help!

Suggestions? Thanks!

icepick_trotsky 

I know you mentioned the Camargue, but have you looked at the VO Polyvalent? It has much lower trail (30 something), and is designed specifically for 650b.

amgarcia

I certainly have, but it doesn't do the offroad thing of Hypothetical Stable Number 1 and seems to burly for Hypothetical Stable Number 2. I will add that too the list and consider it a bit more though!

acidfast7

https://www.fahrradmanufaktur.de/kata...product_id=668

Leisesturm

I don't think the trail of a bike is something I would dwell on. And as for 650B? I don't think so. Terry makes bikes for women using 650B wheels because some of them a 4'10"!! The ones that are 5'6" (like mine) have plenty of choices in 26" (even 700C). I have seven bikes so the o.p. will not get much sympathy from me. IMO this is a classic n+1 situation.

H

amgarcia

Just what I was worried about! Not sure if n+1+1 is possible though.

icepick_trotsky 

It might be, depending on how much stuff OP wants to carry and how he wants to load it.

bikemig 

The troll is a very versatile bike.

Andy_K 

Really, it sounds to me like you could get by with Hypothetical Stable Number 3:

*Road Bike/Rando/Dirt Road Bike/Gravel Grinder/Commuter/Camper/Mountain Bike

...if you picked the right bike and had several sets of wheels.

Mountain bikes are like SUV's. Everybody thinks they need one but hardly anyone actually ends up putting it to serious off-road use. The mountain bike market is constantly diversifying and inventing new segments, but most people end up settling on trail/XC bikes and the fact is that pretty much anything that a trail bike is suitable for can be ridden pretty easily on a cyclocross bike that weighs 15 pounds less.

At the other end of the spectrum, unless you're racing on road a cyclocross bike with slick tires makes a pretty competent road bike and is typically more comfortable than most road bikes.

The cyclocross bike segment is in the process of splitting too as the gravel/adventure bike segment emerges, and this is a very good thing for you. You mention 700x38 as a "minimal" tire clearance. Frankly I think it's plenty and nearly any cross bike will have about that same clearance, but gravel/adventure bikes often have room for wider tires.

I don't know how easy it would be to get one to the U.S., but here's your bike:

Leisesturm

Available here (U.S.):KONA BIKES | 2015 BIKES | FREERANGE | ROVE AL
Available in steel for twice the price. Make mine AL thank you very much.

amgarcia

I typically just carry the essentials in my rando bag - wallet, keys, cell phone, NiteRider, a snack or two, and a few misc. things.

I am probably overthinking the trail thing, but I would rather overthink than end up with a squirrelly front end.

amgarcia

First of all, that Monk is awesome.

On your mountain bike point, you may be correct - I rode my old Surly Cross Check on a local trail and it went "okay". I didn't have enough standover, but I could have handled it if I wasn't worried about racking myself all the time. Maybe a gravel or monstercross bike would do what I'm hoping, but most are 700c or 29ers and I had a lot of trouble with toe overlap on my CC. I'd like to eliminate that - any good 650b options?

Or does the fact that I'm only looking at rigid options make the mtb point void? I'm really not looking for a modern mtb in any regard.

amgarcia

I keep coming back to this point after multiple tangents.

Andy_K 

There could be a hidden answer here.

Consider:



26" wheels, steel, clearance for 2" tires with fenders, widely available for around $100 -- excessive trail might be the biggest issue. Otherwise, it's a decent commuter and camp bike.

As for other options, check out the Salsa Vaya. The two smallest sizes come with 26" wheels.

AlTheKiller

650b bead diameter = 584mm
26" bead diameter = 559mm

I think you might have misheard their reasons for choosing that size (650b is generally chosen for shorter rider instead of 700c, not instead of 26". Considering 26" is the smallest of the three.) or aren't thinking of the fact that OP is already asking for certain thickness tires. While 650b is available in thin "road" type tires, it is also widely available in large, chunky off road tires, and voluminous touring/trekking tires as well. So, in OP's case a 650b will be MORE tire than a 26" of the same width.

Leisesturm

I see... ... never mind...

scroungetech

I recommend the Troll. More braze ons than I have yet figured out a use for, ran well with the stock Kenda Kinniption 26x2.3's, runs better as a daily commuter with Schwalbe Marathon 26x1.5's. Plenty of options in the rear dropout, and everywhere else. I've found my N+0.

stevel610 

I was going to suggest a Novara Safari. Their small has 650b's. They've been running a sale on them for $638.00 which is a steal. Unfortunately online they only have the XL's left. You might be able to find one in stock at a store and have it shipped. They have clearance for at least 2.35's. At least the XL does. The rims handle on the low side 32's (at least) and the upper could fit 2.35's.

That price leaves a lot of wiggle room for personalizing it.

alan s 

Don't know about the other bikes you mention, but the Troll will do what you need. I commute 150 miles a week mostly on 700c wheels, and tour offroad with 26" wide tires. Not really into MTBing, but you can do that as well. Racks and fenders and a wide range of tires will fit the bike. Here are a few pics in different configurations.

Commuter with wide tires


Commuter with skinny tires


Touring mode


Winter with 26" studded tires


MTB

corwin1968

Based on your OP, I think you have a misunderstanding about the RBW Hunqapillar. It's very, very similar to the Camargue but I would argue that the Hunqapillar is more MTB than the Camargue. The Hunqapillar has a longer top-tube and more trail, both characteristics of MTB's. The only area where the Hunqapillar gives up anything to the Camargue is in bottom bracket drop. The Hunq has 80mm (low BB) and the Camargue has 70mm (higher BB...more typical of MTB's.

The guy who runs the Gypsybytrade blog has experience with the Hunqapillar and he said it's well designed as a dirt road tourer. He also worked for Velo-Orange and had some input into the creation of the Camargue and he felt the one area where the Hunqapillar was lacking was in it's low bottom bracket. He recommended the higher BB on the Camargue for better clearance off-road.

Having said all that, I have test ridden an Ogre and a Troll and both are amazing bikes!! I would buy a Troll based on my type of riding and a preference for smaller wheels but if I was planning on riding mega-miles, I would probably choose the Ogre. It's hard to define but 700c wheels just seem to travel better. 26" wheels are more fun for just "riding around".

PennyTheDog

Wow, I've got to see a picture of that!

OK, that's a stupid joke. Nice bike!

alan s 

You thought Moonlander had fat tires? You should see my 26" tires. Makes trackstanding easy.

Darth Lefty 

Hoosier daddy?

amgarcia

All the recommendations for a Troll. Now I need to find a frameset my size! If anyone has a 16-inch available...

I think the answer is n+1. My commute is fairly short (6 miles round trip), so maybe the geometric trail won't bother me over that distance (I hope!), even with a front load. Then I'll just have to get a cyclocross bike or "off-road" rando bike.

JAG410

Another plug for the Troll here. I originally built mine as a 26" wheel super commuter, which gets fenders and studded tires for winter. This summer I converted it to a 650B mountain bike, and it just plain rips! This winter it'll turn into a drop bar, 26", fendered, dynamo lighted, studded tire go everywhere machine. It can handle all the racks, fenders, bottle cages and wheel sizes you can throw at it.