cobrabyte

The presumption that I want you on my wheel just because we both ride bikes is impolite. Don't be shocked if you receive an impolite reaction in return.

In what other activity is it socially acceptable to get all up in someone's business like that without asking?

kickstart

Basically its useless information without specific information about location and present conditions. "City" as in city center? All facilities in the region?

ItsJustMe

That's ridiculous. Heck, its arguably not even safe to ride that slowly, for a number of reasons. What does this mean, do they have any authority? I'd argue hard against even a suggestion that anyone should be going that slowly on the streets.

tcs

Whoa, sorry, didn't mean to derail the discussion of following distance for commuters!

The 6-8mph thing came from their belief that those speed were appropriate and achievable for 8 year-olds and 80 year-olds, and that should be the target travel speed that cycling facilities (where they think almost all cycling should take place) should be designed to facilitate. No, those cats aren't in control here, they're just another (loud, organized) voice in the public debate.

Sorry again, I was just amused that the whole concept of follow distance is kind of mute at those speeds.

caloso

I'll essentially repeat what I said in the 41: 3 bike lengths is too far back to get an effective draft but close enough to be annoying and/or creepy. So either ask for and receive permission to draft properly, pass, or soft pedal and let a gap open.

Jaywalk3r

That's outrageous enough that I would have to see it in writing from the local organization to believe it. It's hard to ride that slow, not in the sense of keeping he bike upright, but rather expending that little energy.

Booger1

If your 2-3 bikes behind me and staying there,it ain't my turn to take a pull.....Hope I don't drop a water bottle and slam on my brakes....

Jaywalk3r

Two words: snot rocket.

Hypno Toad

I feel like Bikeyface did a nice job with the issue of following distance - Bikeyface » Bike Creep

spare_wheel

i'll let them know that i am turning off soon or i will pass them.

This is a fairly typical comment from someone who moves to portland and starts cycling:

https://twitter.com/GeraldF_PE/statu...11612230352897

(The city has finally started to address this disparity in speeds and is now building more infrastructure with bike "fast lanes".)

kickstart

I take it you don't have any hills in your area?

woodway

It's the height of rudeness to jump on the wheel of a rider you don't know without asking permission. I like the walking down the street analogy. When someone appears on my back wheel I'll wave them back. If they persist, I'll wave them around me. If they still persist (and this happens on a regular basis) I'll turn around and ask them to pass or back off. I enjoy my commute as a solo experience and don't want to worry about somebody on my wheel.

rhm

I'm not sure what a "polite distance" is, but as long as both politeness and some distance are involved, I think you're okay. But bear in mind it totally depends on the situation. The rules on Manhattan avenues with bike lanes are different from the rules on the Central Park loop, and the rules in suburban NJ are different still. When both riders are commuters, they observe different rules than when one rider is a commuter and the other is a tourist or a messenger or something. The rules among recreational riders out for "training rides" are different still and don't interest us here in the commuter forum.

So anyway, for me, this is rarely an issue. I'll pass seven or eight of every ten other cyclists I see, and one or two of every ten will pass me, and there's never a time when we're following one another for very long. On the rare occasions that another rider is going the same speed as I, and it looks like we'll be going the same way for a while, I'll stay several lengths back or I'll make verbal contact at a traffic light. Then, if they seem agreeable, I may stay close enough to carry on a conversation for a while.

alan s 

I was riding home one evening, and a fully kitted racer dude passed me, not going that much faster than I was. Probably riding to the local training course. I hung with him a little while until he started blowing snot rockets repeatedly. Got the message and passed him, but that was apparently unacceptable, so he passed me and started up with the snot rockets again. I finally pulled up next to him and asked if he races for the LBS-sponsored team emblazoned on his jersey, and we chatted a while. I know the bike shop owner, bought a bikes from them a couple years ago, and needless to say, he was more than a little bit embarrassed and apologetic.

It's actually a pretty small world sometimes. Perhaps there are better ways of dealing with a situation you find uncomfortable that don't involve blowing snot on others.

Jaywalk3r

Sure do. But they aren't uphill on both sides, going the same direction! Even uphill, 6 mph is pretty slow!

TransitBiker

Oh no, this is to latch on to someone, plus have a wide gap......

- Andy

TransitBiker

I am looking. They were posted here on bikeforums, which is where i saw them.

Oh... here, i found the mountain bike one:
fender bender freakout!!! Video - Pinkbike

- Andy

noglider 

Yikes. I stopped after the cursing started. The guy with the helmet cam rear-ended the woman and blamed her for slamming on her brakes. That really ticks me off.

TransitBiker

Yea, but you don't just stop in the middle of the trail either, or throw your bike at other people and then exclaim to someone that didn't see the incident that the film guy will pay for any damages. I've seen people blow up like that several times over the tiniest thing, and its never pretty, regardless of who is at fault. Some people handle things better than others.

- Andy

noglider 

Granted she lost her cool, but what do you mean don't stop? Are trail rules different from road rules? I feel I can brake as hard as I want whenever I want. If you hit me from behind, you were tailgating and are totally at fault. This guy came from way behind, and clearly, the woman was riding more slowly. Then he got on her tail and hit her. What gives him the right to do that? If she had been a rock or a tree, he would have moved around her, so why should he hit her?

jyl

I do sometimes follow another rider quite closely, like 4-6 feet from their rear tire to my front. The circumstance is always that we are somewhere too narrow for me to safely pass, and the road is going uphill enough that the other rider is slowing. Like a bridge path or a narrow bike lane with cars passing close. I am going to pull out and pass them as soon as I can, so I don't want to slow down and lose momentum. I might follow them closely like this for 100-300 feet before being able to pass. I don't think that's a big deal - it isn't for long.

There is another situation when I might follow someone closely, it is less common. It will also be on a uphill grade of some sort. I will have come up behind someone and before I can pass, he accelerates away. I figure he doesn't want to be passed, instead he is going to ride me off his wheel. I might then glue myself to his rear wheel until he tires out, then pass him halfway up the grade. I don't feel bad, because now we're in a sort of mutual competition. And yes, riders have sucked me up a hill then cruised past when I started blowing - it does go both ways and that is fine.

And there there is the normal tight crowd riding that happens in Portland on popular routes at commute hour. On one stretch of road I'm thinking of, there can be 10 or 20 bikes queued up in the bike lane when the light turns, and cars taking off in the lane adjacent, so until everyone's natural speed gets sorted out and the cars go by so that faster riders can move into the car lane and pass the slower ones, there will be some nose-to-tail riding. I think everyone is used to it. That particular bike lane is being restriped wider now.

I think in the bike cities of Europe, it isn't uncommon to see bike riders shoaled like swimming fish.

If you're talking drafting a stranger for minutes or miles on an uncrowded road, that is kind of weird.

mgw4jc

I rarely see other riders on my commute and usually only if they're going the other direction. A couple of months ago I was caught/passed at a stop sign by 2 roadies clearly out for a workout. I said something like, "I might have to jump on with you guys." One said, "Yea," almost in a tone of, "Yea, if you can keep up." I did and I did. The next 2.5 miles were much faster than normal.

And just yesterday on my way home a roadie passed me on an uphill. I heard him shifting just before he caught me. He did not say anything as he passed. I said, "What's up?" No response. Remembering this thread, I thought to myself, "Guess I'll just be rude and hop on." I had to work a couple seconds to get on his wheel, but I did and stayed less than a foot off for the next 1.5 miles until I had to turn off. Neither of us spoke again. I'm sure he heard me behind him and/or could see my shadow.

I think in a through town situation it is one thing to tail closely. But we were on a rural road where many cyclists and triathletes go for a workout, often in pairs or groups. I don't see this situation as being rude or annoying. I am okay with someone drafting behind me like this.

joeyduck

I was thinking of this thread this morning as I was catching and prepping for a pass on a slower guy. There was traffic oncoming and no passing so I got rather close (one wheel length) before it cleared for me to pass. I had rung my bell as I approached so he should have known I was there. I was in no way concerned being so close either. And I do not care what he thought since I was only back there for max 15 seconds (probably 8-10 seconds in reality).

It is certainly dependent on the situation and rider though. If someone looks halfway competent I will get close and have no issue with them getting close. If they look unsure, wobbly or inexperienced I steer well wide.

If I see someone catching me, barely I will point out hazards to let them know I know they are there and an informal invite to hop on.

TransitBiker

My friend that rides a lot on trails was saying that if you need to stop, you get clear of the trail & slow down first, even when you have a problem you steer off to one side. Your gear should protect you if you go into something like a tree. It's just part of the trail riding experience, and its why you wear all that protection. You should be able to take a tumble at 25 mph and be OK. It was a bad combination of events, but you never just stop in the trail, that is a huge no-no, you don't know how close someone may be following. Point being, following too close with people that might blow up at you = not a good idea.

The BMX guy cut someone off & kicked their front wheel out of frustration that he couldnt get going as fast.

I don't follow people, i either am way back & not likely to catch up. or i pass them, not much grey area.

- Andy

Jaywalk3r

That's probably a good idea on a MTB trail, but that's not how things work, or are designed to work, on a MUP. The slower MUP user has the right of way.