realityinabox

I was taking a corner too fast and ended up slipping out. Aside from a soon to be black and blue hip, I am pretty much alright (aside from my pride... ).

I'm relatively new to commuting and biking in general. I started commuting in August, haven't missed a day yet, so I'd hate a silly thing like icy/snowy roads to break my streak

I ride a Trek CrossRip Comp with its stock tires currently. 700x32 H5 with the super awesome never pop a tube technology. I'd love to keep my 'haven't popped a tire yet' streak going as well, since changing a tube in the snow sounds pretty crappy.

I have some questions/concerns about tires though. My CrossRip has disc breaks, and doesn't have quick release tires, so I'd prefer to purchase something that will be able to handle both wet/icy/snowy as well as dry roads, since swapping out wheels or tires depending on conditions sounds like entirely too much hassle.

I've heard tell of studded tires, which sound great for when it is icy, but how well do they work on dry roads? Do dry roads wear them out quickly? I'm thinking of my previous winters wearing YakTraks, which are awesome on snow/icy, but get worn out when the nice neighbors actually shovel their sidewalks and I'm walking directly on concrete. Same thing with studs?

Any other winter tire buying tips?

bikemig 

Studded tires are the bomb for winter riding. I've also used with success continental winter contact tires; they work well in mixed conditions.

tclune

Read Studded Bicycle Tires and then call Peter White Cycles once you think you know what tire you will need. Their staff is expert in winter tire selection and will get you on the right choice of studded snow tire for your commute. FWIW

alan s 

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...d-700-622-tire

tsl

Studded snow tires aren’t as bad as you might think in the dry. Mine squirm a little in hard cornering, but I don't do that very often in the winter anyway.

Studded tires will slow you down. They weigh a lot. In the 700 x 35mm size, it's about 900 grams depending on the model. Plus they're considerably less supple than road tires, which translates to much higher rolling resistance. (OTOH, you'll have huge, massive quads by spring.)

Mine add about a minute per mile to my commuting time, even before factoring conditions for the day. This doesn’t sound like much until you do the math.

3 mins/mile = 20 mph
4 mins/mile = 15 mph
5 mins/mile = 12 mph <-- Corrected. Many thanks to scroca.

In the three seasons, my commuting average speed is 3.5 mins/mile (about 17) and it drops to 4.5 mins/mile (about 13) with the studs.

Cheap studded tires come with "hardened steel" studs, which wear pretty quickly on bare pavement. We're talking only weeks, if that long. (That's the reason why Innova sells re-studding kits for their tires.) Better studded tires use carbide studs. Those will last for years. This will be the the ninth season on mine.

The two most often cited models in 700 x 35 are the Schwalbe Marathon Winter, and the Nokian Hakkapeliitta W106. There are trade-offs between the two.

If you have deeper snow, and lots of it, go with the Nokians. We get snow daily here and after a while, the city doesn't plow as much. Plus I get a lot of brown sugar snow on my route, which clogs treads easily. So I use Nokians. They have only two rows of studs, however. That's fine on smooth ice, black ice, and such--I've never fallen with them--but it doesn’t help you climb out of icy ruts.

The Schwalbes are better for everything else. They're a little faster in the dry, climb out of icy ruts better, but the shallower tread clogs up more easily in deep snow and brown sugar snow.

Choose your poison.

EDIT: I don't worry about flats in the winter. I haven't ever had one. It's probably due to the much, much thicker tread.

79pmooney

I haven't gone studs yet (except roofing nails winter of '75 in Ann Arbor). The secret I find is to have the grippiest rubber you can get and big enough tires that you can drop the pressure a lot and still not pinch flat. (Another good reason to have a frame pump. You can ride to work with 40 psi and home on 89 after the day has warmed up.)

Ben

realityinabox

Sounds like at least one of the local bike shops has 45NRTH tires in stock. Not sure which model, but the Gravdals look nice... 45NRTH

modernjess

+1 - I agree completely and as usual tsl nails it. I use the nokian W106's, this will be winter number 8 on the same set have not lost a stud and they are barley worn.

You can still go down with the studs on, but the odds are greatly reduced. Get some.

modernjess

I've heard good things about those, and I know some of the folks that design their stuff. I trust 45NRTH, they are all bada$$ winter riders. They know what they're doing.

tsl

Good point. I've ridden mine as low as 20 psi. They bite much better at lower pressure. My dry roads pressure is about 50 psi. They're rated for 65 max. This is at 175 lbs rider weight, and about 30 for the bike.

realityinabox

I am drawn to the 45NRTH Gravdals, but they are 700x38. I think my fenders are only rated to 35mm wide tires...

How skinny is too skinny with studs?

scroca

Nice chart, but it had a typo.

alan s 

When you say "rated to" I assume you have 45mm wide fenders. If so, the 38mm tires should fit, although if you are already tight on clearance, you may run onto issues. The Gravdals are probably going to be a little better in snow, and worse on dry pavement than the Marathon Winters.

modernjess

I'd give it a try with the 35mm fenders. You may need to run them up a little higher off the tire to leave a little space for possible snow accumulation, which is easily spat out by the studs coming around. My PB cascadia's are rated for 35mm tires and the Nokians are supposed to be 35mm but I've never measured. I don't think the extra 3mm isn't gong to be deal breaker for you. Yes, You can find thinner studded tires, and you probably gain speed and less rolling weight, but you give up some float, and tread, and stud count and the ability to run them at lower pressures which really helps them bite on ice. Changing the tire pressure on studded tires is a thing I do almost daily depending on conditions and how much ice or snow there is or isn't. I'll run them full up if it's mostly black top, and way down if it's miles of sheer ice.

realityinabox

Yes, they are 45mm wide fenders. I just went and took a look, the front wheel has plenty of clearance, but I'd be a little weary about the back, as it was already a bit tight with my 32's....

Hypno Toad

So, is this what happened to you?

(my first snowy ride last season, winter bike wasn't ready and summer tires let me down)

Two options/suggestions:

45NRTH

Continental Bicycle -Top CONTACT Winter II (might be the wrong link, they have a 700c version)

I run a studded tire front (Nokian Mount and Ground) and a Top Contact rear, nice compromise. Keep the traction in the front for steering and braking and the lower rolling resistance in the rear for less work. On dry pavement, studded tires give you a lovely sizzling bacon sounds as you roll down the road.

Things to look for when buying studded tires (lessons I've learned the hard way). For on-road/commuter tires, get carbide studs; stainless steel do not hold up on paved surfaces (like the YakTraks). And do not go nuts on the stud count, for commuting, fewer studs is better; high stud count is good for off-road/trail riding.

Lastly, here's a link to Minneapolis bike shop that has great info on winter tires: Studded and Winter Bike Tires | Varsity Bike & Transit (not sure how up-to-date this is)

realityinabox

Yup, that was me this morning, but I was going a bit faster...


The 45NRTHs definitely look appealing, but it is $85 per tire, or for a pair?

jwarner

The Gravdahls are nice, but both these and my Dillingers (the cheeper 27 tpi tires) seem to lose more studs than the Nokian W-106s on my old mountain bike. Not really a big deal, but I did drop 20 bucks on the stud replacement tool and 30 extra studs. I've yet to have a flat with the Gravdahls, but just recently had one (right downtown of course) with the Dillingers.

On the fenders. I'm running the Gravdahls on a Raleigh Sojourn which comes with nice metal fenders. I took these off as winter is hard on fenders, and mounted an old pair of Planet Bike fenders (probably 35-38mm width?) I had laying around. To get the tires to fit took a little creative use of a heat ***. I run the fenders as high as I can, not the prettiest fender line, but it works.

Edit to add... if you found 45 Norths for $85 per tire, that is a good deal. I paid $102 per tire.

Leebo

That is likely $85.00 per tire. Expect 5-10 seasons. I have 5 seasons on one set of nokians and 6 on another.

alan s 

BTD has them at $75 for Gold Members. Plus 10% credit towards next purchase ($15) free shipping and no tax.

Hypno Toad

$85 per tire. This is typical for the good winter tires, but they will last a long time. My first set of studded tires are still in service on my daughters winter bike, this is season 4 or 5 for them.

realityinabox

How import are fenders for winter riding?

alan s 

Around here, more important than any other season. Lots of melting and runoff for days after snowing. Helps keep salt off the bike.

CrankyOne

For me fenders are extremely important. That said I also have spats, a fully enclosed chaincase, IGH, and internal roller brakes. I'm very much in to maintenance free simplicity and since I ride in work clothes (dress jeans, oxford, etc) I don't like anything spraying on me.

I didn't notice if anyone mentioned that you can use air pressure depending on the conditions. More pressure puts more tire and less stud down for dry conditions, less pressure gives you more stud. Theoretically I run 60 lbs when dry, 40 when snowy/icy. Reality is I ride whatever pressure happened to be in the tires in whatever conditions until I notice that I really need to add some air.

fietsbob

Suomi - Nokian And Schwalbe are both making decent studded tires .
my Finland made 26" are in their 20th winter. the studs use the same TungstenSteel as Car Tires.

Thorn resistant tube slow you down a Bit more, but add Puncture resistance
and because they use More Butyl Rubber, hold air a Long time .


These now have multiple distributors in '90 I got them in a bundle of 10 shipped direct.

https://www.suomityres.com/eng/tyres/...r#specs_winter