tarwheel 

As others said, treaded tires actually provide less traction on wet pavement. I found this out very quickly in my motorcycling days when I put some knobby tires on my MX bike. The reason is that treads provide less surface area in contact with the pavement. However, one caveat to this statement is that tire rubber compounds/mixture also can affect traction quite a bit. Some tire compounds are hard and non-sticky, while others are softer and more grippy. A slick tire made from hard, non-sticky rubber might provide very poor traction on wet roads. Look for tire brands that are marketed for riding on wet rides, such as Conti GP 4 Seasons and Vittoria Rubino Pro Techs.

modernjess

Riding in winter is a learning process. There is the optimum gear set up (bikes/clothing etc.) for any given day and it is usually realized in hindsight. Around here winter weather, forecasts, and road conditions can't be trusted on any given day. If you mess around too much the risk of finding yourself with the wrong set up and hitting the ground or suffering is high and I hate hitting the ground and suffering. I used to swap wheelsets and try all kinds of things to anticipate the conditions and get just the right set up for each day but I eventually realized it's a zero sum game really. About the only thing I do these days is adjust the PSI on the studded tires depending on how much ice I'm dealing with or not, better grip vs rolling. Then I just hammer with the studded tires and dress for the temp, and I get where I'm going albeit a little slower.

mcours2006

You're not saying that treads are not useful on car tires, just bike tires, right?

All of my riding is on paved roads, and relatively clean. If I feel that there is a chance of rain freezing or any possibility of ice on the road I would opt for my bike with the studded tires.

tjspiel

Right. That sounds like a good plan.

Just to make things more complicated, wet surface grip is influenced by much more than just tread (or lack of it), tire compound can also make a huge difference. In fact, all out road race tires can be very grippy on wet surfaces but they tend to wear very quickly. That's why'll you see some road tires with multiple compounds.

Tires are all about compromise.


Edit: Just saw that Tarwheel said the same thing about compounds

mcours2006

Perhaps time and experience will bring me to this realization too. Today there was no snow on the road. It was dry, but very cold. I ended up taking my flat-bar road bike with the semi slicks. I checked the forecast for the afternoon commute. It's clear with no precipitation.

I know what you mean about quickly changing conditions. That's always on the back of my mind, that I might be stranded here in the afternoon with my road bike when some snow falls unexpectedly. It's the chance you take, I guess.

joeyduck

All of this. Thank you tjspiel.

Ideally I would have three wheel sets. Slicks, knobby, studded and touring. The touring and slicks might be a joint compromise like my marathon's.

modernjess

Indeed it is and it is a risk vs reward calculation that everyone has to do for themselves. Bottom line was the realization that it became way more of a time suck and an effort to deal with all the variables vs. just getting on the damn bike and ride with the studs. I crave simplicity at this point in my life and thoughtful simplicity really does equal efficiency for me in all areas.

tjspiel

I have two different sets of studded tires resulting from my experimentation with them. I've had more. I kept two because I thought I could use the lighter duty set in the beginning and ends of the season when the roads and trails tend to be not as bad. The reality is that one big snowstorm is all it takes for me to need the heavy duty set and those storms can come at any time, - even November and April.

Though in reality there are plenty of days throughout the winter that the light duty set would be more than adequate, for me it is not worth the hassle of changing. So I'm contemplating going down to just one set.

The whole idea of multiple wheelsets for multiple conditions might work well for some people, but it's just not worth the additional storage and hassle for me. I've tried it. Studded tires definitely provide some piece of mind, but if I lived in an area that typically only got the kind of patchy ice that we might see on a late October through mid November morning, I'd probably forgo them altogether.

mcours2006

+1

Leebo

I have 2 dedicated winter commuters, 1 with 700 x 35 studded tires and the other with 26 x 2.0 studded tires. The 26er usually sees more snow and tougher conditions. I just grab and go, adjusting the tire pressure for conditions.

jrickards

Spouses of the world, look aside because @joeyduck is suggesting (N+1)x(W+1) might be the way to go.

CliffordK

I think I'll avoid riding in ice or snow (I have done it in the past, and it wasn't fun) although perhaps it would be reasonable to be prepared. Most of the riding around here in the winter is just plain wet.

I bought some Origin8 Elimin8ers 25mm slick tires this spring. After riding all summer, they are getting a good flat spot.

I have a paved driveway with a good slope (max of about 17%). It gets wet, some moss, and fir needles. I'm a "Masher", and the lowest gearing on my bike is 41x19 so it is an out of saddle hard pull to get up the drive.

What I noticed with the Origin8 Elimin8er tires is that whenever the tire would break loose, it would spin a complete half crank stroke like it was on ice. A couple of lost crank strokes, and I would be walking.

I mounted a Schwalbe Marathon 25mm tire with moderate tread on the rear. It is a HEAVY tire. I still break it loose on my driveway when wet, but it continues to grab, and I only loose about a quarter crank stroke. Thus, I'm much better on my climbs.

Now, a sideways slip, and a spin may be very different in the way that the tread grips, so I can't guarantee the same results for hard cornering, but I was impressed by the differences in spins. And, it is not that I don't spin, but I get better recovery from the spins.

I've seen topics about wet and flats. It is early in the winter season, but it does seem that I am getting significantly more flats this winter than in the summer so puncture resistance is worth considering.

I will say that I had a bit of hubris when I mounted the Marathon, and got my first flat within 50 miles, due to one of the largest pieces of glass I've ever picked up intact being stuck vertically in the tire. I think I'm up to a couple hundred miles with no more flats.

I have now acquired a couple of additional tires including a GP All Seasons, Gator Hardshell, and Panaracer. Perhaps I'll try a more controlled study this winter on my driveway.

joeyduck

We can all dream

spivonious

I use slicks year-round (I don't ride in the snow or ice). No problems in the wet.

chaadster

On a very smooth wet surface, tread may decrease contact surface, however on the highly irregular surface that is the American roadway, tread can increase the contact area by putting more surface contact into creases, cracks, crevices, heaves and holes that abound.

I'll remind everyone that road tires are smooth in order to minimize rolling resistance, when in fact, for winter roads, and wet roads, you want increased rolling resistance because the tire is making friction on the road surface.

Someone upthread mentioned multi-compound tires, but didn't make the logical jump; softer compounds are used on the shoulders to enhance grip/traction where needed...yeah, you don't need much traction when rolling straight in dry, high traction conditions. However, convert the dry/hi-grip conditions to wet/reduced grip, and the physics change. How is grip enhanced? Tread compound and tread pattern.

Put it all together, and things start to make sense.

PaulRivers

Have you seen the 45nrth Xerces?

Supposedly if you inflate it at high pressure the side studs stay off the ground, only contacting the ground if you start to slip or end up in a rut. If you need the studs to be more aggressive you can run them at lower pressure and they'll always be in contact with the ground.

45NRTH


I haven't tried them though, just reading them, but it sounds a lot like what you might be looking for - a tire with no stud contact when inflated to high pressure and you're travelling straight ahead.

https://gearjunkie.com/studded-tire-winter-bike-riding
You can adjust the air pressure to change the nature of the tire. At around 75 psi, the tire rolls fast and the studs do not touch down. Let out some air, to about 35 psi, and the rubber can smoosh in more, adding traction and allowing the studs to consistently engage on the ground.

mcours2006

Hey, thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. I've learned a lot. And in light of all the information presented here I am going to put off getting treaded tires and just stick with the slicks.

On a side note, the ride home on the road bike with slicks was great! No wind. No drama. So much more fun than the studded tires yesterday.

Bike Gremlin

If we're talking about pavement, what will increase surface contact is soft tyre compound and not too much pressure inflation. That way the tyre will perfectly adapt to the road surface. Tested, proven on pavement. The only reason motor racers use thread is aquaplaning, but bicycles are immune to that (at the speeds they achieve driven by human strength).

Grip is enhanced by pressure. When going straight and accelerating/braking, higher pressure will provide higher friction. Sides, however, are used when cornering: loss of stability in case of a slip is higher when cornering, plus there is less pressure on the tyre than there is when braking when going straight, upright.

Bike Gremlin

Marathon Winters are similar(ly advertised). Using them that way.

However, I'm considering putting only one studded up front and putting a non-studded one in the rear (but still knobby, winter tyre). That way I'm guessing I'll be safe when braking and going straight, while I might have to take cornering slower on ice (but not on snow).

I know most people here advise against just one studded, but we get like 20 days of snow per year, with it being 2 days snow, then one day ice, then melts, stays dry for a week, then day or two again. But you can never tell in advance. Most we get is 10 days in a row, maybe 2 weeks but not every winter.

I have only one winter bike (room and budget). So I decided to try knobby rear for the whole winter, and get an extra front tyre so I can swap studded and regular road tyre, depending on the morning view from my window. After the winter is over, just swap the rear tyre for a road one too.

jrickards

If you're going to have only one studded tire, it should be the front because a rear slide can be recovered from in an upright position, a front tire slide more often requires wiping the snow off your pants and arms, picking up your bike and continuing.

mcours2006

This makes sense. It would be the opposite on a car, though, I think. Understeer is easier to control than oversteer on four wheels.

nelson249

I run two bikes back and forth to work. When it's decent and not much snow to deal with I ride my city bike with 700x37 Continental Winter Contacts. They are great on cold and wet pavement and even on ice they aren't too bad. When it's really dreadful the old Mongoose ATB with Schwable Ice Spiker studded tires comes out. I just keep an eye on the weather forecast as to which bike to take to work.

fietsbob

Tread texture reduces the amount of rubber on the pavement. slicks, the contact patch is still too small to hydroplane.

But OP is in Toronto , not Tampa. so Yes the Ice will put you on your Hip/upper femur, real fast. Like Body casts?

jrickards

Maybe but on the other hand, 2/3 of braking is from the front wheels so, even though it is not recommended to have different tires on a car (unless the car is designed that way like a Prowler), if you can only have one pair of studded tires on a car, it may be best to put them on the front (an additional reason could be that most cars these days are front-wheel drive).

cyccommute 

I would say that is a very valid approach.

Denver winter conditions probably vary more then anywhere else. We can go from 65F to 15F in the course of 3 hours and we can go from 3' of snow to no visible traces over the course of 3 days. To deal with those wide swings, I have multiple bikes so that I don't have to go changing tires all the time.

Although I hate to suggest Continentals (I've had far too many problems with them), the Continental Top Contact Winter II tire might be a bit better than the tires for the "not quite dry/not quite wet/kinda spotty ice and using studs is a pain" conditions you mentioned. I haven't tried them personally but I'm intrigued. Considering my hatred for Continental tires, that's saying a lot.

I've been using either mountain bike knobs or hard pack mountain bike tires like the Ritchey SpeedMax for those kind of conditions for a long time. The SpeedMax is similar to the Kendas.

Hydroplaning isn't a concern but the tires do need to interact with the surface of the road. This article mentions testing by Wheel Energy in Finland on that topic. Tread on the tire doesn't keep the bike from hydroplaning but it does provide traction on an irregular surface. A wet and/or icy surface reduces the traction of slicks even more.