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Old 04-13-05, 10:22 AM
  #26  
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In many areas, bicyclists are permitted to filter forward. It's called "SHARING THE LANE."

25 klicks was probably a little fast, but other than that the OP is not at fault. If there's room for a vehicle to pass on the right, the passenger should check back before opening the door.

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Old 04-13-05, 10:26 AM
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hey man, good to hear your alright and the suv got most of the damage. What street were you on when it happened?
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Old 04-13-05, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by billh
I'm sympathetic, but I think this is called "leaving the scene of the accident". Unfortunately, I think you were at fault. I've started waiting in line a lot more these days.
This may be leaving the scene of an accident, and he may have been partly at fault, but I would think someone who opens their door in the middle of traffic would be at least at fault as the bicyclist.
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Old 04-13-05, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by EnigManiac
That looks like you're riding between cars. That, I know, is not legal and doesn't look safe any way you look at it. I have never seen a cyclist wait behind cars if there's room to move up to the light on the right, including cops on bikes, and I've been riding for 25 years in downtown Toronto.
This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.
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Old 04-13-05, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by operator
This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.
Ignoring the not-so-subtle insult, I have been commuting for 25 years and have not had an accident during that period. You can speak of noobs and couriers all you like, but riding between cars where they change lanes and do not expect to find a vehicle is both illegal and more dangerous (in my humble opinion) than riding on the right. I have seen cops cite cyclists and motorcyclists for doing what you suggest, but never have I seen them cited for approaching the light along the right hand side. I've also very rarely had a motorist object to me moving up so that I am ahead of the right-hand turning vehicles and am now visible to all the right lane motorists.

I apologize I am not worth my salt as a bike messenger (though I did that for 2 years in the mid-80's): I choose not be reckless, irresponsible and inconsiderate as they often (not always) are. They are not the best example to use, incidentally, when it comes to matters of safety or legal conduct.

The fact was the motorist and the passenger were at fault here, not the cyclist and what Alcyon did was neither illegal nor reckless.
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Old 04-13-05, 01:53 PM
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Passing on the left at 25 km/h seems a tad dangerous to me. Wouldn't passing at 5 km/h get you to the light, but also give you time to react to opening doors and turning cars? And even if you DO hit a car, you and your bike would probably escape without a scratch. The plastic in a car door may still be dented, though.
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Old 04-13-05, 02:17 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by wasted weasel
hey man, good to hear your alright and the suv got most of the damage. What street were you on when it happened?

Thanks-I was on a sidestreet between Yonge and Mt Pleasant, heading south just north of Eglinton. I was probably 150-200 ft from the intersection, and wasn't expecting any door action. I was going too fast though.
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Old 04-13-05, 02:17 PM
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Sorry, I didn't mean it as in insult my apologies.

But I will quote the HTA where it says it is illegal to do so. (Passing right, lane splitting, whatever)

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,

(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;

(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).
In stopped traffic, unless everyone in front of you is about to make a left, you are not allowed to pass said vehicles.

Here's the source I quoted from. https://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes...0h08_e.htm#TOC

So bottomline is in most cases on your bike you are committing and offense if you pass stopped traffic. Whether they enforce it or not is a different matter.
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Old 04-13-05, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by billh
I'm sympathetic, but I think this is called "leaving the scene of the accident". Unfortunately, I think you were at fault. I've started waiting in line a lot more these days.

I think legally it works both ways. I believe in the eyes of the law I would have been judged to be passing recklessly, even if it is permitted for cyclists to pass on the right coming up to a light (not sure if it is or not). However, I am certain that a driver letting off passengers has to signal and pull into the curb to do so. I talked to a friend of mine that was involved in a nearly identical scenario a couple of years ago, only his bike got wrecked, and the car was an S class Mercedes (what is it with these luxury car drivers anyway?). Apparently the police officer sided with the cyclist (my God, did I just write that??) and the guy had to pay for the damage to his bike-and his insurance deductable for the door.

You are right, I did leave the scene, as well.
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Old 04-13-05, 02:31 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by operator
This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.

I actually do that sometimes, but I'm not sure that it is safer. At times it can be, but really you're just making yourself venerable to another type of accident. The best advice I could give myself, and perhaps other "spirited" commuters would just be to settle the *$%# down when riding in traffic. Now that it is spring I am finding myself stretching the limits of responsible bicycle operation. (but it is fun.)
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Old 04-13-05, 02:32 PM
  #36  
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Not to mention you are not supposed to open doors into traffic without checking for cyclists. But then the passenger could counter argue by saying they aren't going to be expecting cyclists to be illegally passing like that.

Up for the courts to decide I guess if it really comes down to it.
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Old 04-13-05, 08:59 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by operator
Sorry, I didn't mean it as in insult my apologies.

But I will quote the HTA where it says it is illegal to do so. (Passing right, lane splitting, whatever)



In stopped traffic, unless everyone in front of you is about to make a left, you are not allowed to pass said vehicles.

Here's the source I quoted from. https://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes...0h08_e.htm#TOC

So bottomline is in most cases on your bike you are committing and offense if you pass stopped traffic. Whether they enforce it or not is a different matter.
No offense taken. Thanks.

I have swung to the left to move around right turning vehicles and do it pretty much daily, but it always seems risky because the motorists in the left through lane don't seem to exprect me and they react sharply. If I hear someone honk at me it's when i do something like that, unexpected, whereas if I simply move up to the light and then go when it's green the right turn folks don't seem to mind. I travel along Bloor, College, Dupont, etc and none seem to be bothered, maybe because all the other cyclists are doing the same thing. But I understand moving around right turning vehicles by going into the middle
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Old 04-13-05, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
Not to mention you are not supposed to open doors into traffic without checking for cyclists. But then the passenger could counter argue by saying they aren't going to be expecting cyclists to be illegally passing like that.

Up for the courts to decide I guess if it really comes down to it.
I wonder if most common practise would prevail. I think even a dumb ass justice of the peace would figure cyclists continue going through on the right and wouldn't regard it as passing. Any turning vehicle has the onus to ensure the maneuver is safe before turning. But as for the situation at hand, since the car wasn't turning, it's a bit of a mixed bag. I still think it is the drivers fault for stopping their vehicle and discharging passengers without ensuring it was safe to do so
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Old 04-13-05, 10:00 PM
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If there's enough clearance for me not to get door'ed I will go up on the inside.

I will wait in line if I think I'll make it through the green light.

If I don't think I will make it and there's not enough clearance (not to get door'ed), I will still move up but go SLOWLY.

I would agree though that the most prudent course is to wait in line.
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Old 04-14-05, 09:51 AM
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I guess one of the ways it seems contradicting is that if you are in a bike lane along the right hand side, you are free to move up to the light, so the assumption is the curb is just like a bike lane.
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Old 04-14-05, 09:57 AM
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One of the sponsored links on this page is for a Lexus SUV, just look under genec's post and you will see it, second one underneath the SUV ad.
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Old 04-14-05, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Crazy Cyclist
One of the sponsored links on this page is for a Lexus SUV, just look under genec's post and you will see it, second one underneath the SUV ad.

Yeah, the site seems to have sort of adaptive advertizing. It looks for key words in your post, then finds the appropriate link. Sometimes it is pretty funny. Like in the do you carry a gun thread.
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Old 04-14-05, 11:26 AM
  #43  
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Yep, google ads are like that. Should've seen all the kryptonite ads in that thread discussing the vulnerabilities of the round key u-locks. Haha.
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Old 04-14-05, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
Sorry, I didn't mean it as in insult my apologies.

But I will quote the HTA where it says it is illegal to do so. (Passing right, lane splitting, whatever)

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,

(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;

(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).

In stopped traffic, unless everyone in front of you is about to make a left, you are not allowed to pass said vehicles.

Here's the source I quoted from. https://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes...0h08_e.htm#TOC

So bottomline is in most cases on your bike you are committing and offense if you pass stopped traffic. Whether they enforce it or not is a different matter.
The section of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act you quote refers to "motor vehicles" specifically. A bicycle is not a motor vehicle, according to the Act but is referred to as a "vehicle" or as a "bicycle". The argument could be made that since section 150 refers to motor vehicles, it does not apply to bicycles. Section 1 of the Highway Traffic Act will give you all the definitions of the above terms.

That said, common sense would dictate proceeding with caution at a reasonable speed when moving on the right of cars.
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Old 04-14-05, 08:16 PM
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I'm trying to imagine a car stopped on Yonge Street in the left hand lane with no turn signal, and a line of cars obediently waiting behind it because they think it's against the law to pass on the right.

Not gonna happen.

50 feet of right lane with no parked cars is enough for most drivers to try to pass the guy ahead of them even when he's doing the limit, much less stopped. Why are these laws even on the books?

besides:

b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

As in a line of cars and enough room for a line of bikes? That sounds like pretty much every road in the city to me.
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Old 04-14-05, 10:08 PM
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Oh snap, I missed the motor vehicle part of vehicle. Disregard.
Although a law cannot be disregarded even if "everyone else" does it.

There's also laws for having a bell on your bike. How many roadies do you think have a bell on their bike?
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Old 04-15-05, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by operator
Oh snap, I missed the motor vehicle part of vehicle. Disregard.
Although a law cannot be disregarded even if "everyone else" does it.

There's also laws for having a bell on your bike. How many roadies do you think have a bell on their bike?
Not just the bell, how about the Ontario requirement to have red reflective tape on the rear stays and white reflective tape on the front forks (regulation spells out minimum size too!)? How many roadies have that?
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Old 04-15-05, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by operator
Oh snap, I missed the motor vehicle part of vehicle. Disregard.
Although a law cannot be disregarded even if "everyone else" does it.
I think it has to be. Try driving a car 99.9km/hr on the 401. You'll be run over by a semi-truck in pretty short order. Law of the jungle overrides every time. I'm not gonna be a pancake to help uphold some dead-in-the-water law-abiding principle.

Originally Posted by operator
There's also laws for having a bell on your bike. How many roadies do you think have a bell on their bike
I actually know of one. But it's not me.

Bells do such a great job of grabbing the attention of the engine-revving 900-watt stereo-pumping errant drivers with the tint windows rolled-up, no ride downtown in heavy traffic would be safe without one...
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Old 04-15-05, 08:50 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by darkmother
I was pulling up to a red light to the right of traffic, at maybe 25 km/hr past to the right of a line of stationary cars.
I'm an aggressive biker and constantly bend the traffic rules. I'm always filtering up through traffic any which way I can - but I do it in what I think is a safe manner.

HOWEVER, I would never squeeze by stationary traffic at 25km/hr. That's way too fast to be travelling in the door-zone. I hate to say it, but I think you share the blame with the big-shot lawyer in the Lexus.

I repeat - 25km/hr in a door-zone! Krikey.
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Old 04-15-05, 12:06 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by operator
This is a common newb view. Any commuter or messenger worth his salt will tell you that it's safest to approach cars stopped by lane splitting, not by eeking it out on the right side of all the cars. This is where people tend to get out of their cars and is actually more dangerous.
Operator, I do exactly what you do. In fact, I did it this morning only I went through the light and merged right with traffic after the light (I signaled and had plenty of space). Then this guy who was about 10 cars behind the spot in line where I re-merged to the right blew by me honking and swerved right in front of me trying to scare me. Apparently, he shares the view that my actions were not OK. Personally, I don't give a rip as long as I don't get a ticket. If our city wants to press it, and laws are more strictly enforced, that would likely also serve to afford cyclists more car-like rights such as merging left into traffic to turn left. So until I have every right behave like a car to get what I need, screw them, I will take it anyway I can. It is one way or the other folks, either we have rights and responsibilities, or we don't. But I refuse to have responsibilities without rights.
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