why don't they sell these in the US?
#126
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
What? am I supposed to say "I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I" now?
Did 83 miles today on my Gazelle, the spring like weather had tons of bikes out on the road. Saw not only road, and mountain bikes, but also C&V, comfort, cruiser, retro classic, Dutch, utility, discount store, recumbent, fixed, and folder. lots of folks enjoying the day riding where they shouldn't be able to according to bike snobs, and know-it-alls.
Did 83 miles today on my Gazelle, the spring like weather had tons of bikes out on the road. Saw not only road, and mountain bikes, but also C&V, comfort, cruiser, retro classic, Dutch, utility, discount store, recumbent, fixed, and folder. lots of folks enjoying the day riding where they shouldn't be able to according to bike snobs, and know-it-alls.
#127
covered in cat fur
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Willkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 614
Bikes: Papillionaire Sommer, '85 Schwinn World Tourist, 2014 Windsor Kensington 8, SixThreeZero SS Cruiser
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Mostly correct, however the one speed cruisers with full fenders, chainguard, kickstand for $99-$129 would probably work well enough for most real world commuters and casual cyclists. I believe derailleur models with at least 5 gears are also available in similar dress at some big box outlets. Add a rack or basket and they would be good to go for someone looking for inexpensive reliable transportation for typical bicycle commuting purposes; even if long distance, mountain climbing, blizzard enduring BF commuters can't abide such a thought.
I ride in blizzards. And here is proof...
This was taken at the beginning of the last big snowstorm we had here. I was on my way to work. Lighting wasn't good enough on the way home. It's already paid for itself in saved gas money.
#128
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 1,206
Bikes: Jamis Quest Comp
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I'm bored at work: prepare for lots of words.
I dunno, I wouldn't mind dyno lights, fenders, and a kickstand. IGH's have their high points, too. If you don't get flats often.
But absolutely, a commuter bike is a bike you commute on. Ride what you enjoy.
So many regular riders swap out saddles, I dunno if that being uncomfortable is something to be criticized. Especially since people don't all seem to settle on the same saddle.
I ride a road bike with a rack in normal or gym clothes all the time.
A huge proportion of the bikes I see on MUPs(other than bike share stuff) are Electra Townie's, or stuff that with obvious resemblance to bike share bikes. And that's with the MUP having a MTB trail off of it, and good road cycling at the end of it.
I've got mild carpal tunnel and tendinitis in my hands. If I had to stick to one hand position, I couldn't ride more than 30-40 minutes at a time. With drop bars I can do 60-80 miles at a time, with absolutely no issues. Hell, sometimes I do it after work.
When I was looking this time last year I found a fair number of 3/7/8 IGH bikes with a relaxed/cruiser geometry, and eyelets for racks and fenders.
To give Swift some credit, she's improved her singing a lot, and she's much better at engaging her audience to put on a show than Fleming(Yes, I've seen both). Swift is also a great songwriter. Plus, c'mon, opera to pop? Not a fair comparison in potential audience.
It is a valid point though-look at how many great artists(across all mediums-performers, composers, writers, visual arts) have died paupers.
I think it's worth noting, that with decent infrastructure/route planning, it's faster for me to ride than it is to take a bus the 12 miles to work. Before I moved when it was 17/18 and two buses, it was still faster. That's just comparing travel time, not time spent waiting for buses, too.
Admittedly, even though I was pushing 300lbs when I got a bike last year and started commuting-I was a pretty quick cross country runner in high school, and grew up mtb'ing in Colorado with my dad, who was a cat 1 roadie in another life. So even fat and as far away from fit as you can be-I was more willing to approach this commute than a lot of people, not beings cared of miles or time spent in the heat. There's also a gym right across the street from my workplace with free towel service, so still showing up to work looking respectable is quite easy.
Eh, I do 4. It's not such a big deal. Admittedly, I tend to do my grocery shopping right after work, and just cart it all back to my apartment(12 miles). Of course if I didn't commute 3x farther(before I tack on extra miles, which I often do), I'd probably find it a lot more onerous.
...you know how some counties have mandatory military service? We should have mandatory bike riding, no motorized vehicles for three years. More health, less pollution, people caring about intelligent urban planning more, etc etc-win win win win win win win.
I'd like a center stand for when I'm loading up groceries, but don't miss a kickstand.
@katsrevenge when I was only riding 5 miles, I rode something very similar (jamis hudson), it was a great bike. I eventually found it inadequate as my needs/wants/expectations of a bike grew. But it's still a great bike.
But absolutely, a commuter bike is a bike you commute on. Ride what you enjoy.
Great point.
I do think that a big issue is that most people in the U.S. end up with bikes that are not practical for daily transportation. They're not easy to ride for normal trips in normal clothes. They have an exposed chain, they're uncomfortable (leaning forward, saddle, etc.), unable to easily carry a purse or jacket, and no kickstand. These are the bikes that are predominant in LBS's and Wal-Mart. I think too that there's a macho element for some folks who will choose something that looks like a road or mountain bike even if good city bikes are available and would be better for their purposes.
I do think that a big issue is that most people in the U.S. end up with bikes that are not practical for daily transportation. They're not easy to ride for normal trips in normal clothes. They have an exposed chain, they're uncomfortable (leaning forward, saddle, etc.), unable to easily carry a purse or jacket, and no kickstand. These are the bikes that are predominant in LBS's and Wal-Mart. I think too that there's a macho element for some folks who will choose something that looks like a road or mountain bike even if good city bikes are available and would be better for their purposes.
So many regular riders swap out saddles, I dunno if that being uncomfortable is something to be criticized. Especially since people don't all seem to settle on the same saddle.
I ride a road bike with a rack in normal or gym clothes all the time.
A huge proportion of the bikes I see on MUPs(other than bike share stuff) are Electra Townie's, or stuff that with obvious resemblance to bike share bikes. And that's with the MUP having a MTB trail off of it, and good road cycling at the end of it.
It is a valid point though-look at how many great artists(across all mediums-performers, composers, writers, visual arts) have died paupers.
Right on the money when discussing bike commuting and applies almost everywhere. The people who are willing tobicycle commute very long distances (greater than maybe 15 miles each way) or lots of steep hills are a miniscule number of people. Yes there are some cyclists who do and this list attracts a relatively high number of such unrepresentative bicyclists. But don't fool yourself into thinking that the enthusiast commuters cycling up and down steep hills and mucho miles everyday found posting their exploits on BF or similar lists are typical bicycling commuters.
Admittedly, even though I was pushing 300lbs when I got a bike last year and started commuting-I was a pretty quick cross country runner in high school, and grew up mtb'ing in Colorado with my dad, who was a cat 1 roadie in another life. So even fat and as far away from fit as you can be-I was more willing to approach this commute than a lot of people, not beings cared of miles or time spent in the heat. There's also a gym right across the street from my workplace with free towel service, so still showing up to work looking respectable is quite easy.
I think that next to lack of infrastructure and perhaps even a bigger issue than lack of infrastructure is the big-boxing of so many things, especially grocery stores. In urban and suburban areas they use to almost always be within 2 or 3 miles of any house (approx 5 mile spacing max). Today they are reducing the number of neighborhood stores and going with big-box groceries that are 5 to 7 or more miles away (approx 10 to 14 mile spacing). Riding 2 miles to a local grocery is very doable, 5 to 7 miles not so practical.
...you know how some counties have mandatory military service? We should have mandatory bike riding, no motorized vehicles for three years. More health, less pollution, people caring about intelligent urban planning more, etc etc-win win win win win win win.
I'd like a center stand for when I'm loading up groceries, but don't miss a kickstand.
@katsrevenge when I was only riding 5 miles, I rode something very similar (jamis hudson), it was a great bike. I eventually found it inadequate as my needs/wants/expectations of a bike grew. But it's still a great bike.
Last edited by Sullalto; 02-15-15 at 09:49 PM.
Likes For Sullalto:
#129
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Right, sales volume is sometimes a very poor indicator of quality. Look at the crap on TV news. And still so many people rely on it and think it's news.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#130
covered in cat fur
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Willkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 614
Bikes: Papillionaire Sommer, '85 Schwinn World Tourist, 2014 Windsor Kensington 8, SixThreeZero SS Cruiser
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
@katsrevenge when I was only riding 5 miles, I rode something very similar (jamis hudson), it was a great bike. I eventually found it inadequate as my needs/wants/expectations of a bike grew. But it's still a great bike.
I do have lighter/nicer bikes. I just don't want them getting all salty! And...thinner tires and snow bother me.
#131
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
421 Posts
I've got mild carpal tunnel and tendinitis in my hands. If I had to stick to one hand position, I couldn't ride more than 30-40 minutes at a time. With drop bars I can do 60-80 miles at a time, with absolutely no issues. Hell, sometimes I do it after work.
#132
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 1,206
Bikes: Jamis Quest Comp
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I don't want to quibble, but I'm curious as to the issue with IGH's. Mine's an old Sturmey, and it's easy to fix a flat while on the road. Now, I use upright bars, so I can just flip the bike upside down to service a wheel.
Definitely, health and ergonomics are vital considerations. My issue is the opposite, needing to keep my neck relatively straight, so I rely on upright bars. Straight bars pound the hell out of my wrists, and I see why there are attachments for them, that provide additional hand positions. If it weren't for my neck, I'm sure I'd go back to drops.
Definitely, health and ergonomics are vital considerations. My issue is the opposite, needing to keep my neck relatively straight, so I rely on upright bars. Straight bars pound the hell out of my wrists, and I see why there are attachments for them, that provide additional hand positions. If it weren't for my neck, I'm sure I'd go back to drops.
I had to take the wheel out though-fenders didn't allow me to change the tube with the wheel still bolted in. Again, maybe user error-it was my first bike as an adult.
I sure do miss not being able to shift while stopped sometimes though.
Not gonna lie, even with double wrapped bar tape and gloves-SOMETIMES I still mess the flat bar ergonomic grips. If I had a bit more money/time/software, I'd explore 3d printing or CNC machining a similar structure that would bolt/glue to drop bars. Which would then go under the bar tape.
Both my commute and the stores are *mostly* around 5 miles from home. It's great for that distance. Last year I had a very similar cruiser I took far further without too much trouble. Had a better saddle on that one; this is just the stock saddle. It's fine for a 5 mile ride.
I do have lighter/nicer bikes. I just don't want them getting all salty! And...thinner tires and snow bother me.
I do have lighter/nicer bikes. I just don't want them getting all salty! And...thinner tires and snow bother me.
Yeah, I used to take mine further(8-17 miles), but I just plain didn't enjoy it as much past 7-8 miles. I use the same saddle(brooks imperial b 17) on the old cruiser(no longer have; frame crack-spent extra $ to get a different bike instead of a straight warranty replacement) as the replacement road bike.
I don't have to worry about winter though. It's 42 right now, and everybody's complaining. I'm sure actual winter weather effects bike choice.
#133
Senior Member
May I ask what you didn't like about it? Just curious.
#134
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NA
Posts: 4,267
Bikes: NA
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
*the belt drive had annoyingly loud clicking/whirring sounds.
*the drive train felt significantly more sluggish than a comparable derailleur+chain system.
*the roller brakes did not have enough stopping power for my commute.
*the drive train felt significantly more sluggish than a comparable derailleur+chain system.
*the roller brakes did not have enough stopping power for my commute.
#135
Senior Member
I see. It sounds like there is a high price to be paid for ease of maintenance. Thank you.
#136
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times
in
1,433 Posts
I worked at a bike shop briefly in summer of 2011, and there was some model Trek upright bike with a Shimano 7 speed hub. I don't remember if it had a chain or a belt. The drivetrain felt very friction-free. I've ridden a belt-driven bike and didn't notice anything bad about it. Was it possible the belt was misaligned or something?
I can feel a little friction in first gear in an old AW hub, but not enough to make it a deal breaker. My guess is modern IGHs are even better than that.
As for ease of roadside repairs, it depends on how good you are. An old English 3-speed is easy for me but not for everyone. If I had a bike with a full chaincase, though, I would put a very heavy tire on the rear, because then the job gets pretty bad.
I can feel a little friction in first gear in an old AW hub, but not enough to make it a deal breaker. My guess is modern IGHs are even better than that.
As for ease of roadside repairs, it depends on how good you are. An old English 3-speed is easy for me but not for everyone. If I had a bike with a full chaincase, though, I would put a very heavy tire on the rear, because then the job gets pretty bad.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#137
Senior Member
I have to say that I'm not a big fan of changing a rear tube or tire on any IGH (and I'm not too great at patching tubes so did once end up replacing a rear tube that many people would have successfully patched). Good mechanics can change a rear tube or tire in about 10 minutes or patch a tube in 5. OTOH, only having to fix a flat every 5 or 10 years has it's advantages.
#138
Senior Member
Not the average person though. If my wife is cooking dinner and needs some stuff from the store she'll ride her bicycle if it's 2 miles but if what she needs is 4 or 5 miles away then she'll often take her car unless it's nice weather and she's got plenty of extra time.
#139
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
I think one thing that has worked against Gates belt drives is that they left a bad first impression that has been communicated far and wide. The new "centertrack" design has fixed a lot of problems with the earlier revisions.
#140
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 1,206
Bikes: Jamis Quest Comp
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
With a proper (Dutch) upright there should be little to no pressure on your hands so no need for multiple positions.
Not the average person though. If my wife is cooking dinner and needs some stuff from the store she'll ride her bicycle if it's 2 miles but if what she needs is 4 or 5 miles away then she'll often take her car unless it's nice weather and she's got plenty of extra time.
Not the average person though. If my wife is cooking dinner and needs some stuff from the store she'll ride her bicycle if it's 2 miles but if what she needs is 4 or 5 miles away then she'll often take her car unless it's nice weather and she's got plenty of extra time.
I don't mind that trip to the grocery store, but I live alone, so meals aren't really time sensitive. That said, I do tend to shop immediately after work-at the grocery store 1/4 mile away, then just cart everything home th e normal commute length(12 miles if I don't tack on more for fun).
#141
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
With our spring like weather there are gobs of bikes out, and I noticed that comfort bikes are starting to give mountain bikes a run for their money in terms of popularity with casual cyclists of all ages and gender. One thing that really stood out is how high the bars are on some of them, many making my Gazelle look like it has drops in comparison.
#142
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
I found otherwise with a Jamis Hudson. Which I didn't enjoy on rides longer than, I dunno, 6-8 miles. It was great for under that, though.
I don't mind that trip to the grocery store, but I live alone, so meals aren't really time sensitive. That said, I do tend to shop immediately after work-at the grocery store 1/4 mile away, then just cart everything home th e normal commute length(12 miles if I don't tack on more for fun).
I don't mind that trip to the grocery store, but I live alone, so meals aren't really time sensitive. That said, I do tend to shop immediately after work-at the grocery store 1/4 mile away, then just cart everything home th e normal commute length(12 miles if I don't tack on more for fun).
#143
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 1,206
Bikes: Jamis Quest Comp
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I eventually used a 450mm seatpost and had the seat just about level with the bars, @kickstart .
edit: I should've paid more attention to the picture, mine was an IGH and a rigid front fork. Oh well, not relevant.
edit: I should've paid more attention to the picture, mine was an IGH and a rigid front fork. Oh well, not relevant.
#144
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
421 Posts
In a sense, a bike is an adaptation of our bodies to the environment, and we all have different bodies, so we end up with different ways of fitting our bikes.
#145
Senior Member
I'd guess that there's considerable difference in the geometry of a Dutchie and that Jamis. Looks like you have to lean forward a bit on the Jamis. On proper Dutch bikes your assbone, back, neck, and head are aligned, your hands rest on the handlebars but not really weight bearing, and when you pedal you don't feel any backwards force (a common problem on many comfort & leisure bikes). I've not found a comfort, leisure, beach, bikeshare, or hybrid that is very comfortable for very long. I've ridden Dutch bikes around all day in complete comfort.
#146
covered in cat fur
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Willkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 614
Bikes: Papillionaire Sommer, '85 Schwinn World Tourist, 2014 Windsor Kensington 8, SixThreeZero SS Cruiser
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yeah, I used to take mine further(8-17 miles), but I just plain didn't enjoy it as much past 7-8 miles. I use the same saddle(brooks imperial b 17) on the old cruiser(no longer have; frame crack-spent extra $ to get a different bike instead of a straight warranty replacement) as the replacement road bike.
I don't have to worry about winter though. It's 42 right now, and everybody's complaining. I'm sure actual winter weather effects bike choice.
Hate you. LOL It's in the negatives right now and half the water pipes in my house (as well as my toes) are frozen! Stupid, annoying winter!
I'd guess that there's considerable difference in the geometry of a Dutchie and that Jamis. Looks like you have to lean forward a bit on the Jamis. On proper Dutch bikes your assbone, back, neck, and head are aligned, your hands rest on the handlebars but not really weight bearing, and when you pedal you don't feel any backwards force (a common problem on many comfort & leisure bikes). I've not found a comfort, leisure, beach, bikeshare, or hybrid that is very comfortable for very long. I've ridden Dutch bikes around all day in complete comfort.
I did switch the handle bars to North Road style on mine as I'm short and it feels more comfortable.
#147
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
421 Posts
Here's my Schwinn:
Dutch enough? It was just awful to ride that way. Honking up steep hills was the worst part. I lowered the bars. Now it's much better. Again, my point is not to dismiss Dutch bikes, but just to re-iterate that our bodies are all different.
Dutch enough? It was just awful to ride that way. Honking up steep hills was the worst part. I lowered the bars. Now it's much better. Again, my point is not to dismiss Dutch bikes, but just to re-iterate that our bodies are all different.
Last edited by Gresp15C; 12-10-16 at 08:42 AM.
#149
covered in cat fur
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Willkes-Barre, PA
Posts: 614
Bikes: Papillionaire Sommer, '85 Schwinn World Tourist, 2014 Windsor Kensington 8, SixThreeZero SS Cruiser
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts