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Commuter Bike Frame Material

Old 03-09-15, 01:37 PM
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Commuter Bike Frame Material

OK, so I've been commuting 2 or 3 days a week, year-round, for almost 2 years now. I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with it. Currently riding an old (circa 1978) Trek sport touring bike. I'd like to replace it with a dedicated commuter, and am trying to decide whether to go SS or Ti tubing. Does anyone have recommendations? If so, I'd love to hear why.

If I went with SS, I'd probably get a local framebuilder (the same one who built up my current road bike) to build it to fit; with Ti, I'm leaning to sending the measurements from my current road bike to Moots or Seven, or someone similar.

I'm leaning toward theses two materials for a number of reasons, though the only frame material I'm just dead set against is Al (after riding a C'dale oversize Al frame, I vowed I'd never get an aluminum frame - I see no good reason for changing my mind). I'd consider carbon, but I want this frame to last 20+ years (I bought the Trek new, so yes, I do keep and ride my bikes that long), even though (hopefully) I may not be working that long. I'd even consider steel bike, if it weren't for the issues with scratches, paint chips, etc. (one of the advantages of Ti and SS is the ability to get a brushed finish that can be touched up if necessary).

My current commute is 2 or 3 days a week (unless I'm traveling for work), depending on whether I have Friday off. This likely will increase to 3 to 4 days a week within the next year or so. Round trip is about 30 miles, mostly along a MUP that goes along a river. Pretty flat, except a couple of hundred feet of descending (on the way to work) or climbing (on the way home) to get from the house to the MUP. I'd have the bike fitted with rack and fender mounts, and "climbing gears" so I could also use it for "hilly" rides on the weekend. Still contemplating details like disc brakes, dynamo front hub, Di2/EPS, etc.

BTW, I myself have what could be called "compact geometry", which is one of the reasons I 'm leaning toward replacing the Trek (even at 19-3/4", it's always been, just a bit too big), and I'm running between 140-145 lb (depending on whether I've been good or not).

I'd welcome any thoughts (with the exception of recommending that I reconsider aluminum - not gonna happen).
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Old 03-09-15, 01:51 PM
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Well, if you have the money and you want to spend it all on a bike, go custom Ti. Get what would make you happy. If it were me, I would go steel (because, budgets matter a lot to me) and wouldn't go custom. Bikes are very adjustable to different body proportions and you could save a couple thousand dollars by changing the stem longer or shorter, dialing in your ideal saddle height/angle/position on the rails and if you had to, getting longer or shorter crank arms. But that is just me. I wish I had over 8k to get a Moots (standard sized), because I really like how they look and how I hear they perform. The problem I see having with a custom bike is having difficulty selling it, or finding someone to even give it away to when I no longer needed it (ya know, when I am in my grave).

It's all up to you, and your budget though. Someone has to have all the nice, shiny new things!
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Old 03-09-15, 02:38 PM
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Got a place to park your Bike in Your IT cubicle?
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Old 03-09-15, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KenshiBiker
Currently riding an old (circa 1978) Trek sport touring bike.
Oh, just a young pup.
It surely has a few more good years in it.
Up until about Feb 1 of this year, I was riding a Colnago Super that I bought used in 82, but probably is a 68 or 69 model.

My "New" bike is based on a used Titanium frame that I picked up for cheap. It is actually a 26" MTB frame that I built up with 700c wheels. The frame is short (height) and long (length), and wide (lots of rear tire clearance). It is a bit odd looking, but the price was right, and it turns out to be a very sweet ride. The total investment was about $400 for the complete bike.



Anyway, I love the idea of no paint, and just wipe the crud off of the frame. I'm still getting used to the brifters. I still have a little more tinkering to get it to where I'd like it.

How you use the bike is up to you. I'm of the opinion to use and enjoy your nice bike, and leave the junker in the garage. But if you have a $2000 to $3000 bike, then security does become an issue, although I suppose with inflation, my old Colnago might be a $1000 equivalent bike, and it has had good use.

Anyway, a few thoughts.
You talked about a 20 year lifespan. Not unreasonable.
Depreciate a $2000 bike over 20 years and your annual outlay is about the same as a good set of tires.
On the other hand, you could buy 3 nice $700 bikes during the same period, so you could go with basic steel, then upgrade as needed, or rust becomes intractable, or perhaps aluminum develops stress fractures????
The other thing is that a frame can last a good long time. So one can always put fancy new parts to breathe new life into a 20 yr old bike. Some things may still be obsolete, but it can get some of the latest gadgets. So, if you buy a $1500 frame, you can keep upgrading it with whatever is new (keeping in mind that some things like dropout spacing, or head tube sizes, or even brake selection may be more limited).

Don't completely ignore aluminum. Also consider something like the Trek 2200 with an aluminum frame an CF seat stays.
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Old 03-09-15, 04:49 PM
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you might find that in small sizes that Ti is going to be too stiff. For a larger size, I think it might be superior for a commuter.

I don't know if you can find a stock bike that fits, but aluminum is a pretty good material, and CDale used to make their bikes too stiff and people have learned from that.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:07 PM
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If you have the option of a local builder. Go with that! It's just cool to sit down with someone and talk about what you want and have them build you a bike versus getting something that rolls off a factory in Taiwan. That's always been my hesitation with Titanium. The frame cost so much even if it is totally factory made that it's only a bit more to get a fully handbuilt bike.

If you do decide you prefer titanium you could also consider Sage Cycles Home - Sage Cycles - Titanium Bicycle Frames, Portland, Oregon they are nice looking bikes.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I don't know if you can find a stock bike that fits, but aluminum is a pretty good material, and CDale used to make their bikes too stiff and people have learned from that.
Vitus was less stiff.

But manufactures are now putting a lot of effort into finding just the right amount of flex.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
you might find that in small sizes that Ti is going to be too stiff.
He's having it custom made. The builder can make it however stiff or compliant as the buyer wants.
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Old 03-09-15, 05:58 PM
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There isn't a big difference in the price of tubing between Titanium and Stainless, especially if you add lugs to the stainless build. I assume the welding is a bit trickier though.
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Old 03-09-15, 06:05 PM
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If I have a commuter custom made, it'll be titanium. What I like about running errands on my Litespeed is that I don't worry about leaving paint behind or it getting scratched up parked in a rack. One night I was locked in the cemetery and lifting it over the black iron fence, I scratched the top tube big time. Buffed right out with a Scotchbrite when I got home. I was so glad I had the Ti bike that night.

I've also found that brushed Ti is pretty much invisible to the criminal element around here. When riding one of my painted bikes to work, I'm routinely offered a few bags by cornerboys. (As in, "Nice bike. I'll give you five bags for it.") When I ride by on the Litespeed, nuthin'.

I also commute year 'round, so the fact it won't corrode is a plus.

Stainless shares these qualities--for the most part. Certain stainless tubesets require paint for full corrosion resistance. Most do not, and are fine unpainted.
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Old 03-09-15, 06:05 PM
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I'd consider carbon, but I want this frame to last 20+ years
Why would this desire rule out carbon?

It may be less crash resistant than metal but in terms of fatigue resistance -- crabon beats any metal frame. I personally switched to carbon because I got sick of wearing out metal frames.

I should also note that carbon is the most repairable frame material and crash resistant crabon frames are available:

https://calfeedesign.com/products/luna/

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Old 03-09-15, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel

It may be less crash resistant than metal but in terms of fatigue resistance -- crabon beats any metal frame. I personally switched to carbon because I got sick of wearing out metal frames.
You mean carbon frames last longer then steel ??. How exactly did you wear out a steel frame ??..There are many steel frames out there which are 30-40 years old and still very solid.
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Old 03-09-15, 07:09 PM
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Metallurgy wise, if a steel frame is under built it'll wear out. Technically. No idea how realistic it is.
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Old 03-09-15, 08:00 PM
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I think people do occasionally crack steel frames, but it is rare. Perhaps unsightly rust, as well as paint chips/scratches are a bigger issue. Road Salt?

More common one will find dents in the paper-thin steel tubing, many of which have no structural implications. On the other hand, what might be a small dent in steel could be an expensive CF repair.

Steel (or Titanium or Aluminum) can be repaired including roadside repairs. The problem is that very few frames justify the expense of a tube replacement or such, although welding can be cheap if one finds a way to get it done. And like CF, a repaired frame should always be considered "repaired", even if it is as good as new.
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Old 03-09-15, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
You mean carbon frames last longer then steel ??. How exactly did you wear out a steel frame ??..There are many steel frames out there which are 30-40 years old and still very solid.
You wear them out by riding them. My Colnago, which I had for about 10 years, cracked near the bottom bracket. Wasn't worth it to fix it. Metal fatigues over time. Carbon bikes are built much heavier near the bottom bracket so there's less flexing going on.
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Old 03-09-15, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
You wear them out by riding them. My Colnago, which I had for about 10 years, cracked near the bottom bracket. Wasn't worth it to fix it. Metal fatigues over time. Carbon bikes are built much heavier near the bottom bracket so there's less flexing going on.
What kind of Colnago?

My Colnago Super is nearly 50 years old, and has lots of miles, probably 30 to 50K, give or take a few. Of course there are many more bikes with more miles, or more years, but a steel frame commuter can do well for quite a while. If you're doing 200K or more... then it is time for a new bike.

I did buy a Colnago BiTitan with a cracked frame, but perhaps that was as much of a design flaw as a problem with the titanium.
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Old 03-10-15, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
Why would this desire rule out carbon?

It may be less crash resistant than metal but in terms of fatigue resistance -- crabon beats any metal frame. I personally switched to carbon because I got sick of wearing out metal frames.

I should also note that carbon is the most repairable frame material and crash resistant crabon frames are available:

https://calfeedesign.com/products/luna/
Fatigue? Wearing out frames? What planet are you on? I think I know what metal fatigue. I haven't seen any metal bike frames die of fatigue, at least not steel.
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Old 03-10-15, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tsl
He's having it custom made. The builder can make it however stiff or compliant as the buyer wants.
builders don't really control the availability of material. Ti builders have been known to put a tube on a lathe and remove material, but stiffness is still an issue on a small frame because of the tube sizes
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Old 03-10-15, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider
Fatigue? Wearing out frames? What planet are you on? I think I know what metal fatigue. I haven't seen any metal bike frames die of fatigue, at least not steel.
I don't know what else to attribute this to other than fatigue:

This was from a Colnago classic purchased in 2000 with between 30 and 50,000km. I've seen other steel frames break around the BB shell as well.
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Old 03-10-15, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
You mean carbon frames last longer then steel ??. How exactly did you wear out a steel frame ??..There are many steel frames out there which are 30-40 years old and still very solid.
I've cracked 2 steel bikes at the bottom bracket. 4 out of 5 of my metal frame failures occurred at the BB.
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Old 03-10-15, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider
Fatigue? Wearing out frames? What planet are you on? I think I know what metal fatigue. I haven't seen any metal bike frames die of fatigue, at least not steel.
LOL!
I killed two trek frames under warranty in 3 years. Trek actually gave me a free carbon frame with the stipulation that this frame would no longer be under warranty. The warranty rep assured me that I would never wear out this frame via use. (Crashing on the other hand...)
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Old 03-10-15, 09:02 AM
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Forgive me. It's true, some frames fail from fatigue, but it's pretty unusual overall. @spare_wheel, how have you managed to do it more than once?
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Old 03-10-15, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider
Forgive me. It's true, some frames fail from fatigue, but it's pretty unusual overall. @spare_wheel, how have you managed to do it more than once?
My LBS's nickname for me was "the bike destroyer". I tend to ride as fast as I can and pay little attention to bad pavement. For example, on my commute home I often take 6 deep road ruts at 25+ (I get a bit of air). I also bunny hop a fair amount.
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Old 03-10-15, 09:11 AM
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With a commuter, I worry about whether bike bling will cause bike theft. A ti frame would be an awesome ride for commuting, but will it get stolen from outside the grocery store or restaurant on your way home? You might be able to treat yourself to a ti frame with less risk by buying used.

I love my ti frame, it's easy to keep clean and has a great ride quality. But I'm always fearful anytime I have to lock it up outdoors.
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Old 03-10-15, 09:13 AM
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OK, as I suspected, you don't ride as most people do. Or, to put it differently, you present more stresses to your frame than it's designed to withstand. The vast majority of people who ride bikes don't need to worry about metal fatigue.

(And why is it that my fingers want to spell the word "fatique" (with a 'Q'), even though I know better. I have to correct it every time I type it?)
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