stevage

So, another 120ks off road on my Tricross Sport, and my hands are pretty sore. That, and some of the really steep downhills I simply couldn't stop using the cross levers. I've got the current 2009 cantilevers.

Question: Is there anything I can do to get more braking power with less finger strain? Longer cross levers?

The obvious solution is disk brakes, I guess. I actually have a front disk on "my" 2008 tricross, but it's now the gf's (and she likes the disk brake!) so I can't necessarily just borrow it every time I want to go off road. Especially if she's coming too. And of course the setup is all different - saddle height and location, stem etc.

Thing is, I love riding it on flat off road, or even fairly technical singletrack - it just sucks for steep descents. Sometimes I resort to using the drop bars for the extra leverage, but then the weight distribution is worse and I'm always on the edge of going over the bars.

Any tips?

Steve

Andy_K 

I was disappointed in the braking power on my Kona Jake with its Avid Shorty 4's. Changing out the brake pads helped a little, but it still wasn't great. I used to go into the LBS and share ideas I'd read on the internet with them, and they'd respond by looking at me like I was an idiot. Finally, I went back to the internet and found the parts I needed and did it myself. Here's what I got:



It's a Tektro Z-Link wire, size S. I had tried talking to the LBS guys about a shorter link wire, but they kept telling me that the brakes were designed for a single length and I should use that. Nevermind that the actual manual from Avid says it comes with two lengths and that if you aren't happy with the longer one, you should use the shorter one.

The link wire that I had with my Avid's originally was size A (73 mm), and switching to size S (63 mm) made a huge difference in braking power. I also switched from black Kool Stop mountain pads to Kool Stop tectonics, but I'm not sure how much difference there was from that.

With this configuration and the brakes pulled in so tight I have trouble unhooking the quick release, I get pretty good braking power. I don't know if it would be as much as you would want for downhill offroad, but it's a lot better than it was.

AndrewP

I just switched the brakes on my son's 94 Giant Squadron from Shimanos with post brake pads to modern Avid Shorty 4s. The Shorty 4s came with 3 different length straddle links - I put on the middle length. He said the brakes were a lot more powerful than the old Shimanos. However this may have just been due to the easier adjustment.

Cynikal 

Tektro 720's are a cheap upgrade.

kennykaos

i have tektro onyx's and ive had no complaints with them, good stopping power down hill and no brake squeal. they're not the nicest but they're cheap and worth the money in my opinion.

meanwhile

Beside the upgrades suggested, you could try high end pads like Kool Stops. And - a fairly radical modification - consider switching the bars to Salsa Bell Laps (flared offroad drop bars) and placing them a bit higher, so that you ride permanently in the drops but balance correctly there. Read about this before you decide that I'm mad...

dwr1961

Kind of expensive, but at least another option...

https://www.paulcomp.com/brakebooster.html

stevage

Thanks for the tips everyone - Andy K's shorter link wire solution looks like a cheap place to start. That piece looks a lot like what's already on the bike, but I'll have to check. Also, it already has Koolstop pads, but not sure which model.

I guess also maybe rotating the handlebar up to make the drops more useful is another solution. I don't want to do anything too drastic because I mostly use the bike onroad...

Steve

nitropowered

A shorter link cable will give you more power, less modulation and less pad clearance. Rather than using those fixed length link wires, get one that is a brake line and straddle. This way you can fine tune the length.

stevage

>get one that is a brake line and straddle

Can you elaborate on that? Is the difference how the cable attaches to the Y joint?

(more power, less modulation and less pad clearance might be a fair trade off for me at this point. my 08 tricross originally came with vbrakes that were too far to that extreme - pad clearance was a real pain in the arse, even on road. maybe there's a happy medium)

Steve

nitropowered

like this

serac

I wasn't satisfied with my Avid Shortys and Shimano STI shifters either. I had to set them up very close to the rim in order to get any kind of reasonable braking for the road. Cantis can be quite powerful with the right levers, but brifters aren't the right ones. I remember coming down a lo-o-o-o-ng steep road with switchbacks in the rain and having to use my cross levers. My hands were getting sore from braking.

I recently bought some Tektro CR 720 cantis and they ROCK. I can now have A LOT of mud clearance and good power. They are very easy to set up and tolerant of sloppy straddle wire lengths, etc. No longer do my levers bottom out and no longer do I find myself wanting more power.

Highly recommended.

bluenote157

since you guys are on the topic of stopping power and cantis.. i have a tektro 720 in the front and a oryx in the back. I want to change the pads to koolstops. I've heard the salmons are awesome regardless of wet/dry conditions but probably wear quicker. Couple of questions:

Anyone use the dual compound ones?
Anyone use salmon in the front, dual compound in the back?
What is the advantage/disadvantage of using thinline ones over the mtn linear ones?

thanks and sorry for the semi-hi-jacking of this thread.

kawasakiguy37

I hated my avids, so I upgraded the front to a tekro cr720. I used an older style cable hanger (like the one pictured above) and it self centers fine. Its also much easier to adjust the mechanical advantage (just move the cable hanger up and down), which is really nice. Overall way worth what I paid for them, as my front end stops on a dime now with minimal shudder and the avid on the back is plenty strong enough for that. If anything, ditch the link wire and go back to the tried and true system with a normal style cable hanger.

oldpedalpusher

If you pull the shoes on their rods away from the cantilever arms first... before you tighten them down...



...you will get OODLES of stopping leverage.


I recently installed some new Shimano Altus cantilevers on my 20 year old Fisher MTB with the shoes right next to the arms and they hardly had any stopping leverage. I discovered this was because the arms were already past the point of their best mechanical advantage in relationship to the cable harness. Pulling the brake levers to stop only put the arms closer to the rim diminishing the mechanical advantage even more.

...but increasing the shoe's distance from the arms made a WORLD of difference. Now I can lock the wheels anytime... even with little ittybitty two finger levers.


Greg

justinb

What's most important in that picture, I believe, is that the arms are parallel to the fork blades. This is the point of greatest mech. advantage referenced by opp. No matter which cantis i'm using (CR720's, old shimanos, new shimanos, shortys, cane creeks), I find that setting them up so that rim contact is made when the arm is parallel to the fork blade yields the most pleasing performance.

cerewa

I use salmon in the front, and inexpensive black (not kool stop) pads in the back. I have enough stopping power in all conditions. My salmon pads have been good for daily use for 2 years, and they still have another year's worth of use left in 'em.

Let me recommend something you can do if you want instead of dual compound levers - just mix and match - buy a pair of good cheap black pads and a pair of salmon pads, and use red on the one side, black on the other side, on each brake. The only issue is if you don't like the look.

Cynikal 

I have had good luck with the dual compounds. No complaints here.

Andy_K 

That makes sense, but as far as I know you don't really have that kind of option with the Avid Shortys, apart from proper selection of which washers from the linear pull brake shoes to put where, which doesn't yield nearly as much adjustment as your picture shows. Is there some trick here I don't know about?

meanwhile

This is an exceptionally good thread! If there's some sort of sticky with a list of best ever threads then it has my vote.

stevage

Hmm, very very interesting. Might be time I had a chat with the LBS. Even after a service I find I can barely get a skid going on the back brake. Bleh.

Plus, today I rode my 2008 tricross, set up for my gf but with disk brake - damn, that's the stopping power I want. Accidentally did a stoppy, with a basket on the back! I swear that ought to be possible with cantis though.

oldpedalpusher

Are these your Avids?



Looks like you could simply swap the outside thicker brake shoe washer for the inside thinner washer. That would move the shoe out farther from the arm. It doesn't take much to improve the mechanical advantage. The fixed geometry of your cable harness is just like the Shimano, and it appears to be designed to operate optimally in a very narrow range of arm motion. I was suprized at how moving the arms outward just a little really jacked up the leverage. Give that a try and let us know how it works out. Those brakes look strong enough to crush your rims!


Greg

Andy_K 

No, mine are the older design, before they put the extra bit of metal between the pivot and the end of the arm, but for purposes of this discussion, they work the same.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "proper selection of which washers from the linear pull brake shoes to put where." That was one of the early things I tried. It didn't make nearly as much difference as switching to a shorter link wire.

...lg...

does anyone have any comments on the TRP Euro X canti brakes? I was thinking about getting them and someone else told me I should just get the tektro cr720's. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Cynikal 

Here is a good write up on the Euro X
https://www.bikeman.com/content/view/1342/42