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Old 09-16-07, 08:03 PM   #1
cslone
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Raced my first race today.

Raced in the C class for my first cross race ever. Was a bit nervous, but was settled down after a talk with some experienced teammates and some pointers from coach John Verheul. The race was fairly short, only 30 minutes, but it was one of the tougher things I have done in a LONG time. I had only been out on my bike for 30 or so minutes prior to today, giving it the shake down and trying out some new cleats, so confidence was low.
Our race had 20 or so guys in it. The course was pretty long, but dry and fairly fast from what it seemed. I spent the first little bit just settling in and passing a few stragglers. I got my rythm and went off the front of our group. My brother gave me a time of about 15 second lead with 1 to go. I told myself just to settle in and ride fast, but controlled. By this time in the race, I was feeling pretty good. I came up on a dropped rider, and voiced on his left. We hit a turn and he went into me, causing me to hit a rut hard and go down. I got back up quickly, but realized my damn tire had rolled off the rim(tubulars). I had to let almost all the air out to pull it back on. Of course the pack of 4 caught me and went past. I was feeling rushed and could see 4th place just ahead of me. I quit thinking for a second and hit it coming up an off camber hill. The lack of glue, plus the low pressure caused the tire to roll again, taking me down.........again. I hopped up and trotted across the finish line, bike on the shoulder. Ended up 5th.

The race was well organized, and I can't wait until Oct. 7th for my next one.

Lessons learned:
-Watch out for downed/lapped riders, you never know what they'll do.
-Gluing a cross tubular is NOT like gluing a triathlon tubular. You don't want them to come off for quick tire changes.
-Cross is freaking INTENSE.
-I'm already hooked.

A pic of the action for kicks.
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Old 09-17-07, 07:47 AM   #2
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See you at the Derby City Cup!
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Old 09-17-07, 08:15 AM   #3
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you run tubulars?!

you're a nutbar

I wanted so bad to run down for that one yesterday. Unfortunately, cleaning the garage was on the list Yeah, I'm hooked after my first race, too. I'm glad I didn't run 60psi!

Here's some action from the Capcity Series race at Olentangy:






Last edited by sancocho; 09-17-07 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 09-18-07, 09:23 AM   #4
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I like how in the second to last shot there's a full representation of brakes and frames. Steel with carbon fork and disc brakes, Al, more carbon, and full steel (I think) with V-brakes.

The dude on the redline with the pink bar tape has a crazy mustache.
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Old 09-18-07, 10:44 AM   #5
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Cslone...I saw you run across the finish with that rolled tubular and it made me almost reconsider my move to get some...I've heard of no less than four rolled tubies in the first two OVCX races.
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Old 09-18-07, 01:57 PM   #6
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was my fault though. I glued them like I do my triathlon tubes, which is "Put enough on there to make them stick, but not too much so they are too hard to get off during a race". Couple that with the fact that cross tires are only running at ~40 psi vs 120+ on the road. If you've ever tried to pull off a tubular that has 120 psi in it, it's pretty impossible, even with no glue. Not so much evidently for one with 45 psi.

So, talking to a friend of mine, I use maybe 1 tube per wheel. He uses 2-2.5 and has not rolled a tubular in 10+ seasons and he races Elite. Needless to say, I picked some more glue up today.
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Old 09-18-07, 05:36 PM   #7
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Unlike road applications where the high tire pressure goes a long way to keeping the tire on the rim, cross relies on the glue as the major bonding agent. After all the purpose is to run low pressure.

Somewhere around here there is a pretty good synopsis of gluing up tubies. I like my abridged approach ...

I glued up four wheels and used about 2/3 or 3/4 of a full pot (I get the pot rather than spending a small fortune on tubes of glue). I put 2 layers on a fresh base tape (1 on a previously glued tire) and three layers on the rims plus a final layer on the base tape (for a total of 2-3). I get the glue even but not super thin. I also find that gluing a pair at a time works well for timing.

Anyway, in an evening Iíll do this to a pair 1) first layer on rims, 2) first layer on tires, 3) second layer on rim, 4) second layer on tire, 5) third layer on rim. The time it takes to make a nice even coat on each of the four components is usually enough for the least recently coated to be dry (unless itís really humid). So I just start the next application right away. Yup, that right, almost all the gluing done in an hour or so.

Wait overnight.

Slather on a nice thick (but even) coat on the base tape. Mount to rim and roll the whole thing along a broom stick to set the tire. Inflate to max psi and 24 hours later they are ready to go. Repeat for the next wheel. If you put enough glue on the base tape for the final application, a bit will gush out when you roll it on the broom and inflate the tire. Thatís good. It means you have an excellent seal at the tire/rim interface.

I donít like the Belgian method because if you have to remove the tire for any reason, itís a beeyotch. Iíve tried it and had to remove tires because 1) I tweaked a rim but the tire was almost new and 2) I cut a tire but the wheel was just fine. In both instances, the work quite outweighed the benefits.
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Old 09-18-07, 09:03 PM   #8
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yes, that mustache IS crazy. i showed a buddy of mine some of these and he said "I'm pretty sure you need a mustache for this bike racing thing." He's right. mine should be in by the John Bryan... be there or be square. That one's over your way, sort of, cslone. I'll bring you some glue... for your mustache.
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Old 09-19-07, 05:40 AM   #9
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Sounds good. I'll start gowing mine now so it has something to attach to.

I think I can get off work for the 29th Joe, so I should be at Alum Creek. Then doing the double on the 7th. The IPro TT in the morning and John Bryan Cross a little later.
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Old 09-21-07, 12:01 AM   #10
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Congrats! Sounds like you had a blast. Cross is by far the most painful thing you can do on a bike that doesn't require an MD afterwards.
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Old 09-23-07, 05:47 PM   #11
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I too raced my first cross race today. damn good time. Do it again for sure...placed 4/67 in C class. great times. felt like puking the whole race and for about 20 minutes after...long laps. 4 of them. great time....don't remember most of it...bikes, riding, jumping, left. right. up. down. oh man...so much fun!\\



and yes, i realize my number is upside down...it happens...my bust.
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Old 09-23-07, 11:02 PM   #12
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thug - NICE job, and it was GREAT to talk to you today, right before I started my race at Jackson Park. Oh man, cardstock KILLED the 3s...and I mean K-I-L-L-E-D.

I finished my race, which is good, considering I am not a real "endure redlining yourself for 30 minutes" kind of rider. Guess I need to be, ya?
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Old 09-24-07, 08:43 AM   #13
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^any more info on the race? i didn't see any on chifg.

congrats all round.

edit: never mind, just read cardstock's blog. awesome ben!

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Old 09-24-07, 08:34 PM   #14
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thug/pitboss was the race sonewheres in WI or IL?
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Old 09-24-07, 09:52 PM   #15
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Okay, so I reglued my tires. Now how the hell do I get all that glue off my side walls?
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Old 09-25-07, 07:16 AM   #16
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I use tape AND glue. The only time I rolled a tubular was in a crash that would have probably rolled a clincher or blown it. (Yes I have rolled clinchers too ).

The best method I think to get glue off side walls is to wait about 3 hours after glueing the tire on and then you can sort of just roll little balls of glue off with your finger. If it's been on a while try using a solvent called Goof Off but don't get too much under your glue joint.
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Old 09-26-07, 11:00 AM   #17
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frunkin, I'm the sole team pegasus representative in MN. Pitboss is holding down the fort with Cardstock in the chicago area. there are a number of us in WI. we pretty much have the midwest on lock. watch out!
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Old 09-26-07, 07:23 PM   #18
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sweet
any of you guys racing this sunday in lapham? Its gonna be my first cross race and Im either running my roadie with some narrow 30's if they fit (fingers crossed) or the MTB. Im going to do the juniors and the 4's. So excited!
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Old 09-26-07, 08:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwaCX View Post
Unlike road applications where the high tire pressure goes a long way to keeping the tire on the rim, cross relies on the glue as the major bonding agent. After all the purpose is to run low pressure.

Somewhere around here there is a pretty good synopsis of gluing up tubies. I like my abridged approach ...

I glued up four wheels and used about 2/3 or 3/4 of a full pot (I get the pot rather than spending a small fortune on tubes of glue). I put 2 layers on a fresh base tape (1 on a previously glued tire) and three layers on the rims plus a final layer on the base tape (for a total of 2-3). I get the glue even but not super thin. I also find that gluing a pair at a time works well for timing.

Anyway, in an evening Iíll do this to a pair 1) first layer on rims, 2) first layer on tires, 3) second layer on rim, 4) second layer on tire, 5) third layer on rim. The time it takes to make a nice even coat on each of the four components is usually enough for the least recently coated to be dry (unless itís really humid). So I just start the next application right away. Yup, that right, almost all the gluing done in an hour or so.

Wait overnight.

Slather on a nice thick (but even) coat on the base tape. Mount to rim and roll the whole thing along a broom stick to set the tire. Inflate to max psi and 24 hours later they are ready to go. Repeat for the next wheel. If you put enough glue on the base tape for the final application, a bit will gush out when you roll it on the broom and inflate the tire. Thatís good. It means you have an excellent seal at the tire/rim interface.

I donít like the Belgian method because if you have to remove the tire for any reason, itís a beeyotch. Iíve tried it and had to remove tires because 1) I tweaked a rim but the tire was almost new and 2) I cut a tire but the wheel was just fine. In both instances, the work quite outweighed the benefits.

I use Tufo Extreme tape on my two sets of Mavic Helium tubulars and have no problems. One set has Tufo diamond tread tires and the other Tufo Prestige nobby tires. Not a problem so far and they each get plenty of service. I can't wait until the first cross race!
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Old 09-26-07, 09:26 PM   #20
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Finished my first race today. I raced the Bs as there aren't enough people and especially not enough new people to warrant a C category. Wow that was hard. I didn't finish last, and that's good enough for me.

Things I learned:
1) The local 'cross racing scene is pretty small but dedicated. These guys are freaking good.
2) The guys who planned out the course (short laps) were sadists, this sentiment was expressed by others. About 5-6 barriers, two run-ups, almost no pavement. Very short straightaways. Some loose gravel. Mostly crappy, slow, energy sapping grass. Four or so 180 degree switchbacks. It was dry though.
3) I really need to work on cornering, especially if they are more courses like this coming up.
4) I want brifters and a shorter cranks on my next bike. I wasn't shifting enough, and everything about the geometry of my bike made for slow cornering. Though I'll admit most of it was me being a n00b.
5) 50 minutes is a long time to be riding all out.
6) Transitioning that often is really hard, especially towards the end.
7) That was a lto harder than riding a hily century. Or at least a very different kind of hard.
8) I want more.
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Old 09-27-07, 11:44 AM   #21
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1-8 describe cross perfectly except there is no mud or sand.....just wait!
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Old 09-27-07, 01:16 PM   #22
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Tohse with mountain bikes seemed to do pretty well on this course. Drop bars were no real advantage since there weren't long enough stretches to make getting aero much of a factor. Slightly larger tires may have helped with cornering on all that loose gravel.

Do most race organizers put tons of cornering like that in? I've heard descriptions of courses that had one or two times where you'd go around a tree or something, but not 4 switchbacks in a row followed by several others spread out through the course...

I can't wait to race in mud
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Old 09-28-07, 12:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I use Tufo Extreme tape on my two sets of Mavic Helium tubulars and have no problems. One set has Tufo diamond tread tires and the other Tufo Prestige nobby tires. Not a problem so far and they each get plenty of service. I can't wait until the first cross race!
Actually, the extreme tape is meant for higher temperature applications.

Tufo tape seems to work quite well in dry climes. If you are constantly racing in wet conditions, I've found that the tape will soak up water. Also, water/mud gets in through the spoke holes and attacks the bond from the inside.

My primary beef with tape is that it's a nightmare if you have to get a tire off the rim. I tired it last season (with glue also) and I was able to get the tire off the rim without much difficulty since mud and water had loosened the bond quite a bit. However, in one case, the rim was toast and I wanted to reuse the tire, and the tape was still stuck to the bas tape. Several hours later (and some thumb blisters), I had a tire I could use again. In the other case, I had a torn tire and a wheel I still wanted to use. Most of the tape came off on the rim this time. Again, many hours later, I had a fairly clean rim I could use again.

If I were just using glue, it would have been a snap.

No more tape for me. Ever.
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Old 09-29-07, 10:46 PM   #24
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Actually, the extreme tape is meant for higher temperature applications.
Wrong.

From the Tufo website:

New version of our very popular gluing tape, in extreme edition. Intended for high climate temperatures, as well as very low temperatures, for road races, track and triathlon.
Very light.
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Old 09-30-07, 08:27 PM   #25
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Back to the Cs again this week: 4/~15. Not bad...missed the hole shot and lost two guys off the front. Almost picked off #3 towards the end but was afraid of bonking. Next time I shall get the podium!
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