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Old 10-25-09, 07:40 PM   #1
dc.cyclocross
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DCCX results

www.dcmtb.com
http://www.dcmtb.com/blog/wp-content...l-results2.xls

Some category breakdowns and minor changes are in the works.

Thanks to everyone who came out to race or cheer at DCCX! Also a huge thank you to all the volunteers that make the race possible.

The officials were a bit short-staffed and had to deal with some huge fields. They made a desicion to limit the scored riders to the first 80 in some of these large fields. DCMTB/DCCX apologizes to any racers who finished the race, but are incorrectly listed as being DID NOT FINISH (DNF).

The race promoters rely on the officials to provide the scoring, and this was a decision the officials felt they had to make. Please also be aware that the protest period is over and no changes can be make to official results.

We will discus with officials in the future about how we can more completely score large races.

Thanks to all who came out today, and please accept our apologies if you were not included in the scored riders.

DCCX/DCMTB
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Old 10-26-09, 07:47 AM   #2
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Just curious, what was the problem with scoring? Are the officials different at every event? Is there a training program/certification through USA Cycling? I've scored auto races in the past and know it's not always easy - I just have no idea how officiating in 'cross (or any road discipline) works.

I wasn't impacted, but would be pretty upset if I paid my entry and busted my butt racing only to be listed as a DNF.

Has anybody considered using transponders (similar to what 90% of road running races use)?
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Old 10-26-09, 07:57 AM   #3
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i think transponders would only increase the cost of putting on races which would translate to higher entry fees.

The problem with scoring cross races is with 100+ people on the course after a lap or two it can be hard to determine who is lapped and who isnt. It might seem obvious who the leaders of the race are but when you start getting into riders in the 10's, 20's, etc it can be very difficult especially when the time gaps between riders grows.

Yesterday my buddy was listed as 13th when he was actually lapped.
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Old 10-26-09, 08:26 AM   #4
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When I was scoring car races, it didn't matter who is lapped - just write the number down as they go by. At the end of the race, you have a list of numbers. You have to go back and compare the lists that each official recorded, and count the number of times each car crossed the line, but it puts that effort at the end of the race, instead of during.
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Old 10-26-09, 08:40 AM   #5
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now what do you do if a number is obscured
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Old 10-26-09, 08:59 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Crack Monkey View Post
Just curious, what was the problem with scoring? Are the officials different at every event? Is there a training program/certification through USA Cycling? I've scored auto races in the past and know it's not always easy - I just have no idea how officiating in 'cross (or any road discipline) works.

I wasn't impacted, but would be pretty upset if I paid my entry and busted my butt racing only to be listed as a DNF.

Has anybody considered using transponders (similar to what 90% of road running races use)?
the crew was short 2 officials. I didn't hear why, but a lot people are sick these days.

we decided to have fields of over 100 riders. that's a lot harder on the officials since they can't just use the last 2 digits.

the chip idea does get kicked around, but I don't think anyone has felt convinced it is worth all the extra logistical issues and cost.

but I do think there is a problem that the hand written method isn't very scalable. a method that works to score the top 20 or so in a crit, isn't the same as a 100+ rider cross race where people are spread out all over the course and doing 4-6 laps. (iin the larger fields)

they are also under a lot of time pressure- races are going on all day, and they have to start the next race. racers want to get results while at the venue, and the riders should be able to verify their results in the protest period soon after the race, not hours later.


I feel bad for the unscored racers, but it really wasn't anything under our control. I talked to the head guy around her about scoring last year- he would prefer we never go over 100 riders. we could have done that (as we did last year), but that would mean turning a lot of riders away. so, that's a trade-of.

perhaps all they needed was an extra 2-3 people.

in terms of getting their moneys worth- I hope people had a good race and a fun day. plus there was free beer, frites, pancakes, bananas and other stuff from whole foods and at the end sodas, sandwiches, chips, cookies, fresh fruit, etc. plus we pay for medals, candy, juice for all the kids that show up. I think you get an awful lot for your $20, even if you were in 80+ place and didn't get scored.

that being said- I apologize to any racer affected and we will talk to our officials about how this can be improved. our CR at least i very experienced and does cross races- that's not the problem. I think it was just manpower.

marc
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Old 10-26-09, 09:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack Monkey View Post
When I was scoring car races, it didn't matter who is lapped - just write the number down as they go by. At the end of the race, you have a list of numbers. You have to go back and compare the lists that each official recorded, and count the number of times each car crossed the line, but it puts that effort at the end of the race, instead of during.
right- the officials need to get one race done and move on to the next.

so, tracking 125 riders- they write down each riders number each time they pass. after each race they sort if out. racers don't want to wait several hours or even days to find out how they did, or to collect a prize.

the next race starts about 15' after the leader of one race is done. but people can straggle in for another 8-10'. so, let's say you have about 8' from the time one race clears until the next 125 racers start and you have to be tracking them.

in the meantime they have to address protests and any other question that comes up.

so, you can see how having too few officials makes it impossible to keep up with the racing during the day

marc
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Old 10-26-09, 09:33 AM   #8
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As one of the DNF'ed, c'est la vie. My goals are improving with each race so I can get out of the back of the pack, whether I get a report telling me that I was precisely 101st or 102nd is not critical. I know what I did well and what I need to work on; putting a number on it doesn't really affect that. (Maybe I'd have a different feeling if I was in a 1/2/3 race, though.)

One of the things I like about CX is that it's more open to noobs trying their hand. At least for the giant Cat 4 race, I think most of us at the way back are just happy to have a fair number of races where we can show up and have our butts handed to us under real race conditions. How else are we going to get faster? Better that than constraining the size of the entry field.
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Old 10-26-09, 11:20 AM   #9
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Great race, regardless of the scoring problems. It was a rock star atmosphere, and the crowds were fantastic. This was only my 1st time at the event, but it has become my favorite cross race in the area.
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Old 10-26-09, 11:33 AM   #10
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right- the officials need to get one race done and move on to the next.

<snip>

so, you can see how having too few officials makes it impossible to keep up with the racing during the day
Aboslutely. We handed off the list of numbers to another group of officials, while we went back to scoring.

Anyway, didn't mean any of my posts as negative in tone, just curious how it works.

One question, are the officials trained or certified? Or, just random volunteers? If it's not the former, that might help.

I would hate to see field sizes limited, 100-125 makes for a fun race with plenty of people for all abilities to race.
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Old 10-26-09, 12:16 PM   #11
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Aboslutely. We handed off the list of numbers to another group of officials, while we went back to scoring.

Anyway, didn't mean any of my posts as negative in tone, just curious how it works.

One question, are the officials trained or certified? Or, just random volunteers? If it's not the former, that might help.

I would hate to see field sizes limited, 100-125 makes for a fun race with plenty of people for all abilities to race.
the officials are trained, experienced, and certified (and paid) usa cycling officials. I think the problem is that methods that work fine with 50 racer fields can become overwhelming with larger numbers, especially once they have to track triple digits

I tried last year to generate more thought into how scoring can be improved short capping racers at 100 riders and leave the rest (we filled 2 and almost a third race at 125, so that would mean at least 70 riders who wouldn't get to race)
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Old 10-26-09, 01:04 PM   #12
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We need a C+ and a C- race!
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Old 10-26-09, 02:13 PM   #13
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We need a C+ and a C- race!
i tried last year to get mabra to add a true beginners class- no go. we were told we could add one outside the regular schedule but we weren't sure we wanted to give ourselves less time to get ready in the am.

Last edited by dc.cyclocross; 10-26-09 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 10-27-09, 02:27 PM   #14
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great race, for the third year in a row. congrats and thanks to those who worked hard to make it a success.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:54 PM   #15
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Anybody know of any links to photos from the Men's Cat 4 (9:00 AM) race?
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