Wanderer

However, you attacked the messenger, not the message like you pretend now......... There is a difference, IMHO

Andy_K 

I am in 100% agreement with the comment that making barriers higher would be an onerous penalty to short racers. I'm 5'9" and I've found myself kicking some of the taller barriers in local races. Plus, I think you underestimate how tall a barrier would need to be to completely eliminate hopping. Many CX racers are mountain bikers racing cross because there are no MTB races in the fall. Have you seen the kinds of things that good mountain bikers can bunny hop? I'd need a step ladder if you made the barriers tall enough to prevent that.

If a course designer wants to discourage bunny hopping, it can be done without taller barriers or multiple closely spaced barriers. Putting a sharp turn right before or right after the barrier is usually sufficient to at least make it slower to hop the barriers, and making it slower is all it takes to get most people not to do it. But more often course designers aren't interested in discouraging bunny hopping. Rather they want to present scenarios where riders have a choice to make and it isn't always clear which option is better. It adds an element of thinking to the race. For example, at the PIR Heron Lakes Cross Crusade race this year the course designer put a pair of barriers on a hill, but he made them shorter than usual specifically to entice people to try bunny hopping.

Link to photo (scroll down)

I don't think most of us had the skills to hop that. I'm also not sure the few who did have the skills gained a lot of time, but they did win big style points with the spectators.

But this gets at the heart of CX. First and foremost it's a bike race, but it's a bike race that combines skills from multiple disciplines. It throws roadies and mountain bikers together and challenges both of them in different ways. Sometimes the roadies grumble that the course was too technical. Sometimes the mountain bikers grumble that it was too fast. If it's a really well balanced course, they both grumble.

Also, nearly any time a course goes into the woods you face a feature where failure can mean hitting a tree at speed. I agree that steep descents are significantly more dangerous than hopping barriers. Also, two of the most serious injuries I've personally witnessed were on entry into deep sand.

Finally, I would note that barriers are usually not at all about running. If you're doing it right there's very little running involved. It's all about footwork as you carry momentum across an obstacle.


That's not running. That's floating.

Dukeofquincy

This is a funny thread. Watching riders hop the barriers is one of my favorite parts of watching guys like Nys, Van Der Poehl, et al. Hop them if you can, run them if necessary.

Andy_K 

Yeah, that's the other aspect of it. Some racers hop over barriers so smoothly that the safety argument is laughable. Even some of the local racers, to say nothing of a guy like Nys, can go over barriers like I go over tree roots.

(Note to the Austin Heritage Tree Foundation: no trees were harmed in the writing of this message.)

91MF

guys i heard they are banning heel-toe and left foot braking in auto racing because some guys who don't race professionally but sometimes do track days are having trouble learning the technique.

grolby

Hey, part of why Trebon looks so good on those barriers is because he's 8 feet tall, but I do agree. It's misleading to say that crossing barriers is about "running." Even when running the barriers, the whole focus is to do as little running as possible to successfully clear them.

McRussellPants

It's intense that you'd suffer the embarrassment of admitting to being so bad at bikes you can't bunny hop rather than just take the falls learning how to do it.



Sorry bout ya.

Yotsko

Why not ban dismounting! Then everyone would be forced to become better riders instead of better whiners...

jdms mvp

i think we should ban riders over 6 foot

unterhausen

at the world championships they had some barriers right after turns -- wonder if that was to eliminate bunnyhopping?
what's funny to me is that I remembered that as a bunnyhopping crash.

LesterOfPuppets

Poor Joey! Last year my left foot didn't unclip as quickly as I expected it to, so rammed a barrier, front wheel turned then I think I might have stepped on it, I dunno, but it was taco'd. Luckily only about 25 yards to finish line so ran the bike across for the finish.

If only I could bunnyhop more than 6" high I coulda still had that rim

I'm a barrier hater even though I usually do pretty well across them speedwise. STXC is more funner for me cuz of lack of barriers.

gamby

I'm not a great bunnyhopper, but also, my conservative brain wouldn't try hopping anything when I'm depleted/tired (which is me on a CX course at any time )

telebianchi

I prefer to watch dismounts over barriers. Bunny hops are cool but when I think CX I think dismounts.

But....

.... it's up to the course designers to deal with that. I've seen courses with a 180 degree turn right before the barrier - impossible for even the Cat 1s to keep enough speed to bunny hop during a race (saw some do it in warm-ups but it was not as fast as a traditional dismount). Another race put the barriers just after enough of an uphill that riders couldn't carry enough speed. One other buried a small log about 10 feet in front of a barrier -- it was easy to ride over but again just enough to slow most riders down so that a dismount was the fastest way over the barriers.

But other places the course designers set up a nice straight away so a rider with the skills and strength can choose to bunny hop. I don't follow local results at all, but for all I know the guys who bunny hop and win races can't eek out a podium on a course that essentially forces a dismount. That's part of what makes CX races fun. Some racers' skills translate better to one course than to another.

50voltphantom

Exactly. It's racing, if you had the skills, you'd be doing it too. End of discussion.

stayfed

Troll

Black wallnut 

What? Who?

Jeff even I disagree with you. I would prefer CX courses where running is not part of the deal. I ride CX because it is fun and challenging. it makes me push my limits and improves my bike handling which should make me a safer rider on the road. I also like the competition. Higher barriers for me at 5'8" would suck but they would not IMHO stop the few that bunny hop in the series that I race in. @grolby could learn to not be so arrogant and condecending and argue the issue without attacking the messenger, maybe it is a Boston thing?

grolby

Accusing me of "attacking the messenger" while taking a cheap shot at an entire city kind of loses you the high ground, bro.

Seriously, though, I will cop to not being nice. And I will even apologize: sorry, I was a little over the top at times. But arrogant? Here's how I see this: dude comes in with no experience in cyclocross and finds aspects of it don't match the image he has formed in his head. Rather than taking that as an indication that he could have something to learn about the sport, he decides that the sport should just be altered to match what he has in his head. That, to me, is the height of arrogance. And that sort of presumptuousness gets my goat, which is why I was not very polite about it. My bad - but this whole thread was very ill-conceived from the beginning and I stand by that. There's a pretty long history of efforts to prevent bunnyhopping through alterations to the course. Those efforts were ultimately abandoned. They didn't make for better racing and they didn't improve safety. This information is out there to be learned for someone who wants to take the time.

JoesInBoston

Banning the act of staying on your bike in a bike race is ridiculous and........the barriers are high enough for this 5'6" dude. But still, even if you made them another inch higher.....there's always going to be someone who can do with a road bike what you cannot.

Ronsonic 

Strategery! It's a part of the sport. Not just athleticism and skill and not even just the gut check that's integral to cross.

Trying different approaches to obstacles throughout a race looking for the fastest way through is part of it. Accepting the occasional crash is part of that.

One of the things I've loved about watching Sven Nys is seeing him ride along with the lead pack until the last two laps then he breaks out some sick move to clear an obstacle to start his attack. It's part of the game. Knowing if your brain is still sufficiently oxygenated to hop a barrier is another.

nickw

I think bunnyhopping is a neat party trick and do it myself on occasion, coming from a BMX background, I have the skill set that allows me the luxury. With that said, its risky and can be as much about fitness as it is skill. Two thirds through a race, HR is at 190+, lactic acid is building, brain is shutting down, bunnyhoping is is a HUGE risk. Also begs the question, unless it's a huge advantage and you have the fitness to be at the front, whats the point of taking the risk...

If they raised the barriers 1" it would be a game changer with a lot of the pros I think. Doesn't seem like much, but those guys are hardly clearing them as is. For a bike 'optimized' for efficiency, you are so far over the front end, seat up your arse, it's not easy. Those guys doing freestyle on road bikes have the bars set-up specifically for that w/undersized frames. It's still impressive, no question, but they couldn't do that on a CX bike setup with power production in mind. Even a MTB setup for XC racing, low bars, high seat, no dropper, etc., very difficult to bunnyhop. Nys is by far the smoothest followed closely by Van der poel and Meeusen. Some of the other guys do it consistently, but it looks awfully sketchy at times. Most don't do it though and considering they grew up racing their entire lives, you'd think it would be something EVERYBODY has in their arsenal.

Jakedatc

Sour grapes that others are better riders than you... you can already get frostbite and now you can get heat stroke with no water hand ups.
https://youtu.be/o0oGMix5X44?t=6s

E.S.

lulz. /thread

Skankingbiker

hey. nothing wrong with that.

Ronsonic 

The solution to bunny-hoppers is to follow them for a lap or two to see what's the fast line they use. Then on the next (and subsequent) lap get to the obstacle first, make a clean, fast dismount and then shoulder the bike cross-ways behind you as you run "their" line. If you time this right, the hoppus interruptus can result in everything from a determination to drop the hell out of you when he gets back on the bike to "Hilarity Ensues."

Of course the key is "get to the obstacle first make a clean, fast dismount." That's what's going to matter.

CliffordK

Those barrier transitions are FAST.

Those double barriers appear as if they would be more difficult to bunny hop.

Why not just increase the barrier height? Not too many people will be bunny hopping over Jersey barriers.

Come around a blind corner, with a barrier about head height... sounds perfect. What could possibly go wrong?