Turd Ferguson

I rode my bike through a stop sign in downtown Toronto today and a cop gave me a $110 ticket. While paying the ticket isn't my biggest concern, having the charge applied to my drivers license, even worse, the insurance company getting wind of it. It would by my third traffic offense in 3 years and my rates will go up.

Can anyone confirm wether this ticket will indeed affect my drivers license? I'm hoping it won't as I ws on a bike, but the charge will be registered under the Highway Traffic Act.

thanks

Boudicca

Where was the stop sign? Are cops starting a new campaign, like the one they always start immediately after bike week?

I am good about slowing for a stop sign, but no, I rarely actually stop.

Turd Ferguson

I was at Queen / Spadina where another cop told me they were on a new campaign to ticket cyclist...

I've been reading, just don't give the cop your license for ID (it's not required). This way, you will not get demerit points...I'm still wondering if it will show up on a drivers abstract. Hopefully no?

jm01

https://www.toronto.ca/cycling/pdf/hta.pdf

I've been stopped twice in the last 4 weeks, both times by the same bike cop around Annette/Dundas, for hopping onto the sidewalk and going through a crosswalk, and going through a red light the second time...

...Got a warning both times and was told that if I got a ticket, it would be on my driving record...hard to see how they could do this if you don't give them your driving licence

Turd Ferguson

Agreed. Note to self, never ride with your drivers license. That was the first thing the cop ( patrol car ), asked for.

Fyi,

https://www.bicyclesource.com/body/sa...rio-laws.shtml

You got lucky, even when I mentioned my brother was a cop, he smiled, and wrote the ticket. Hey, I'll try anything to get out of a ticket At the end of the day..it's not the cost of the ticket, but the points and having a charge my abstract that concerns me...bloody insurance companies will nail you too the wall.

I'm wondering what stopped him from just looking me up in the system and writing down the drivers license?

Zeuser

I was about to say that. Since riding a bike doesn't require a driver's licence, don't bring it along or don't give it to him he asks for it.

He will require some valid ID though so you can simply hand him your OHIP card for ID purposes. If he does lookup some info in his computer and finds out you do indeed have a driver's licence, he can't apply the charge to the driver's licence. If he does, you have something to go to court with.

You see: If you handed over the driver's licence yourself, it'll be hard for you to defend yourself in court. If you don't and he does apply the charge to your licence, you have a valid case against the cop.

Know your rights and use them wisely.

PS: Here's a trick for you; keep a stamped and adressed envelope handy (use your mom, dad, brother/sister's address or something). If you get pulled over, shove your driver's licence into the envelope and seal it. The cop is not allowed to open the envelope. Only a postal inspector is allowed to open it. And they won't bother calling out a postal inspector for a mere traffic stop.

dcon

Hey, at least the cop didn't beat you about the head.

Is there nothing more pressing for them to be doing in this city? Ticketing cyclists? What a joke.

Treker

This may be seem radical, but why not just obey the rules of the road?

cooker

I think the fine is justified...you break the law you pay the price. But losing the driver's license points is unfair. You're being treated more harshly that someone would be who did the same offence but didn't have a driver's license. This has come up before and I don't know if anyone has successfully fought it.

cooker

Actually, that link that jm01 posted, https://www.toronto.ca/cycling/pdf/hta.pdf says that "demerit points do not apply to cyclists". (sec 56, bottom of page 2).

jm01

good catch...I'll remind that cop (i see him every day) should he stop me again

Actually, he's a nice guy...had a longer talk with him last Friday about the bikes cops now use (they went from Trek to Aquila, then to Devinci, now they're using bikes from Urbane Cyclist)

...he liked the Davinci best...apparently a shorter wheel base and tighter head angle for better handing in traffic

AGGRO

WHAT


The HORROR

Turd Ferguson

https://www.toronto.ca/cycling/cyclometer/2004_nov.htm#5

See section #5

He didn't wrtie bicycle in the appropriate box. My drivers license was requested. I'm cool with the fine, just not the demerit points. Looks like I'll have to see the JP.

Turd Ferguson

https://www.respect.to/legal/hta2.html

travelinhobo

Yeah, I agree. Why did you go thru a stop sign? Okay, I don't live in your city, but let's face it, if us cyclists don't go with the rules, then the drivers hate us even more. I can't stand all these racers who think they're above the law and go thru red lights, etc. just to save their muscles. Good grief. Good thing they wear those helmets - they'll need them at some point. However, I think the cost of that ticket is ridiculous!! I'm carfree. If I could afford $110, I'd buy gas and put it in a mechanical device!

cooker

I drive the same way in a car or a bicycle. I never come to a full stop for a stop sign unless there's a cop watching or another vehicle has right of way.

mike alanko

Let's ALL go through stop signs and hit each other, and then we'll see who's right!

Come on, man.

mito2008

slow road, no cars around, street is dead...

why stop at a red light?

mike alanko

stop because it's red. stop because some impressionable kid might take you as an example. stop because some anti-cycling wacko might be watching out the window of his house so you don't give him more ammo. stop because you have to.

mito2008

If I see kids around, I'll always slow down. I'll even smile and say Hi. That's the best example you can give impressionable and non-impressionable kids.

As for anti-cycling wackos, I couldn't care less about them. Let them be miserable.

Again as for the red signs/lights, I'll have to repeat that it's against common sense to stop at a red light when there is nothing around, no cars, the street is dead. It's foolish, even though "against" the law. Even an impressionable kid will agree with me.


Oh....... Dura lex, sed lex.

mike alanko

Mito, my dear citizen.

If consciences are reliable, why do we need cops?

I get impressionable people agreeing with me all the time, no contest there...

mito2008

We need cops to protect us from murderers, thieves and scoundrels. A cop shouldn't waste his time with a cyclist ignoring a red light/sign on a dead road.

I think you will all agree with me here.

mike alanko

nope.

mito2008

most will

poll time

mike alanko

Ok, mito. Let's make sure we get everyone in Bike Forums in on this poll. How about it? The safety forum will love this.

Why not, actually, expand it to the whole internet? No, we won't get an accurate representation if it's that small...

We need everyone in the GTA, maybe in Ontario to answer:

Shouldn't people on bicycles be allowed to run stop signs and red lights at their own discretion, and isn't it a waste of time making sure they don't?

Seems to me, laws grow out of big polls like this... hmmn.

Let's quit this game of who gets the last word and agree to disagree.