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  1. #26
    Two H's!!! TWO!!!!! chephy's Avatar
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    +1. A huge reason cyclists blow stop signs and reds is because they're expected to travel on little side streets that have a ton of stop signs and a red light at every intersection with a major road. (The only place where this doesn't apply might be the very thick of downtown that has no little side streets.)

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    Oh man- I'm sorry I ever started this thread...

    Yeesh - Some guy named Rodney King called me and asked if we couldn't all just get along.
    Well I guess not. We need to communicate more with each other and with drivers- not just giving them the finger either.

    And yes I'm sorry for making poor comments towards jm01. Passion for cycling? Hell yeah- It's obvious so many of us here are.

    At least we have that in common so thats a start. OK- No straight arms anytime soon.

    Peace to all and new brains for idiot drivers.

  3. #28
    Dead Men Assume...
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    Quote Originally Posted by chephy
    Did you read their minds to know why they do it as they blow past you?
    Well, then, how do you know that when they are going through a red that they are trying to establish a safe lane position?

    Quote Originally Posted by chephy
    In other words, they DON'T know that everyone on the road is supposed to follow the same rules.
    And what about the cyclists?

    Quote Originally Posted by chephy
    I actually heard someone say once: "You know, there should be some sort of rules for cyclists too, not just for drivers!" Right now the general population thinks there is one rule for cyclists: keep out of the way. If you follow it, they don't give a bleep about your HTA violations; and if you don't - they don't care how closely you follow the HTA, they get mad anyhow.
    No, I think that they do care about your traffic violations. Openly breaking the law really steams people off, and I think it's especially true for those who actually do know that bicyclists are considered vehicles in the eyes of the law. It's like there is a double standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by chephy
    Seriously, is there a great public outcry (from ANY segment of population) about drivers doing 60-70 km/h in the 50 km/h zone (which is their usual, DEFAULT behaviour)? In fact the driver who's going to get harrassed is the one doing 50...
    You are not aware of any neighbourhoods who press for speed bumps? I think that you're generalizing way too much about drivers' behaviours.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chephy
    +1. A huge reason cyclists blow stop signs and reds is because they're expected to travel on little side streets that have a ton of stop signs and a red light at every intersection with a major road. (The only place where this doesn't apply might be the very thick of downtown that has no little side streets.)
    First you say that cyclists blow through reds for safety and now you're saying that it's for...what? convenience?

    Hey, why don't we meet up downtown one evening during rush hour and see how many cyclists simply blow through reds? We'll even choose an arterial road.

  5. #30
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Speed humps and four-way stops in residential neighbourhoods were not put in place to slow down bike commuters. They are there to try and slow down that tonne of metal and plastic that kills our children playing on the street.

    Is this a forum for cyclists or a forum for car drivers who hate cyclists?

  6. #31
    AEO
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    Yeah, that's exactly why stop signs are there. stop signs and speed bumps in residential areas are to keep motorists from speeding 50km/h~60km/h in a 30km/h~40km/h zone. Hardly what a commuter bike can pull off. They're there to prevent people from doing stupid things.

    traffic lights are there because it was no longer efficient or safe to use stop signs as a mean to control traffic at that intersection.
    Ever been at an traffic light intersection where the lights were out? CHAOS ensues because a vast majority of people don't know they're supposed to treat it as an all way stop. Some (most?) people just don't understand how the traffic laws apply to them when they're driving, riding or walking. Others just take a calculated risk.

    I ride on college st. from spadina to dundas, and a lot of people blow reds through little Italy. Some look, some don't bother, but I've yet to see someone get hit.
    Mind you, I stop at red lights, but roll through stop signs after looking both ways.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  7. #32
    Two H's!!! TWO!!!!! chephy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronMac
    Well, then, how do you know that when they are going through a red that they are trying to establish a safe lane position?
    Because some of them told me so. But in a sense it is irrelevant what motivates them to do it - they end up in a safer situation regardless of their motives.

    No, I think that they do care about your traffic violations. Openly breaking the law really steams people off
    I've been honked at many times while taking the lane legally. I've never seen anyone honk at a cyclist running a red light. Certainly not for riding on the sidewalk either. (Wouldn't that be nice: a driver drives up to a sidewalk cyclist and yells: "Get on the f***ing road!" )

    and I think it's especially true for those who actually do know that bicyclists are considered vehicles in the eyes of the law.
    Well, if they know it already, they probably know enough to know a good cyclist when they see one, so you needn't worry that they will try to run YOU over because of OTHER cyclists' actions.

    You are not aware of any neighbourhoods who press for speed bumps? I think that you're generalizing way too much about drivers' behaviours.
    What do speedbumps have anything to do with cyclists??

    If you are trying to present that as an indication that people disapprove of speeding motorists, I don't buy it. People disapprove of speeding motorists in THEIR NEIGHBOURHOOD. These same people who want a speed bump next to their porch will not hesitate to floor it on arterials.

    First you say that cyclists blow through reds for safety and now you're saying that it's for...what? convenience?
    Couldn't possibly be both, eh? There is only one reason for any action.
    Last edited by chephy; 07-02-07 at 09:04 PM.

  8. #33
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    I usually commute along Queen St. but will make a point to run every red light and stop sign along the Quay hoping that you say something...look forward to introducing myself properly.

    What bike you ride?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chephy
    +1. A huge reason cyclists blow stop signs and reds is because they're expected to travel on little side streets that have a ton of stop signs and a red light at every intersection with a major road. (The only place where this doesn't apply might be the very thick of downtown that has no little side streets.)
    Number of Stop signs I encounter when I drive to work: 2

    Number of Potential Red lights I encounter when I drive to work: 7

    Number of Stop signs I encounter when I bike to work: 13

    Number of Potential Red lights I encounter when I bike to work: 22


    And this is on a bike route I've refined over the years to minimize delays.

  10. #35
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    Last edited by OwwMyLegs; 07-03-07 at 05:32 PM.

  11. #36
    Two H's!!! TWO!!!!! chephy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruiser
    Number of Potential Red lights I encounter when I bike to work: 22
    And they are more likely to be red than potential red lights on the driving route too, I bet.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Caspar_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronMac
    Openly breaking the law really steams people off,
    I think that is more "Openly breaking the law when they can't" because they don't hesitate to go over the speed limit any chance they get. Same with rolling stop signs and right turn on red.

  13. #38
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspar_s
    I think that is more "Openly breaking the law when they can't" because they don't hesitate to go over the speed limit any chance they get. Same with rolling stop signs and right turn on red.
    In Ontario a right turn on a red light is legal providing you come to a complete stop and give way to other vehicles with the right of way. Similarly, it is also legal to make a left turn on a red light from one one-way street to another one way.

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    That's funny. Some nerd "real commuter" stuck at a light, fuming with road rage as the other bikers roll past. Haha. Drive to work if you want to be all angry and stuck in traffic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell
    In Ontario a right turn on a red light is legal providing you come to a complete stop and give way to other vehicles with the right of way.
    The actual protocol, of course, is to slow down to maybe 30 kph, look left only while rolling through the crosswalk, and hit the gas hard to squeeze into an impossibly small gap between through traffic, preferably running over the toes of at least one pedestrian.

  16. #41
    Senior Member aMull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell
    Speed humps and four-way stops in residential neighbourhoods were not put in place to slow down bike commuters. They are there to try and slow down that tonne of metal and plastic that kills our children playing on the street.

    Is this a forum for cyclists or a forum for car drivers who hate cyclists?
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by qmsdc15
    That's funny. Some nerd "real commuter" stuck at a light, fuming with road rage as the other bikers roll past. Haha. Drive to work if you want to be all angry and stuck in traffic!
    Haha true.

  17. #42
    AEO
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    thursday night, I was in my car, driving down king st. from around strachaun to roncesvelle for about 30mins doing some errands (10:00pm~10:30pm)... and I encounter no less than...
    bikes going the wrong way: 8
    bikes with no lights: 20
    bikes with no light OR reflectors: 4
    bikers not wearing a helmet: 25
    sidewalk riders: 6
    bikes going the wrong way, no helmet, no lights and no reflectors: 2
    bikes actually having lights, reflectors and helmets: 2
    blowing through a red: 0 (too crowded)
    out of around 35 bikers I encountered on my short trip... Mind you, they were all passing me, so anyone who's been there knows how slow the traffic can be. Some of them I counted twice or three times.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  18. #43
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEO
    thursday night, I was in my car, driving down king st. from around strachaun to roncesvelle for about 30mins doing some errands (10:00pm~10:30pm)... and I encounter no less than...
    bikes going the wrong way: 8
    bikes with no lights: 20
    bikes with no light OR reflectors: 4
    bikers not wearing a helmet: 25
    sidewalk riders: 6
    bikes going the wrong way, no helmet, no lights and no reflectors: 2
    bikes actually having lights, reflectors and helmets: 2
    blowing through a red: 0 (too crowded)
    out of around 35 bikers I encountered on my short trip... Mind you, they were all passing me, so anyone who's been there knows how slow the traffic can be. Some of them I counted twice or three times.
    I'm sorry, is this the bike forum or the car forum? It appears that some have this mixed up.

  19. #44
    AEO
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    like I said, I was running errands (I.E. helping a friend moving heavy furnature), I commute to work on bike, practically each day.
    But what I wanted to point out was the amount of dumb people doing dumb stuff. Granted, they're about the only ones going to get hurt.

    I'm so sorry I had to drive a car from IKEA in etobicoke to King/Bathurst area carrying no less than 20kg worth of stuff, not to mention my friend (80kg). When all I needed was a few hours more, tandem and a trailer. Thanks for the suggestion.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  20. #45
    LMLN Turd Ferguson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronMac
    First you say that cyclists blow through reds for safety and now you're saying that it's for...what? convenience?

    Hey, why don't we meet up downtown one evening during rush hour and see how many cyclists simply blow through reds? We'll even choose an arterial road.
    I hear you... what kills me more is why some cyclist don't wear bloody helmets and drive like freaks.

    I received a $110 ticket for riding through a stpo sigh a month or so back. While I generally obey the rules of the road, especially stop lights I've been guilty of rolling through the odd stop sign if there is no traffic. Since getting the ticket, I look for cops first.

    Most cyclist are pretty good although the few that zip around, weaving cause serious headaches for other cylists and more importantly - drivers. When driving downtown I'm very aware of bikes and tend to be as courteous as possible, slowing down, leaving extra room, waiting them to pass on the right but what kills me is these guess dodging cars. We don't have eyes in the back of our heads and they put themselves as risk of getting hit. At the same time...some drivers are also useless, like the one who hit me a couple weeks back..

  21. #46
    Two H's!!! TWO!!!!! chephy's Avatar
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    How are helmets relevant here anyway? They are not even required by law (thankfully) and they are not affecting the safety of other road users in any way. What business is that of yours whether cyclists wear them or not?

  22. #47
    LMLN Turd Ferguson's Avatar
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    Only relevant in that I'm amazed by those who ride like freaks in traffic withouth a helmet obviously have no regard for their safety, and the safety of others on the road.


    I don't care if you wear a helmet, if you get into an accident and crack your skull while riding - it's your problem.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by chephy
    How are helmets relevant here anyway? They are not even required by law (thankfully) and they are not affecting the safety of other road users in any way. What business is that of yours whether cyclists wear them or not?
    +1...I too do not wear a helmet on my commutes...however, I've seen two fatal accidents where both cyclists were wearing them...didn't even stop their brains from making a mess on the road

  24. #49
    AEO
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    I find that some people do not wear their helmets correctly, or they are using what looks like a really old helmet, beat up helmet (The kind you can get in CT). They either don't read the warning label and instructions, or leave it attached to the handlebars.

    It's a choice here. If you won't want to wear one, perfectly fine as long as you're older than 18. But I do see plenty of sidewalk riders who look yonger than 16 not wearing them.

    I can attest that helmets don't seem like much use, since All my life I've been wearing one while on a bike, my acrobatics paid off more than my helmet. Haven't hit my head once, but my backpack, hands and legs sure do. I guess I only wear it for psychological purposes.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  25. #50
    Senior Member psykoocycle's Avatar
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    *L*

    What a heated "discussion"...

    I don't wear a helmet, and meet many people espousing the stupidity of not wearing a helmet. But like JM01, the only fatilities and most bicycle accidents I've personally seen involved a helmet wearing cyclist.

    Sometimes I think they should have put the money spent on the helmet, on "defending yourself in Toronto: cycling class"

    I am both a rider and a driver, aware at both times and off both issues on both sides. I rarely, if ever get pissed offed with miscues on both sides. Because I can't control their riding/driving.

    I think about it this way, I'm much more careful as a bicycle rider, because if something happens, I get hurt. Similarly, I'm aware the many moves rider's may opt to take as a driver and do what I can to avoid any collisions.

    That said, there are never any guarantees.

    The only people that annoy me are the ones who complain and act like they own and can control the world.

    The other day I had some guy call me a a$$ hole for riding past a red. Yes I disobeyed the law, like some motorist and cyclist, but did he see me slow down below 15ks, look both ways at cars and pedestrians before doing this?

    (wouldn't it have been real funny if a car struck him while he crossed the street spitefully glaring and swearing at me!... would this have woken him up?)

    Offcourse to that guy, I'm an a$$ hole because I disobeyed the law, though I was probably more aware of traffic flow on my bike than he was while glaring at me and swwearing while he was crossing the road!

    My unapologetic .02 cents
    Last edited by psykoocycle; 07-10-07 at 10:39 AM.

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