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  1. #1
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Electric Bike Update(for those who have abandoned the original thread)

    Hi all!
    I read with interest the thread started by Joe concerning electic bikes. It's kind of tough to read all the posts, but I spent about half an hour today, reading through them.

    There are a minority who believe that ebikes are not bikes at all, and are something like motor bikes.

    I commute 42 km's a day. It is possible for me to do the entire trip many days, but I'm limited in the winter by the fact that ice and snow make it dangerous to bike. As an experiment this winter I bought an electric hub for an adult tricycle.

    I invite you to visit my journal on crazyguyonabike and let me know your opinion.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Life is good RonH's Avatar
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    If that's your bike, you'd better go outside and check to see if it's still there. Someone may have lifted it up and off of the pole.
    Is the electric hub on the front wheel? If so, don't you lose a lot of traction since most of the weight is on the back wheels?
    My bikes --> 2001 Litespeed Tuscany---2013 Cannondale CAAD 10 2 (5) "Racing Edition"

    Life is like a 10-speed bicycle. Most of us have gears we never use. ~ Charles Schultz

  3. #3
    Senior Member BikeManDan's Avatar
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    Thats just as good as locking your bike like this:


  4. #4
    *****es love tarck kemmer's Avatar
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    Do you really think you could lift that bike over the pole? It looks like it wieghs 300lbs.

  5. #5
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Although the bike doesn't wiegh 300 lbs, it would take a couple of hefty guys to lift it that high. Thanks for your concern, but I took the picture after I'd removed the lock on the rear wheel and frame. That's quite enough security for dropping in at the liquor store in a 'tony' part of Toronto.

    As far as the front wheels go, It's a brushless hub so I have to pedal to get it going. I have spun the wheels in snow and on ice, and it tends to slide to the right. On dry pavement, the traction has been great. Strangely it is the rear wheels that seem to spin most often. I've just changed the front crank for a much larger one so when I'm pedalling with some assistance I can go about 25-30 kmp/hr. I have a 42 km commute each day, so I really need to keep a fairly high top speed. It's taking me about an hour each way currently, that's averaging about 20 km/hr. Pretty good considering getting there is mostly up hill. Check this out!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Zero_Enigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwoloz
    Thats just as good as locking your bike like this:

    That has got to be the funnest (sp?) lock up photo I've seen ever. Yah sometimes the posts arn't there or they're way over sized if you find it and not U-lock friendly. A mini grocery shopping center I saw recently have some really suck lock ups. It's just a concreate block with a small eyelet hole in it. I laughed when I saw that. Hell I'mnot even sure if the Kyrptonite NYC chains will go through the hole. Time sliek that a chain is hugely favored but said chain is 5.5lbs and costs $160-$170 CDN >_<;



    Zero_Engima

  7. #7
    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
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    What was your reason for going with a delta over a tadpole?

  8. #8
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    Does pedaling move one or both of the back wheels?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Zero_Enigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell
    Hi all!
    I read with interest the thread started by Joe concerning electic bikes. It's kind of tough to read all the posts, but I spent about half an hour today, reading through them.

    There are a minority who believe that ebikes are not bikes at all, and are something like motor bikes.

    I commute 42 km's a day. It is possible for me to do the entire trip many days, but I'm limited in the winter by the fact that ice and snow make it dangerous to bike. As an experiment this winter I bought an electric hub for an adult tricycle.

    I invite you to visit my journal on crazyguyonabike and let me know your opinion.
    You ride 42km's? That's about my distance from north of the city to downtown. Where abouts are you in T.O? How much did the bike cost? What size are the tires? What is the bikes range (pedal assist that is)? Can you turn the assist off and ride full manual? Are you allowed on bike path/trails with that? Do you ride that on city roads or on the sidewalk?

    Cool looking bike.


    Zero_Enigma

  10. #10
    Administrator Allen's Avatar
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    I've ordered an Estelle E bike from Worksman for my father (great price). When it comes in I'll post pics and give a run down on how it compaires to my Giant Lite.
    The Estelle has a front hub motor like the trike in Stokell's post and the Giant's drive is inline with the chain.


    Giant Lite/Twist


    Estelle City

    --A

  11. #11
    Senior Member Zero_Enigma's Avatar
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    Nice Workman bike tho I'm wheriy (sp?) or locking that up outside when at the mall for a movie or shopping/groceries. For a quick hot chocolate or quick stop to a convience store sure but what gets m is how it looks liek he battery can be taken easily.

    Currie seems to have some bikes with a concealed battery. While the concealed battery makes the bike look stock and not out of the ordinary I'm curious as to if the user has access to the battery should they which to upgrade or replace a dead battery.

    http://electric-bikes.com/bikes/diagnose.html I found this site handy for the bike info.

    http://www.currietech.com/html/izipC...pMainProd.html Currie Izip Trekking has a concealed battery. Looks good too tho the curve in the frame does kill some useable accessory space. Not bad 48lbs which you could carry a short distance or onto the subway.




    Zero_Enigma

  12. #12
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    What was your reason for going with a delta over a tadpole?
    Hieght and price. This is a city commuter bike for the winter. Visibility is critical as I have to bike into the suburbs where everyone is speeding, inattentive or stoned. Sometimes all three!

  13. #13
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastershake916
    Does pedaling move one or both of the back wheels?
    Just one, I think it is the one on the right side, the other one just coasts. Now I also have front wheel drive!

  14. #14
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero_Enigma
    You ride 42km's? That's about my distance from north of the city to downtown. Where abouts are you in T.O? How much did the bike cost? What size are the tires? What is the bikes range (pedal assist that is)? Can you turn the assist off and ride full manual? Are you allowed on bike path/trails with that? Do you ride that on city roads or on the sidewalk?

    Cool looking bike.


    Zero_Enigma
    I live in the Beach and ride up to Markham. It's difficult to cost out the bike because I assembled it from parts. Check out my journal. An adult trike costs around $550. Add the custom paint and the brushless hub kit and the cost goes up to around $1200.

    The tires are 24 inch. Originals on the back and a really good bulletproof Schwalbe on the front.

    As far as assistance goes, it is mostly good on hills. There are lots of those on the way there and back. The electrical assistance is my choice. Once I get moving about 5 kms the hub will assist me if I have it turned on. I have a deadman's switch on the left side of the handlebar.

    The Ontario government has legalized these bikes for a test period of three years. You have to be over 16 and wear a helmet. No license or insurance required. You can ride on roads, bike lanes and multi-use paths. In Toronto riding a bike on a sidewalk is good for a $110 fine. Strangely trikes are exempt from the Municipal Code.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Zero_Enigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell

    The Ontario government has legalized these bikes for a test period of three years. You have to be over 16 and wear a helmet. No license or insurance required. You can ride on roads, bike lanes and multi-use paths. In Toronto riding a bike on a sidewalk is good for a $110 fine. Strangely trikes are exempt from the Municipal Code.
    I know about legalized status. I saw that around Oct (I think) 2006. Up north of the city the sidewalk thing is not enforced. At least I've not seen anyone get pulled over on the sidewalk yet. Downtown I can understand if a cop pulls you over as it'll be more crowded down there. The cops up here don't mind. I've seen many adults on bikes when I've pulled up right beside the cop cruiser on my bike on the road. They just look at me and I wave back and they look at the other bikes on the sidewalk waiting for the lights to change and looking at the adults on bike crossing the road and back onto the sidewalk again. Maybe they might enforce it more when it's bike week to boost up some revenue.


    Zero_Enigma

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell
    Just one, I think it is the one on the right side, the other one just coasts. Now I also have front wheel drive!
    I think it would be cool to put the motor on the wheel that isn't pedaled

  17. #17
    Administrator Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastershake916
    I think it would be cool to put the motor on the wheel that isn't pedaled
    There are 3 ways to mount a motor. Like the Estelle and the trike above on the (non drive) front wheel. This approach is the most common.
    Inline to the chain as is found on the Giant Lite/Twist and on a Xtracycle kit I know (least common), or in the rear (drive wheel) . Heinzmann makes retro fit kits that replace either the rear or front hub with a motorized hub.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllenG
    There are 3 ways to mount a motor. Like the Estelle and the trike above on the (non drive) front wheel. This approach is the most common.
    Inline to the chain as is found on the Giant Lite/Twist and on a Xtracycle kit I know (least common), or in the rear (drive wheel) . Heinzmann makes retro fit kits that replace either the rear or front hub with a motorized hub.
    I forgot that a different kit would be needed.

  19. #19
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    Mongoose Update:

    Commuting for 12 weeks now with the Mongoose electric bike from Walmart.
    Averaging about 4 days per week of use so far, so about 50 trips.
    Usually use full power going in to work with walking-effort pedalling.
    Coming home probably half the time I just use pedal power, half the time full electric +more vigorous pedalling.
    Probably this is draining the battery about 30% on a daily basis.
    I did a timed run with no pedalling today to see how the battery was holding up.

    Going in - 3.47mi, 12:58 minutes, avg speed 16.0 mph
    Coming home - 3.88, 17:05, avg speed 13.6 mph, but about 2 minutes total wasted at stop lights and train crossing.
    These figures are comparable to initial testing runs, so no definite change in performance at about 50 charges (from approx 30% drained level).

  20. #20
    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoofer
    Mongoose Update:

    Commuting for 12 weeks now with the Mongoose electric bike from Walmart.
    Averaging about 4 days per week of use so far, so about 50 trips.
    Usually use full power going in to work with walking-effort pedalling.
    Coming home probably half the time I just use pedal power, half the time full electric +more vigorous pedalling.
    Probably this is draining the battery about 30% on a daily basis.
    I did a timed run with no pedalling today to see how the battery was holding up.

    Going in - 3.47mi, 12:58 minutes, avg speed 16.0 mph
    Coming home - 3.88, 17:05, avg speed 13.6 mph, but about 2 minutes total wasted at stop lights and train crossing.
    These figures are comparable to initial testing runs, so no definite change in performance at about 50 charges (from approx 30% drained level).
    You'll be doing yourself a favor if you charge the battery at work. Battery sulfation isn't our friend.

  21. #21
    e-Biker
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    This is mine:



    Yes... I do commute with it as well as play with it.

  22. #22
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    You'll be doing yourself a favor if you charge the battery at work. Battery sulfation isn't our friend.
    "Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 (12v Battery) or 6.2 (6 volt battery). Sulfation hardens the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate Volts and Amps."

    Or more simply put, lead acid batteries like to be kept fully charged. If you run them down, you should charge them immediately, or they will gradually become less efficient and die.

    Not every municipality recycles batteries so they may end up in a land fill and eventually leach into the ground water.

    NiCad is better and will take more charges. NiMH is better for the environment.
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  23. #23
    Portland Fred banerjek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell
    Hi all!
    I commute 42 km's a day. It is possible for me to do the entire trip many days, but I'm limited in the winter by the fact that ice and snow make it dangerous to bike. As an experiment this winter I bought an electric hub for an adult tricycle.
    .
    How long have you been doing this? I'm interested in the longevity of the motors as well as their resistance/vulnerability to excessive wear and tear when riding in slop.

  24. #24
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    This is (was) my first winter with an ebike. Toronto winters are usually quite mild, but this one was terrible once it got started around the middle of January.

    I have a brushless hub. The idea being that if there are no brushes and no moving parts it will last longer. So far I have had no problems (touch wood) and there does not appear to be any drop in efficiencies as some people have suggested.

    I originally just purchased a gel cell, but they do scare me about the sulfation because of the distance I travel. I charge at work, but even still the battery is quite often flashing red by the time I get home.

    Next I bought some NiCad cells and a better charger. They seem better for winter but get really hot when under load for extended periods. The gel cell might be better in summer. I'll let you know because I'm just changing the hub onto my summer commuting bike.

    Is that a velomobile I see in your avatar?

  25. #25
    "The Veiled Male" Zorba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllenG

    Estelle City

    --A
    That looks like a (rebranded?) Biria.
    -Zorba
    "The Veiled Male"
    http://www.doubleveil.net
    Biria EZ board 3-spd

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