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  1. #1
    Senior Member karma's Avatar
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    segway of ontario

    im thinking of picking one of these e-bikes up from toronto for work.
    and was wondering if anyone has one? to buy or not to buy.

    im just looking for somthing with more meat on it that can take the bad roads in ontario. potholes for one



    http://www.segwayofontario.com/ebikes.htm#Commander
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    Umm... That's an electric scooter, not an ebike (in my opinion). It doesn't look like it can be pedaled (and even if it could, it would be a LOT of work since it weighs 172 pounds).

    I'm not slamming you, I'm just saying that this is not what I think of when I think of an ebike. If it works for you, then ok. I'd shop around, though, and look for something that is more "bicycle-like", that you can more easily pedal.

  3. #3
    Roadmaster Snobbery Club bhtooefr's Avatar
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    Looking up the specs, 172 pounds is with the charger. 121 pounds is without the charger, and that's shipping weight (so including packing materials)

    Also...

    Removable pedals for manual operation
    2011 TerraTrike Path 8
    2002 Dahon Boardwalk 1 (with 1976 F&S R 2110 2-speed kickback hub)

  4. #4
    Senior Member karma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwainedibbly
    Umm... That's an electric scooter, not an ebike (in my opinion). It doesn't look like it can be pedaled (and even if it could, it would be a LOT of work since it weighs 172 pounds).

    I'm not slamming you, I'm just saying that this is not what I think of when I think of an ebike. If it works for you, then ok. I'd shop around, though, and look for something that is more "bicycle-like", that you can more easily pedal.

    i have the schwinn izip already. this one would be for work im a super and i need somthing i can jump on and go from building to building. the other building is 7 minutes away. and i can put tools in the back.
    when im at work last thing i wana do is pedal in some of the heatwaves we have here.

    i was just wondering if anyone has one and are thay worth the money. and if thay have had any problems with them.

    your right its not really a ebike but for legal means it is i just wana take full advantage of the pilot project in ontario.

  5. #5
    ǝıd ǝʌol ʎllɐǝɹ I JeanCoutu's Avatar
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    I've read of a guy who had a Motorino from eride.ca, I can't say his experience with it made me want to get one myself...

    It's safe to expect to get pulled over riding that without a license plate on it, and for cars to get mad for going less then ~50... I think it's more reasonable to get a real scooter if it's to look like one. Electric bikes go bicycle speeds, it's better to ride something that looks like a bicycle.

    Also, consider that with 22% of Canada's population, Quebec accounts for over a third of auto suspension repairs in Canada, yet you really don't need suspension to ride a bike on roads here, it will slow you down though. Something like fatter tires on your izip and a milk crate or equivalent on a rear rack for your tools would be about as god as it gets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhtooefr
    Looking up the specs, 172 pounds is with the charger. 121 pounds is without the charger, and that's shipping weight (so including packing materials)

    Also...
    You sure? It says the power supply is 62 pounds shipped. That sounds like batteries + charger + packaing materials. At most, the charger is just a couple of pounds. 4x20Ah batteries will probably weigh 50 pounds, which gets you from 121 pounds to 172.

    karma: For scooting around between buildings at work this would probably be pretty fun. (When you said "for work" I thought you meant just for commuting not "at work".

  7. #7
    e-Biker
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwainedibbly
    Umm... That's an electric scooter, not an ebike (in my opinion).
    Legally... it's an electric bike in the Province of Ontario. Just because it looks like a scooter does not make it a scooter. In fact, it wouldn't be legal as a scooter in the U.S. or Canada.

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    Take the pedals off (which looks like the intended mode, as opposed to the 'wink-wink it's a bicycle' configuration) and it's not a bicycle. I guess that's up to the user, but if the mfr makes the pedals removable, one has to question the intent.

    Agreed, it might not be a scooter in either jurisdiction, either, but I'm not a lawyer. Doesn't Ontario require it to be "pedalable"? (I'm not Canadian, so I haven't paid that much attention to the new law in Ontario.) In the US, it would NOT be an ebike with the pedals removed.

  9. #9
    Senior Member karma's Avatar
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    the minute i get moved im going to order one to try out anyway. and i wana take a look at a few parts inside like the Dynamic Power Regeneration and a few other things. im just going to put a big plate on the back that reads e-bike and print out the paper work just in case i get pulled over.


    http://www.daymak.com/pages/tokyo.html
    Last edited by karma; 06-28-07 at 08:35 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karma
    the minute i get moved im going to order one to try out anyway. and i wana take a look at a few parts inside like the Dynamic Power Regeneration and a few other things. im just going to put a big plate on the back that reads e-bike and print out the paper work just in case i get pulled over.


    http://www.daymak.com/pages/tokyo.html
    I'm happy to see that the owners of those electric scooters being sold as electrically assisted bikes are being stopped quite regularily by police. These vehicles break both the letter and the intent of the new Ontario legislation. The legislation requires that ebikes be primarily pedalled.

    Get ready for license plates and insurance; the Ontario government will act soon to close this loop-hole.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karma
    im thinking of picking one of these e-bikes up from toronto for work.
    and was wondering if anyone has one? to buy or not to buy.
    im just looking for somthing with more meat on it that can take the bad roads in ontario. potholes for one
    http://www.segwayofontario.com/ebikes.htm#Commander
    Hilarious! In so many ways... (better to laugh through the tears eh?)

    Classic Yongkang.

    Yongkang?

    That's a city with about 1/2 million souls in Zhejiang, eastern China.

    Last time I checked Yongkang has over 300 companies pumping out electric and gas two and three-wheelers like this... Yongkang traditionally is China's "Hardware Capital". When China freed up it regs on foreign ownership, someone in Central Planning picked Yongkang for the job of mfging powered bikes. Most of these companies have been making wire brushes or pots and pans for decades or hundreds of years...

    These days, when they get an bike/scoot order, they stop making pots and pans and assemble vehicles instead.

    (Yongkang is also China's capital for amputations from industrial accidents. I tell folks to be sure and check the shipping carton for extra parts! ...but I digress...)

    Two-three companies will actually make carbon brushes, or stamp out kick stands, or extrude body parts (plastic ones I mean ) etc...

    Then they buy-sell among themselves for all the parts, when they need to assemble containers full of complete vehicles... That's why the various designs all look similar. They all share many of the same components.

    The buyers (middleman that sell to NA and Europe) spec these vehicles to a price point... eg $199US each by the container, fob Hanzhou.

    Beyond the few simple specs agreed eg 500w, 36v pba, the builders are free use their imaginations and economize wherever to maximize their profits. I have seen new Yongkang product rusting on the showroom floor. Plastic rotting in Canadian sunshine.

    Their range of product offerings certainly has expanded over the years... Some of the earliest product hit NA shores in the form of the Boreem "Dolphin" style scooters... picture here:
    http://qiubing.diytrade.com/sdp/4578...d/2330166.html

    These scoots quickly gained a rep as 30 day wonders... That was the warranty period, and about how long they would last before breaking down.

    DeafScooter bought many of these Dolphins over the years, and will attest to quality improvements as the years have gone by, although the first thing he would do with a new one was to "mod" the thing...
    http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/480

    When Kenny over at Crystalyte was asked why pictures from Yongkang etc didn't show their streets filled with these little vehicles, his reply went something like "Those things are made for export. What, do you think we (Chinese) are so stupid to buy those crappy things?"

    Get back to me if you wish to know more about that "ebike" you are considering...

    And SegwayofOntario? How amusing to see they have "broadened" their product offerings now, to include Yongkang product, and also Crocs footwear.

    Here's a search on YouTube for "Segway Ontario":
    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search

    Yah, the old guy in the CBC vids is yours truly The three CBC vids share the same stock footage (just three diff reporters) so it is amusing to see how many more times the version with the good-looking young woman have been viewed more than the other two versions <smile>

    So yeah, whatever, go ahead and buy a Yongkang "ebike" from Segway of Ontario. Personally, I'm too proud and consider them a travesty as an "ebike" design...

    Have a nice day


    Lock Hughes

  12. #12
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    Lock,
    Thank you for your insight. This info should be a 'sticky' for this forum.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell
    I'm happy to see that the owners of those electric scooters being sold as electrically assisted bikes are being stopped quite regularily by police. These vehicles break both the letter and the intent of the new Ontario legislation. The legislation requires that ebikes be primarily pedalled.

    Get ready for license plates and insurance; the Ontario government will act soon to close this loop-hole.
    I see these bikes on the streets around here all the time and the cops don't bother the riders, and the only person I've heard of being stopped had the pedals off. My thoughts are that if it gets people out of their cars, it's a good thing. It's doubtful many cyclists would consider an E pedal scooter, so they're tapping into a whole other market.

    Another person I know just bought a GWEV ebike/scooter recently to ride to work instead of driving her new Lexus to the hospital, and my mother in law owns one of these: http://gwev.com/surmdelbik.html.
    Team Mavic, winner of the 2003 Cycle to the Sun race

  14. #14
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    I guess the left coast people chill a bit more than we do. That's good that people get out of their Lexus's. But for how long? These scooters are not for the Lexus crowd. The first time there is a failure, they'll be back in their SUVs dissing ebikes to all their friends. I heard it still rains in Van. What will they do then? They don't call them '90 day bikes' for nothing.

    This is not some trend like wearing crocks! Or is it? Am I a crazy fool that thinks that ebikes are more than just a current trend?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokell
    I guess the left coast people chill a bit more than we do. That's good that people get out of their Lexus's. But for how long? These scooters are not for the Lexus crowd. The first time there is a failure, they'll be back in their SUVs dissing ebikes to all their friends. I heard it still rains in Van. What will they do then? They don't call them '90 day bikes' for nothing.

    This is not some trend like wearing crocks! Or is it? Am I a crazy fool that thinks that ebikes are more than just a current trend?
    'Green' has a whole other meaning in BC

    The local dealers here seem ok about problems and repairs, but if you live far away that could be a problem. If it rains, that's definitely not for everyone's commute, and that will never change. I don't see too many 2 wheeled vehicles on the roads when it's raining Vancouver style.
    Team Mavic, winner of the 2003 Cycle to the Sun race

  16. #16
    Senior Member karma's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Lock
    Hilarious! In so many ways... (better to laugh through the tears eh?)

    Classic Yongkang.

    Yongkang?

    That's a city with about 1/2 million souls in Zhejiang, eastern China.

    Last time I checked Yongkang has over 300 companies pumping out electric and gas two and three-wheelers like this... Yongkang traditionally is China's "Hardware Capital". When China freed up it regs on foreign ownership, someone in Central Planning picked Yongkang for the job of mfging powered bikes. Most of these companies have been making wire brushes or pots and pans for decades or hundreds of years...

    These days, when they get an bike/scoot order, they stop making pots and pans and assemble vehicles instead.

    (Yongkang is also China's capital for amputations from industrial accidents. I tell folks to be sure and check the shipping carton for extra parts! ...but I digress...)

    Two-three companies will actually make carbon brushes, or stamp out kick stands, or extrude body parts (plastic ones I mean ) etc...

    Then they buy-sell among themselves for all the parts, when they need to assemble containers full of complete vehicles... That's why the various designs all look similar. They all share many of the same components.

    The buyers (middleman that sell to NA and Europe) spec these vehicles to a price point... eg $199US each by the container, fob Hanzhou.

    Beyond the few simple specs agreed eg 500w, 36v pba, the builders are free use their imaginations and economize wherever to maximize their profits. I have seen new Yongkang product rusting on the showroom floor. Plastic rotting in Canadian sunshine.

    Their range of product offerings certainly has expanded over the years... Some of the earliest product hit NA shores in the form of the Boreem "Dolphin" style scooters... picture here:
    http://qiubing.diytrade.com/sdp/4578...d/2330166.html

    These scoots quickly gained a rep as 30 day wonders... That was the warranty period, and about how long they would last before breaking down.

    DeafScooter bought many of these Dolphins over the years, and will attest to quality improvements as the years have gone by, although the first thing he would do with a new one was to "mod" the thing...
    http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/480

    When Kenny over at Crystalyte was asked why pictures from Yongkang etc didn't show their streets filled with these little vehicles, his reply went something like "Those things are made for export. What, do you think we (Chinese) are so stupid to buy those crappy things?"

    Get back to me if you wish to know more about that "ebike" you are considering...

    And SegwayofOntario? How amusing to see they have "broadened" their product offerings now, to include Yongkang product, and also Crocs footwear.

    Here's a search on YouTube for "Segway Ontario":
    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search

    Yah, the old guy in the CBC vids is yours truly The three CBC vids share the same stock footage (just three diff reporters) so it is amusing to see how many more times the version with the good-looking young woman have been viewed more than the other two versions <smile>

    So yeah, whatever, go ahead and buy a Yongkang "ebike" from Segway of Ontario. Personally, I'm too proud and consider them a travesty as an "ebike" design...

    Have a nice day


    Lock Hughes

    well its ordered anyway. i like to make changes to the bike before it hits the road. hub controller batterys
    and whatever i dont like. it should be just fine. i already have moded shwinn izip i use to get around. this ones for work funny i dont see any pedals on it.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karma
    well its ordered should be geting it in this week.
    Ouch. Well, just so's ya know, Daymak will sell you the same errr... quality vehicle probably for a lot less money I expect (they're not paying Distillery District rents, and they do a *lot* more business than SegwayofOntario):

    http://www.daymak.ca/

    And, yah, Daymak I know has a busy repair facility on their premises...

    Maybe ask SegwayofOntario who does their repairs? I see they've climbed aboard the Veloteq bandwagon.

    Curious to know what warranty/guarantee they are offering?

    BTW, at least one of the bloggers here rides a Veloteq vehicle:

    http://ebikerider.wordpress.com/

    ...and they seem happy. Time will tell.

    tks

    Lock
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  18. #18
    Senior Member karma's Avatar
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    i changed my mind and picked one up from daymak at the last minute. there policy is to big to post
    im looking forward to pulling there product apart.

    ikoo hmm that looks like a nice bike

  19. #19
    Senior Member Lock's Avatar
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    Daymak warranty

    Looks like 60 days, if you forked over the extra 100 bux for the "PDI", and zero days if you change anything:

    Daymak Inc. offers a limited warranty coverage on manufacturer’s defective parts on its own Daymak products.
    This warranty is included in your PDI charge and covers all labor costs, during the warranty period when repaired by Daymak.

    Parts Warranty** Period (from Date of purchase):
    Frame/Swing Arm/Engine - 1 Year.*
    All other components - 90 days.**

    Manufacturer limited warranty does not cover parts including,
    but not limited to Material (seats), Fairings (plastics), brake pads,
    tires, tubes, or damage due to lack of maintenance, accident,
    misuse or abuse. Any modifications made to this vehicle voids
    the warranty. Return of defective parts at your expense
    may be requested for replacement. In some cases,
    we may ask you to take and forward a picture of
    the part(s) in question to verify warranty information.
    Once the warranty claim is approved, we will send
    the replacement part(s) by Canada Post Expedited Service.
    If the required part(s) are not in stock and must be ordered,
    an estimated delivery time will be given.
    Warranty is not extended to products sold on-line and
    does not transfer to products bought through any
    Daymak Dealer without written authorization from Daymak Inc.

    All Boxed Units, and units purchased on-line, are covered by a
    14 day parts only warranty.

    Nitro Cars are Sold as-is and have no warranty.

    *Not valid on Pocket bikes, Electric Scooters & Gas Scooters.

    **Pocket bikes, Electric Scooters & Gas Scooters
    are covered by a 60 day Warranty when
    Assembly & PDI option is chosen at time of purchase
    (extra charge applies)

    Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI)

    PDI is an inspection service for our products.
    We assemble the product and make sure it's working to industry standards and include a warranty period.

    PDI Charges

    Electric Scooters: $49.99

    All Electric Bikes: $ 99.99


    Lock

    ps... that Ikoo? Yah, the quality in design and built is evident at a glance eh? Can't kick or pedal the thing worth a darn, but it does offer some comparison versus the Yongkang vehicles... Attached here/below, a *real mans* ebike <grin>
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    I was in Shanghai and Beijing last year, I saw these e-bikes (the scooter type ones), alot of young couples were riding them. I've tried them, they are fun. I also have 3 other mtb conversions.

    http://alt.datei.cc/public/extraener...ds-2004-19.jpg

  21. #21
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    Just buy a petrol powered moped. Those things look like **** to me.

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    Karma, I am looking at buying this type of bike as well. There is a dealer near me (http://smartscooters.ca/) in Scarborough. I have a long commute and don't really want a car for it. Way too expensive! The traffic is so bad an ebike would be perfect to scoot right by it. The other nice thing about the ebike is, is that there is no plates, insurance, licence, or registration required. The bikes are built to motorcycle standards so you don't have to worry about the potholes like you would a 'bicycle' type of ebike.

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    well gang. some may have seen my other post about getting a Bionx. I ended up cancelling the work. This due to the store that was doing the work, broken promises - said it would be ready then.. oh mechanic did not show up, no i have no idea when he will be back or if the bike will be ready in a few days. If you want us to continue to work on bike you have to pay us more deposit..

    well..no..give me deposit i already paid - i will take my bike and look at other options elsewhere.
    (btw was JV Bike in Vancouver)

    I am in this thread now because a week ago i went ahead and bought a bike(scooter style) from E-ride..
    the Motorino HTh -- used it the last 2 weekends now and having a blast on it.

    I see alot of these bikes with no pedals and police dont care. Some one i know has one and was questioned by police - he just showed them the pedals and they were ok with it. Mainly they asked about a license plate..but when he showed the pedals and where they attach he was ok. They did not make him put the pedals on the bike.

    The first few days i had it i kept pedals on - but they pain in butt. get in the way. - keep hitting the back of your leg if you not careful. Had to take them off to get the bike in\out of my place and one day i just kept them off. I have had the police behind me several times since then and they did not seem concerned.

    I read the ICBC rules concerning these bikes and it basically stats that Motor Assisted Cycles (MAC) as they are called have limitations on motor - max 500w and speed 32kp/h or less. can either be pedal assist and if so motor cannot engage until bike is going 3km/h ..or can be used with accelerator only.
    The rule says it has to be CAPABLE of being pedaled by muscular power but can be used 100% with accelerator.

  24. #24
    Senior Member stokell's Avatar
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    I know all you scooter fans would like to think that is true. Good luck. Those things are not bicycles in either the letter or the intent of the law. Get ready to buy plates and insurance.

    In Ontario legislation specifically says that the primary source of power must be by muscle power. The rules are only good until October 2009. By then yopu guys will have given ebikes such a bad name they all will be banned.

    Give it up! they are scooters not bicycles!

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    well you can disagree but according to the law in BC they are considered bikes.....

    "To ride a MAC, you must:

    * be 16 years of age or older, and
    * wear a bicycle helmet

    However, MAC riders are not required to:

    * have a driver’s licence, or
    * register, license or insure their MAC "

    "n order to qualify as a MAC, certain conditions must be met. For example:

    * the electric motor must be 500 watts or less and be capable of propelling the cycle no faster than 32 km/h on level ground without pedalling
    * it must be equipped with a mechanism that either:
    1. allows the driver to turn the motor on and off, or
    2. prevents the motor from turning on or engaging before the MAC attains a speed of 3 km/h
    * the motor must disengage when the operator does at least one of the following:
    1. stops pedalling, or
    2. releases the accelerator, or
    3. applies a brake
    * it must be capable of being propelled by muscular power using the pedals, but it is not necessary to always be pedalling"

    But i going to look into seeing if they will let me register and get a plate\insurance for it. I know i can get insurance but wonder if by getting a plate does that make it a non MAC? nothing will change except the addition of a license plate. That is if they will even let me register it. Will look into it next week when i am holidays.

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