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Old 06-17-07, 01:35 PM   #1
EbikeHawaii
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Smile Ewheelie Video to the rain forest

A wheelie poping day riding up 2000 feet in elevation to the rainforest in 20 minutes on 4 amp hours of battery power.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65780878321081
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Old 06-19-07, 12:29 AM   #2
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nice run i was wondering that other video 0 to 20mph is that yours and if so do you have a picture of the
gear setup on your ebike? it shifts fast. i like the setup


cheers
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Old 06-19-07, 03:34 PM   #3
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nice run i was wondering that other video 0 to 20mph is that yours and if so do you have a picture of the
gear setup on your ebike? it shifts fast. i like the setup


cheers
Thanks.


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Old 06-20-07, 03:54 AM   #4
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hmm kinda looks like a 3 speed hub. what brand is it?
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Old 06-20-07, 04:01 AM   #5
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ahh found it i was right its a 3 speed hub with 5 speed cluster nice

sram

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=2713

this i would like to try

thanks
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Old 06-20-07, 05:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by karma
ahh found it i was right its a 3 speed hub with 5 speed cluster nice

sram

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=2713

this i would like to try

thanks
Not exactly... Replace the cassette cluster and derailer with...Two side by side BMX freewheels are machined to slide onto the FREEHUB.One goes to the pedals and the other has a 92 tooth gocart sprocket attached to it for two independent drives utilizing the 3 speed hub in common with either drives coasting or powering BOTH with the motor or pedals shifting both drive ratios at the same time.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ecyclemaui

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Old 06-20-07, 08:20 PM   #7
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0 to 24 mph.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...83645398356399
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Old 06-27-07, 03:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbikeHawaii
I've watched that film and I can't really see how the motor is connected. The film showing the 0 - 20 miles an hour burst sounds like the motor is running through the three speed gear hub, so I'm assuming you have it chain driven, rather than being a hub motor. I suppose you have a few development bikes set up differently.

Do you maybe have site where you've shown how to do this, or perhaps it is a commercial venture and you intend to sell the products. I think I heard you say something like that to the vendor on one of the films.

If it is public domain I'd like to know how you've done it all. I'd like to try myself. If it's a commerical undertaking - then very good luck to you.

You seem able to run power levels that are not allowed here unless the bike is licensed, insured, has a number plate and is treated like a moped.
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Old 06-27-07, 03:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by EvilV
I've watched that film and I can't really see how the motor is connected. The film showing the 0 - 20 miles an hour burst sounds like the motor is running through the three speed gear hub, so I'm assuming you have it chain driven, rather than being a hub motor. I suppose you have a few development bikes set up differently.

Do you maybe have site where you've shown how to do this, or perhaps it is a commercial venture and you intend to sell the products. I think I heard you say something like that to the vendor on one of the films.

If it is public domain I'd like to know how you've done it all. I'd like to try myself. If it's a commerical undertaking - then very good luck to you.

You seem able to run power levels that are not allowed here unless the bike is licensed, insured, has a number plate and is treated like a moped.
After I proved A VIABLE way for ebikes to travel the islands the governor made all ebikes illegal.The law that was in existance allowed 1500 watts and NO speed limit.Our new mayor will work with me to get the ebikes laws back on track.On the volcano climb I only used less than 750 watts at any time.
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Old 06-27-07, 04:10 PM   #10
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That's a strange way for the governor to go on given the focus of attention in reducing reliance on petro energy...

Ok. I suppose you don't give away your secrets then since you didn't address that. Of course there's no reason why you should do.

I'm surprised that the SRAM hub can handle that much power, but clearly it does. The little planetary gears are so small, you'd imagine they wouldn't do so well with high torques like your motor must develop.

Anyway Randy - well done on your developments. These are the best looking prospects I've seen yet in ebikes - though I'm certainly a neophyte in this area. Good job there.
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Old 06-27-07, 04:39 PM   #11
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Smooth shifting and a sedate riding style will be very easy on the those tiny gears. Also not full throttling where the tire could break loose and then grab. That's a great way to break any overstressed transmission. Being skinny would help too

http://www.lightfootcycles.com/customoptions.htm

"This system is complicated, with several external small bits and fragile pieces."

"NOTE: For warranty reasons, SRAM restricts the size of the low gear that can be used to drive the Dual-Drive hub; our trikes have so much compound gearing that they easily exceed the torque restrictions of the Dual-Drive hub."
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Old 06-28-07, 05:22 AM   #12
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Thanks - very interesting material. Well worth reading.
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Old 06-28-07, 09:20 AM   #13
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Hello Randy

I wasn't pleased that they booted you off Endless Sphere a while back, I am glad you have resurfaced here.

As you may be aware I am looking at doing a conversion like yours, a few questions for you, have you found the hub gear to be reliable? its a lot of torque to put through the pawls of the gears, have you had any failures? also do the BMX freewheels last very long? as again they are having to put through 100nm or so?

I see you machined the BMX freewheels so they slide on to the Freehub, what type of BMX freewheels did you use? did you just adapt a basic screw on one and then couple that to the kart sprocket?

I can get the Sram 3 speed hub so that's no problem and I can machine the BMX freewheels to fit as well, I am going to run one of my motors through a planetary gearbox so I can keep the rear sprocket size down and try and keep the noise down some, less efficient than going direct as you have done but it should still work.

On your system do you back off the throttle when changing gear up and down? and are the BMX freewheels the original ones that have 20,000 miles?

Cheers

Knoxie
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Old 06-28-07, 06:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxie
Hello Randy

I wasn't pleased that they booted you off Endless Sphere a while back, I am glad you have resurfaced here.

As you may be aware I am looking at doing a conversion like yours, a few questions for you, have you found the hub gear to be reliable? its a lot of torque to put through the pawls of the gears, have you had any failures? also do the BMX freewheels last very long? as again they are having to put through 100nm or so?

I see you machined the BMX freewheels so they slide on to the Freehub, what type of BMX freewheels did you use? did you just adapt a basic screw on one and then couple that to the kart sprocket?

I can get the Sram 3 speed hub so that's no problem and I can machine the BMX freewheels to fit as well, I am going to run one of my motors through a planetary gearbox so I can keep the rear sprocket size down and try and keep the noise down some, less efficient than going direct as you have done but it should still work.

On your system do you back off the throttle when changing gear up and down? and are the BMX freewheels the original ones that have 20,000 miles?

Cheers

Knoxie
It was LOWell who booted me from the last forum and our new friend ROBBie got me kicked of the last, with his lies.Welcome to jelous AZZES. LOL. You can use Dicta freewheels but I use a custom freewheel for the motor drive.The slow moving hub gears or the 3 speed hub have not given me any problems in over 23000 miles of hard 1600 watt speedshifts.NO FAILURES! on the whole ebike except for a blow out at 40 mph and a failed lipo pack after 8 months of abuse.

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Old 06-28-07, 06:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lowell_
Smooth shifting and a sedate riding style will be very easy on the those tiny gears. Also not full throttling where the tire could break loose and then grab. That's a great way to break any overstressed transmission. Being skinny would help too

http://www.lightfootcycles.com/customoptions.htm

"This system is complicated, with several external small bits and fragile pieces."

"NOTE: For warranty reasons, SRAM restricts the size of the low gear that can be used to drive the Dual-Drive hub; our trikes have so much compound gearing that they easily exceed the torque restrictions of the Dual-Drive hub."
The Sram hub you posted is NOT a Dual Drive hub. it was the Sram Spectro 3X7 that was redesigned three times to come up whit the Sram DD hub that is the latest version.I tested them all before any were even available to the public.Who needs a warranty if it tested out to be bulit proof carrying a 100 pound load of batteries up a 10000 ft volcano on a ebike weighing 300 lbs includung the rider that has over 22000 miles logged on the hub?
Lets see a 45 mph ebike (or ANY ebike) with a hub motor drive 7 miles each way and still do this feat in the middle of the ride on a 72 volt 12 amp hour battery of any kind.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rt=0&num=10&so
=0&type=search&plindex=2


Note No derailer and 3 speeds for pedals or motor or BOTH in common with invidual freewheeling.

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Old 06-28-07, 09:50 PM   #16
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilV
That's a strange way for the governor to go on given the focus of attention in reducing reliance on petro energy...

Ok. I suppose you don't give away your secrets then since you didn't address that. Of course there's no reason why you should do.

I'm surprised that the SRAM hub can handle that much power, but clearly it does. The little planetary gears are so small, you'd imagine they wouldn't do so well with high torques like your motor must develop.

Anyway Randy - well done on your developments. These are the best looking prospects I've seen yet in ebikes - though I'm certainly a neophyte in this area. Good job there.
Thanks!
You certainly seem to look at all things you see here as pretty objective in which you should ! glad to see that my sense has reached someone else.
I just put together my Razor 650 I got today. It looks FUNNNNNNNN!
I plan to fallow the Segway TOURS here in Lahaina LOL and see what happens!

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Old 06-29-07, 12:34 AM   #17
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Thanks for the clarification on the Sram Dual Drive. So that's the bullet proof one to get for ebike use?

My favorite Segway videos:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IVuhPwy4f1w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R_h98YLiRX0

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Old 06-29-07, 01:23 AM   #18
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There is some interesting technology being discussed here and a lot of expertise on all sides. I'm not so sure about some of the interpersonal disputes, but them aside, I've learned quite a lot here in a couple of hours of browsing.

I really like the advantages of a geared motor, but hub types would seem simple to install and convenient. I have a few bikes, but my main ride for commuting is a small Brompton clone folder. There's a guy who uses a small hub motor with a freewheel called the 'Nano'. It fits with UK power regulations which are VERY low - all of Europe's are in fact. He has a neat arrangement carrying the batteries in the detachable front luggage.

http://www.nano-motor.co.uk/brompton/


Thanks.
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Old 06-29-07, 01:35 AM   #19
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A geared hub motor would be ideal for a folder:
http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk/pages/cr...mahubmotor.htm

The Brompton probably isn't going to work with any kind of add on chain drive motors and still be able to fold up properly.
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Old 06-29-07, 03:08 AM   #20
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A geared hub motor would be ideal for a folder:
http://www.teamhybrid.co.uk/pages/cr...mahubmotor.htm

The Brompton probably isn't going to work with any kind of add on chain drive motors and still be able to fold up properly.
Hub motors do have a use.
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Old 06-29-07, 03:27 PM   #21
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Hello Randy

Thanks for the input, I think I will get the dual drive on order then, I want to try a system like yours as I think it is a great idea and always have done, I also like hubs and other kits however for overall efficiency and durability and reliability you are right, again I know we sometimes dont see eye to eye but I have always been on your side as far as your system goes.

I think its going to be a lot of fun setting a system up and trying it out and making up some videos and testing out the efficiency and trying to improve it, I like the idea of using less power to climb hills and the like and having tried the 45mph and mega power I actually prefer slower speeds with more efficiency and higher reliability, I dont think I will need more than 1500 watts at any point in order to do what I want.

Cheers

Knoxie
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Old 06-29-07, 03:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxie
Hello Randy

Thanks for the input, I think I will get the dual drive on order then, I want to try a system like yours as I think it is a great idea and always have done, I also like hubs and other kits however for overall efficiency and durability and reliability you are right, again I know we sometimes dont see eye to eye but I have always been on your side as far as your system goes.

I think its going to be a lot of fun setting a system up and trying it out and making up some videos and testing out the efficiency and trying to improve it, I like the idea of using less power to climb hills and the like and having tried the 45mph and mega power I actually prefer slower speeds with more efficiency and higher reliability, I dont think I will need more than 1500 watts at any point in order to do what I want.

Cheers

Knoxie
Actualy this MX 650 motor may do well using this dicta freewheel that is on my Razor. Combined with the Sram DD hub and used at 48 volts may be a kick.All of our roads on Maui have been closed or too crowded to travel Due to a rather large forest fire so I will be testing my new toy in town today.Yes its illegal but its the only mode of decent transportation today.

http://www.razor-help.com/mx650-dirt-rocket-parts.html

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Old 06-30-07, 02:52 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxie
Hello Randy

Thanks for the input, I think I will get the dual drive on order then, I want to try a system like yours as I think it is a great idea and always have done, I also like hubs and other kits however for overall efficiency and durability and reliability you are right, again I know we sometimes dont see eye to eye but I have always been on your side as far as your system goes.

I think its going to be a lot of fun setting a system up and trying it out and making up some videos and testing out the efficiency and trying to improve it, I like the idea of using less power to climb hills and the like and having tried the 45mph and mega power I actually prefer slower speeds with more efficiency and higher reliability, I dont think I will need more than 1500 watts at any point in order to do what I want.

Cheers

Knoxie
Are you that guy in Banbury that made those hurtling ebike videos riding on pavements? If so, you'll get unlicenced ebikes banned in Britain ya knacker! If I'm talking to the right guy - you know what our nanny state politicians are like. Ken Livingstone wants ordinary cyclists to carry number plates, road tax, driving licence and insurannce because of nutters riding through red lights. What they'd make of people driving electric bikes at speed through parks, along canal tow paths and on pavements - and at speed, I'll leave you to think about.

In a highly regulated society like ours, the freedom to ride electric assist bicycles without the interference of motor vehicle laws is a loophole just waiting to be filled when a few people behave irresponsibly.

If I'm talking to the wrong person here - please accept my profound apologies for the mistake.
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Old 06-30-07, 04:19 AM   #24
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Hi Randy

Yes would like to see some video of the bike as well, those little pocket bikes look like a load of fun.

Cheers

Knoxie
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Old 06-30-07, 04:35 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilV
Are you that guy in Banbury that made those hurtling ebike videos riding on pavements? If so, you'll get unlicenced ebikes banned in Britain ya knacker! If I'm talking to the right guy - you know what our nanny state politicians are like. Ken Livingstone wants ordinary cyclists to carry number plates, road tax, driving licence and insurannce because of nutters riding through red lights. What they'd make of people driving electric bikes at speed through parks, along canal tow paths and on pavements - and at speed, I'll leave you to think about.

In a highly regulated society like ours, the freedom to ride electric assist bicycles without the interference of motor vehicle laws is a loophole just waiting to be filled when a few people behave irresponsibly.

If I'm talking to the wrong person here - please accept my profound apologies for the mistake.

Hello

Well its nice to meet you as well, yes I made a few videos and a lot of people watch them and you are the only person I have ever heard complain to me about them, I get a lot of e-mails from people who have been inspired by them to make their own bikes and buy kits and stay out of their cars.

I dont ride my e-bikes like that every day, the idea of that video was to show how quickly you can cut through the town, you can legally ride on the towpaths and through that park and in our bus lanes? Sure I could make a 5 min video of me riding at 15mph who would watch that?

Anyway as for banning or making my bike illegal? well any bike that develops over 250W is illegal anyway? with Britains determination to be a leader in affecting climate change I can hardly see them banning e-bikes or making cyclists have insurance and number plates, somehow I dont think it likely, it is more likely that they up the power limit to something useful to encourage people to commute on them.

Red Ken hates cyclists coz he cant tax them and the traffic across London is so slow that cyclists whether electric or not can get across the city faster. Also it is a fact and was highlighted recently that cyclists that jump red lights are actually safer than ones that wait in traffic as more cyclists are killed whilst sitting waiting at lights and being side swiped by lorries and cars. I always go across to the side of traffic lights, even with power assist drivers still cut you up, its dangerous.

Anyway this is Randys thread not mine, back to the subject in hand.

Knoxie
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