lyen

Hello ALL! I recently bought an electric bike on ebay (Dash E-Cycle) folding ebike with a 180W to 250W brushed hub motor on the rear. The ebike is quite slow. I can only go up 12MPH without paddling. It comes with 3x12v 12AH SLA batteries is series (36V). I'm in the process to find ways to make it go at least 30MPH without changing the motor by adding another 3 12V SLA batteries for a total of 72V. Do you guys think the Crystalyte 20A(36V-72V) X-5 brushless motor controller [CNTRL-X5-20-] will work on brushed Motor? If so, will I be able to get > 30MPH? The bike with 3x12v battery weights 80 lbs and if I add another 3 batteries it will weight a total of 110 lbs. I'm about 170 lbs. So the total weight for bike + 72v SLA batteries + me will be about 280 lbs. Can I archive that with the new controller mentioned here + the existing 180W continuous/250W peak brushed motor? I appreciate your input. Thanks!

The7

How do you know that it has a bushed motor?
If yes, then bushless motor controller cannot be used.

jeff-o

How many wires are coming out of the motor? If there's only two, it's definitely a brushed motor and you cannot use a brushless motor controller with it.

lyen

It's a brushed motor with only 2 wires. Can anyone explain to me why I cannot use it?

EbikeHawaii

Yes you can use 2 phases of a 3 phase brushless BLDC controller to power a brushed motor but you would need to connect two of the right hall sensor wires together to make 2 of the phase wires hot when the controller is on..

The7

EbikeHawaii. Very smart way!!!
However, at only two sections (out of 6 sections) of the FETs are used in this case.
Now these 2 sections will be operating all the time while each section of the FETs is operaring 1/3 of the time ( i.e. 120 elect deg out of 360 elect deg) in a normal 3-phase BLDC controller.

So there remain some questions:
1) Which two phases should be used because the operating FETs are located in a specified section of the heat-sink? Suggest to use the FETs with the further apart.
2) Will the controller still has the same rated current because only 2 sections are used?
3) Will the controller turn off if the output is only DC?
4) What is the exact connection and precautions?

Lowell_

Actually that's a really stupid idea for the above mentioned reason. Additionally the Crystalyte controllers will time out if a hall signal is not detected within about 1 second.

EbikeHawaii

You would only get the same power because the same number of fets are used on each two brushless phases anyway.The fets dont rest on brushless controllers they just rotate and leave out 1 motor phase at a time while connecting 2 phases constantly!
When you connect any two hallsensor signal wires of the 3 hall wires to the + 4-6 volt controller signal wire two of the phase wires will be hot with all phase fets working to connect two phases.Depending how many fets your controller uses for each phase is the question ? If the controller uses a pair of fets for each phase one may rest? If this is the case the duty cycle would be 1/3 more using a brushed motor. PWM will regulate them from your throttle.This should not trip an error unless Crystalyte added something wierd.Try gluing a magnet to three of the hallsensors and make sure one is open by checking the path with a voltmeter on the sensor leads.No problems using brushed motors on all the BLDC controllers I have.
The hall sensors have 3 hall signal wires and there is a hot and a ground also to each sensor. When the hall switch trips by a magnet field the hall sensor switch will give the corisponding signal + or - back to the controller to switch a phase.If there is a stuck signal on one or two off hall signals TWO phases will remain on! Just make sure that one sensor signal wire is Off or TWO are off and ONE is on..It does not matter wihch ones.Then check the for the two hot phase wires out of the three.Make sure the wires are not touching each other.

krushnoi

Randy you need to start copywriting your advice, look here where
some guy quotes you word for word in another forum but doesn't even give you credit, like he thought of it himself. geesh...
https://visforvoltage.net/forum/bicyc...-pedelecs/1422 (look for last post)

EbikeHawaii

Yes this is a copyright infringement regardless if it has the copyright @ trademark.Most of the unique ideas I put on forums about ebike parts ect for the last 8 years many have copied and many will contionue to try and figure out.Thats the way of progress IMO.But I'm not going to devolge every detail.It makes people learn more by doing some of the figuring themselves ... with little inovative ideas that have been sucessfully tested long ago by myself..The best one was the BLDC motor I made for a boat and ebike many years before Currie came out with the first brushless motors on the market for ebike use.After Currie proved that their bldc motors were crap everyone else thought since then that brushed motors were king. That was only because they couldnt find or make a great BLDC motor and controller themselves that had any guts for the size.Hub motor makers are still in that ball park that has a rather high home run fence..
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I think I would only get the same power because the same number of fets are used on each two brushless phases anyway. The fets dont rest on brushless controllers they just rotate and leave out 1 motor phase at a time while connecting 2 phases constantly! By connecting any two hallsensor signal wires of the 3 hall wires to the + 4-6 volt controller signal wire two of the phase wires will be hot with all phase fets working to connect two phases. Depending how many fets your controller uses for each phase is the question ? If the controller uses a pair of fets for each phase one may rest? If this is the case the duty cycle would be 1/3 more using a brushed motor. PWM will regulate them from the throttle.This should not trip an error unless Crystalyte added something wierd. Try gluing a magnet to three of the hallsensors and make sure one is open by checking the path with a voltmeter on the sensor leads. The hall sensors have 3 hall signal wires and there is a hot and a ground also to each sensor. When the hall switch trips by a magnet field the hall sensor switch will give the corisponding signal + or - back to the controller to switch a phase. If there is a stuck signal on one or two off hall signals TWO phases will remain on! Just make sure that one sensor signal wire is Off or TWO are off and ONE is on..It does not matter wihch ones. Then check the for the two hot phase wires out of the three. Make sure the wires are not touching each other.
.......................

That is Edward Lyen who started this topic here answering his own question with my answer LOL at least he is learning!

lyen

Dear EbikeHawaii, I apologize for duplicate on using your words. I am really learning as a newby for ebike. I have learned 3 things as of this message. 1. Be creative when try to use someones wording as the teachers had said from school many times. 2. Never buy anything without doing enough research. 3. Define the purpose for what you need in the first place prior buying a slow ebike like I did. Anyway, I have another question to ask about this controller listing on ebay as a brushed & brushless capable controller. Do you the "Cyclone Coaster Electric Bike Controller 24v, 36v" controller would work on both type of motors since the motion feedback/hall sensor is considered optional as listed on the diagram? See below:

Here's the url from ebay:
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...2665&rd=1&rd=1

EbikeHawaii

No problem as long as you are still learniing.State what you are trying to do?
If you want to use a brushed motor a $45. brushed motor controller would be cheaper and stronger than most brushless motor controllers made for ebikes.What motor will you be using? at what voltage and amprage?
48V Controller (Model YK42-4) Yi-Yun Brand Controller
Electrical Parts - 101215
Shipping Weight: 1.5 lbs.

This controller has 3 connectors.

Rated Voltage 48 Volts.
Max Current 40 - 100 Amps.
Useable Motors: Up to 1200 Watts.
Click here to view YK42-4 Product Specifications
$45.00
https://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES
This $46. 750 watt 36 volt motor should fly at 48 volts. As long as you dont over power it all the time it shouls last for a while.
https://www.razor-help.com/mx650-dirt-rocket-parts.html

lyen

I have already ordered the Crystalyte 36-72v 20a brushless controller & it should arrive tomorrow. I have also ordered 3 12v 12ah SLA batteries. The motor currently on the Dash E-Cycle is a brushed 180W continuous to 250W peak motor. Originally I bought the cheapest electric bike I could find just get get a feel of it & something I could put in the trunk of my beetle. Now I want more speed since it is too slow way too slow riding to work. It took me 90 minutes for 12 miles a way. Therefore, I need to find ways to boost it with the lowest possible cost.

The7

Any chance of upgrading your brushed motor to brushless motor to match the brushless controller?

EbikeHawaii

Only if you baught a brushless motor.