Goatbiker

Like Franzen, I'm looking for a hub motor to help me over the hills.

Please let me establish some guideslines for discussion. I don't want an electric motorcycle, and I don't want to kick off another (or continue a) pissing contest about whose motor sucks and whose motor rules. That said...

I have a long wheelbase recumbent that I ride almost daily, including a 15 mile (rt) commute. When riding with groups or I'm just doing longer rides, I find myself avoiding certain rides and routes because of hills. They just wear me out and then I don't enjoy the rest of the ride so much. It's not that I can't ride far; In May, for my 60th I rode 70 + miles and I've done statute centuries.

I like the idea of the BionX system that enhances pedal effort; it has a strain gage in the hub that measures power and then adds to it at a pre-set level.

Carrying the extra weight is not a problem, when commuting, I carry as much as 39 pounds of gear, and the BionX 350, 36v Li-Ion system would add only 16. Like the "Stealth E-bike" I saw pictured, I can swap out the rear wheel and battery for commuting and add the motor and battery when I want them.

The system is pricey, though. Are there other systems that will do this at a lower price, or is the BionX the way to go? Is an intermittent application of throttle on a simpler system just as effective?

Are there any BionX users who can share their experiences? Any users of other systems that are being used in the same manner?

Thanks,
Tom

Lowell_

Is there a BionX dealer near you that has demo bikes? For the power level, the PL350 is a great pedal assist system. I like the fact that you just set it and pedal, and the controller takes care of the rest. Being integrated means no real upgrade path though, so as long as you're ok with that...

For less money you could do a 40X Crystalyte hub with a 20 amp controller and lithium pack, but you'd have to use a thumb or twist throttle.

The7

Direct-drive hubmotor or hubmotor with internal freewheel?
Which type of hubmotor do you prefer? Why?

Goatbiker

Thanks for the responses.

The7, I'm not familiar with different hub motors. I've read that BionX uses a freewheel, but other than that, I'm ignorant.

Lowell, There is a dealer with demo bikes about 400 miles south, Electric Cyclery in Laguna Beach, CA (https://www.electriccyclery.com/catalog/). I would like to get down there but haven't found the time. I searched Crystlalyte Kits on the net, bit I can't find any with Li power packs. Is this a mix and match thing that I would do myself?

Thanks,
Tom

The7

Bionx motor is a direct-drive hub motor (without internal free-wheel).

Goatbiker

The7,

What function does an internal freewheel perform? Do bad things happen without one?

Tom

Zeuser

You talking about my Bionx "Transformer"? LOL

Obviously if you want to go back and forth between eBike and human power only, the Bionx works very well. It only takes me about 2-3 mins to swap out both wheels and the battery. I would recommend the Bionx for that.

Yes, it is pricey. But I don't mind all that much.

Check the Bionx website, I believe they even have a photo of a recumbent with a Bionx. I know cattrike (recumbent trikes) now sells a 3 wheel tadpole recumbent with a PL350. It seems to be a popular choice.

Goatbiker

Yeah, Zeuser, your transformer is what I had in mind.

If my numbers are correct, the whole system adds 16 pounds to your bike. And it rides well when not using the motor? I ask this because I read somewhere that the magnets in the motor create enough drag that if spinning the wheel by hand on a stand, it doesn't turn more than once. I have also read there is NO drag from the motor (I am referring to the "indexing" feel of the magnets, not brush friction). Which is correct?

Tom

Zeuser

Not exactly. I can spin the rear wheel (hub motor) with the system turned off for 2 1/2 revolutions at least.

There is noticeable drag but it is feasible to ride around without power; I tried it just for kicks a month ago. It sort of feels like your towing an empty trailer in back. You know, those 2 wheeled child trailers people tow behind their bikes? An unpowered Bionx feels pretty much the same way as far as drag is concerned.

The7

I understand that you have had an Strong ebike before. Strong has free-wheeling hub. How did you compare the two with pedalling only?

Zeuser

No comparisson. Go for Bionx! The Strong is impossible to pedal without power.

But the strong is a full eBike, not an add-on kit so you don't even want to look at that for your own needs.

Oh and when I meant pedaling the Bionx without power, I had also removed the battery. I forgot to mention that.

Goatbiker

OK, are there any motors with internal freewheels that allow for drag-less riding (is that what The7 was referring to)? I am looking for help from the motor, not hindrance. And since I am looking for ease of switching wheels, I am considering a front hub motor as well. The short fork for my 20" wheel should be plenty strong.

Tom

Zeuser

Well the Bionx is pretty much a freewheeling hub just like the Strong. And you'll get some form of resistence no matter what.

Bionx is offered for 20" wheels as well. But Bionx doesn't work on front wheels. At least not with the assist. You'll need to use the thumb throttle.

I think Crystalyte makes a front hub motor that could do the trick. But I think you have to manually hold down the throttle to make it go.

Robert C

If you are using a bikeE (I am saying that because your avatar looks like a bikeE, I also have one) then you need to remember that you have gears in the rear hub, thus it is not really an option for frequent replacement. Also, on the bikeE the wheels are pretty small and this presents a problem with hub motors. With a hub motor the wheel size is important to attaining speed; of course, while it will be slower, a smaller hub motor driven wheel will have better hill climbing ability.

Goatbiker

Robert,

It's a RANS Velocity Squared, 26 rear, 20 front. And I would be willing to trade a faster rear motor for a slower front motor and a thumb throttle for if I could use Li batts and it doesnt require more work to pedal (other than a bit of weight).

Tom

The7

Yes. My AL1020 has an brushless, geared hubmotor with internal free-wheel which means the motor is no turning at all when you pedal only (without battery power). This internal free-wheel will give the least drag in pedalling.

Most non-geared hubmotors (BionX and Crystalyte) are direct-drive which means there is no internal free-wheel. The motors always turn with the drive wheels. Some of them are designed so well that they do not produce a drag-problem in pedal-only mode.

Endless_BiGH

i can peddle the 408 i have on my bike no problems without power (thats power not attached, and power attached but not in use). A freewheel system would be better though.

i use a twist throttle to ensure that my heart rate is in the desired range (i'm trying to make ebiking my cardio workout) 60-75% max HR. by watching the HRM and not the speedo / wattage i'm pushing through the motor i can guarantee i get a good workout. If i want to peak my heart rate, i just throttle back.

Btw most people here would conisder my bike to be an electric motorbike, I realise thats what you want, but with these bikes its more how you use it than what it is.

treknavigator

Questions ? Bion X dealer at sanderskd@accesscoomm.ca

bsut

Try Electro Ride Bikes and Scooters just down the road from you in Milpitas. They don't mention the PL500HS that would be my choice, but maybe they haven't updated their website lately.

15rms

Treknavigator your email link did not work for me?

Kingpin 1

Have you looked at Worldwideelectricbikes.com? They have excellent kits with a good warranty and a very good price.

treknavigator

treknavigator try sanderskd@accesscomm.ca to get in touch with me