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Old 01-15-09, 06:27 PM   #1
Kingofgreens
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Is there...?

Is there a decent hub kit that includes a battery & doesn't require a 2nd mortgage?

Or maybe someone could share their experience & let my know what NOT to buy.
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Old 01-15-09, 06:45 PM   #2
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If you want to use LiFePO4 battery, you better get ready to spend some money. It's the most expensive part of my whole bike. It alone cost 2x my 5303 motor.

Alot also depends on how big of a battery you want. The bigger, the pricier.

if you stick with Nimh, or SLA, then you can keep the price down. Keep in mind, SLA is cheap, but turns your ebike into an M1 Abrams.
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Old 01-16-09, 11:59 AM   #3
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If you want the least expensive kits available for e-bikes, with batteries included...

look at e-bay (prices starting at about $370 US for brushLESS kits)
or werelectrified.com (price starting at $365.00 for brushED kits = less power and less efficiency).

On ebay and werelectrified, the inexpensive kits with batteries included are Wilderness Energy kits. Zillions of these kits are out there and they receive few complaints about breakdowns or quality problems.

Things you won't get at this price range:

batteries that last for more than about 200 trips or 1500 miles.

batteries that can go more than 10 miles per trip (without pedaling); or batteries that are light in weight

good performance on the steepest hills or at speeds above ~20mph

better batteries MAY last for 5 or 10 years (as opposed to about 1 year) but they are priced accordingly.
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Old 01-16-09, 12:02 PM   #4
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Never mind about the e-bay cheap kits -

prices have gone up, and I don't see any of those Wilderness energy kits on e-bay today.
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Old 01-16-09, 02:39 PM   #5
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I've done a little research now.

What I've discovered is that there are 3 main components:

Battery
Motor
Controller


What I'm trying to figure out is what's the highest level of price to value ratio on each component.

I'm still only toying with the idea of an electric bike. If I do make 1 it probably won't be for at least a few months. I'd just like to know what to keep my eyes open for a deal on.
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Old 01-16-09, 03:36 PM   #6
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Is there a decent hub kit that includes a battery & doesn't require a 2nd mortgage?
In one sentence you have defined the entire problem with electric vehicles.
And now you know why that super-nifty Tesla electric sports car costs $100,000.
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Old 01-17-09, 11:46 AM   #7
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Crystalyte kits seem to be the most popular among forum members and our customers. They provide a wide variety of options, motors and price points. I haven't heard many complaints and they seem to hold up well. As far as batteries, the favorite seems to be PING LiFePO4s. They cost much more than SLA and NiMH, but the PINGs are relatively affordable compared to other LiFePO4s.

Not sure what type of SLA or NiMH to recommend, but they can be found all over...
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Old 01-17-09, 06:04 PM   #8
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Here's what I've found

http://cgi.ebay.com/1000W-48V-ELECTR...3A1|240%3A1318

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/48V-15AH-LiFePO4...3A1|240%3A1318


I've read something that says you shouldn't leave a battery like this in a state of partial charge.
Is this for extended time or a few days?
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Old 01-17-09, 09:18 PM   #9
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look at e-bay (prices starting at about $370 US for brushLESS kits)
or werelectrified.com (price starting at $365.00 for brushED kits = less power and less efficiency).
You may be right, but I wonder about the economics of low priced motors and controllers.

Brushless controllers (with six times the number of output transistors and the need for motor timing) are necessarily more complex and expensive than brushed controllers. The extra cost of a brushless controller, hall effect sensor, etc., could be spent on higher quality magnets, thinner laminations, and tighter tolerances, resulting in a brushed motor with better efficiency than a brushless one of the same cost.

I would suggest looking at reviews for specific motors (and data if it is available), instead of assuming an inexpensive brushless motor is superior to a brushed one. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I have never used a hub motor, so my musings are purely theoretical.
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Old 01-17-09, 10:36 PM   #10
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I've read something that says you shouldn't leave a battery like this in a state of partial charge.
Is this for extended time or a few days?
The partial charge thing refers to Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries. For them, an hour is too long, unless the battery is very hot (>130F).

The eBay ad you linked is for a lithium iron phosphate (LiFePo4). Partially charged states are ok with them.

That price is incredibly inexpensive. I am paying $600 for a 48v 20 ah this month, because the vendor, ping, has a reputation of honoring his 1 year warranty. This battery claims 2-year warranty, hopefully they honor it. My first LiFePo4 battery had a flaw that wasn't evident until 6 months later, while still under warranty.

There is some questionably misleading advertising on that battery ad. For instance, the phrase, POWER_BATTER_A123, implies the battery is made up of Dewault A123 LiFePo4 cells, which are excellent batteries, if not the best out there. Yet it lists the rated discharging amperage at 15 amps, which is not A123. in fact, the entire specifications column looks to be copied and pasted from a Li Ping eBay Ad. If you buy this battery, I hope I am pointing out minor grammatic flaws and the battery turns out to be a gem.

Last edited by JinbaIttai; 01-17-09 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 01-18-09, 03:19 PM   #11
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My next question is should I order a front or rear wheel kit?
I guess it depends on the bike but what are the pros & cons?

I can clearly see that a front kit would be a little easier to install but I have access to a full shop & have worked as a mechanic before so that isn't an issue for me. It also seems to me that a front kit would be easy to move to another bike quickly & simply if you decide to do so.

I can't see any big advantages to a rear kit other than rear drive & I think I'd prefer front anyway.


Do these kits work with disc brakes?
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Old 01-19-09, 01:52 AM   #12
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If the torque snaps the fork on a front hub at speed, you do a superman impression over the handlebars. If the dropouts snap on a rear hub, you skid to a stop on the dropouts, if you can keep it upright.
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Old 01-19-09, 06:33 AM   #13
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did that last fall thank god i had a rear wheel, when it spun out it turned sidways and jamed in the rear dropouts. i just pulled a large skid. broken spokes and a new wire harness.
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Old 01-19-09, 11:05 AM   #14
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did that last fall thank god i had a rear wheel, when it spun out it turned sidways and jamed in the rear dropouts. i just pulled a large skid. broken spokes and a new wire harness.
Yea, but your bike is awesome.

You run like what?..10,000 watts through a motor? Something's bound to break sometime.
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Old 01-19-09, 09:25 PM   #15
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I personally have a front hub, but would however recommend the rear one as well. when riding at higher speed, the front wheel spins out hen going uphill or over large bumps, and it wears out the tires faster (at least in my experience).
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Old 01-20-09, 11:20 AM   #16
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Eventually, I will put my hub motor on Craigslist probably. Spend all that money on a battery and have it croak in a year is an expense I do not need! I need a whole wheel for the Pod first, and I am not looking forward to that.
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